Ireland 2021/22

First topic message reminder :

The squad will be named in about 4 weeks time so that should give players the chance to play their way in or out of the squad.


I think this season will see a number of players breaking into the squad or forcing their way up the pecking order. A few that spring to mind are Dan Sheehan, Hume, Coombes, Casey, Harry Byrne..


Porter to loosehead gives that position a boost although Furlong becomes even more important.
Sheehan has looked very good. Darts seem good and he's good around the pitch.


Doris, Conan and Coombes battling for 6 and 8. Good options. Can Leave get back to near his best.


Casey is pushing hard and there's also the emergence of Doak. All of a sudden a traditional problem position is looking strong.


Carbery has been very poor in the first 2 games. He has to get a grip. Harry Byrne is the hot new talent but I don't think the man can stay fit. Ben Healy could be in with a shout.


I'd have Hume ahead of Ringrose now. Henshaw leading the 12s.


Options in the outside backs also but nearly every option has a question mark around them. Lowes defence, Stockdale errors, Earls' age etc. I think Keenan is first choice 15.

I see Kearney and his iron lung are being wheeled out for the Barbarians - good for him and I really hope that he enjoys the day. It will be his last game before formal retirement.

His winning record is insane thanks to playing throughout Ireland's golden modern era. 4 Six Nations titles, 2 Grand Slams, at least 2 Champions Cups etc.

George Carlin wrote:I see Kearney and his iron lung are being wheeled out for the Barbarians - good for him and I really hope that he enjoys the day. It will be his last game before formal retirement.

His winning record is insane thanks to playing throughout Ireland's golden modern era. 4 Six Nations titles, 2 Grand Slams, at least 2 Champions Cups etc.

Open to correction;
Club
European Rugby Champions Cup (4): 2009, 2011, 2012, 2018
Celtic League/Pro12/Pro14 (6): 2008, 2013, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020
European Challenge Cup (1): 2013

Country
Six Nations Championship (4): 2009, 2014, 2015, 2018
Grand Slam (2): 2009, 2018

Lions
Lions tours (2): 2009, 2013
Series Wins (1): 2013
Individual

A European Player of the Year, Leinster Rugby Player of the Year, IRUPA Players' Player of the Year winners.... and a partridge in a pear tree.

Looks like Joe Schmidt is being lines up for a coaching role with the ABs. He is to replace departing Grant Fox on the selection panel.

Some measured assessment of where I think some players at Ulster are with respect to future Ireland representation.

There are three players I feel have played at a level in recent matches to warrant inclusion from an experience point of view. I am not saying that any of these players should play a single minute in the upcoming 6N. If they continue playing well and impress in camp realistic options for a summer tour
- Doak, Marcus Rea, Lowry

As to playing in the 6N two players must be in contention.
Hume is the form 13 and must be pressing Ringrose hard for 13.
Hume should play against Italy alongside Henshaw.

Timoney is now very much in the frame . Not saying a starter but alongside
Conan, Doris, VdF and POM he is one of the leading backrowers in my book.
Again give Timoney a game against Italy


These are small, safe and sensible moves to widen the squad size with sufficient International experience for a World Cup

Hume is really pushing hard alright. What's really good to see is that Ringrose is playing some of his best rugby and Hume is still putting pressure on. Usually with Ireland we have an established player losing form before the next man up overtakes him. Hume is adding real depth to the centres.

There's a few more in the Ulster squad, I'd like to see getting some experience/game time.

Both wings - Balacounne and McIlroy.
Centre - definitely Hume must get a start
Backrow - Timoney and Rea good shouts
Locks - Alan O'Connor should at least replace Ultan Dillane as a back-up. Funny feeling about whether James Ryan is going to last the course.

Conversely, I think rob Herring has had his day and we need other provincial hookers coming through alongside Kelleher and Sheehan.

I left Baloucoune out because he has to some extent made it and is possibly going to miss the 6N through injury

McIlroy is getting better certainly but there are only a handful of players taken along for the experience - I thought 3 was enough.
Have to give the other provinces a look in
Seriously I would take a 7/8 along for the ride - just to see what is possible and also for the coaches to take a closer look

Lock is a strange position for Ireland
We have three stand out - Henderson, Ryan and Beirne
We have three prospects - Baird, Izzy, Ahern (I going on other opinions here as I have hardly seen him play)
After that the cupboard is a bit bare, especially with Dillane leaving.
O'Connor is as a good as anyone else and he has a work rate second to none.
He will never be a regular but his commitment is such that he deserves to retire with a handful of caps to his credit.
Many a lesser player has done so (notably foreign players just for the sake of tying them to Ireland)

As per usual I would feel that Henshaw is always 50/50 on getting injured so Hume would definately be in with a shot of starting. If everyone is fit the 4 centres will be Henshaw, Aki, Ringrose and Hume.

Henshaw and Ringrose v England and France and Aki & Hume v Italy.  For Scotland and Wales would mix so Ringrose and Aki and Henshaw and Hume.

Hume looks like the best Centre currently at Provincal level but needs to be tested at the international level that usually gives a few things to work on.

Happy new year to all.


Hume looks one of the most likely breakthrough players alright. I hope he is given a chance.


I don't think AOC, Rea or McIlroy are Andy Farrell type players. Not athletic enough I'd say. McIlroy lacks a bit of top end speed I'd say but looks a classy player.


From a Munster perspective I think Hodnett and Ben Healy have a chance in the short term. Healy has a chance now so it's up to him to take it.


I'm just hoping to see a continuation of the new attacking style.

I was thinking of the 9/10 for Ireland in the 6ns.

Will it be a continuation of Murry 9 Sexton 10?

Or will it be Gibson park at 9 and a other at 10?

Murray, Madge.

I’ll ignore the A other.

RiscaGame wrote:Murray, Madge.

I’ll ignore the A other.

cheers for that

Any chance of Ireland moving games to England if these ridiculous crowd restrictions for outdoor events continue? It would be absolute madness to play the 6 nations games with only 5k in attendance.

Their statement today would suggest that at the minute they are planning for it to be as normal by the 6 nations.

They also have the option to move games north as well if they didn't want to go the whole hog and move to England.

They could do 18-19k in Kingspan, not amazing but better than 5k, it doesn't look like that is going to be restricted by the executive.

neilthom7 wrote:Their statement today would suggest that at the minute they are planning for it to be as normal by the 6 nations.

They also have the option to move games north as well if they didn't want to go the whole hog and move to England.

They could do 18-19k in Kingspan, not amazing but better than 5k, it doesn't look like that is going to be restricted by the executive.

Good luck to them with that, nothing the government has done in the last 2 years gives me any confidence that will happen. We'd easily get 90k in Wembley and we should defiantly be looking at that as an option.

I dunno if they would get 90k in Wembley tbh.

They would get good numbers but 90k, I dunno about that especially not as it would be changed on pretty short notice and in this climate too with people being less willing to travel etc.

If they moved them north, could they play at one of the larger GAA grounds?

They would have to agree with the GAA but there really aren't any major GAA grounds in the north that are much bigger than Kingspan and therefore would probs be easier for them to just use the Kingspan and not have to agree anything or give over any profits to the GAA.

Casement Park was one they could have used but all the stuff round that means I don't think it is even in service at the minute.

Theres one in Newry which I think is 20k but then they would have to pay the GAA so would probs be better off with slightly less crowd but keeping all the money.

Assuming that they don't go to England or do it in the Aviva off course

There are no credible GAA grounds in Northern Ireland.
If a game came north it would be played at Ravenhill.
The capacity is about 15000 due to the 75% standing limit on the terraces.

Casement Park isn’t even a building site it is waste/derelict ground.
Newry capacity is 18,500 not 20,000.
Armagh has a similar capacity.
That makes them only marginally bigger than Ravenhill.
All other GAA grounds in the north are smaller than Ravenhill

This moving to England for the 6ns, If for example Ireland play their first home game at Wembley, will Webley be their ground for all the home games?

And how much of the revenue from the game will Ireland get?

Anyone know when the 6N squad will be named?

Named tomorrow, good news today in that it looks like the restrictions on sporting capacities will be removed in time for 6 nations hopefully

Squad to be announced at 4pm. Here's the 37 I'd pick:

LH: Porter Healy Kilcoyne
Hooker: Kelleher Herring Sheahan
TH: Furlong Bealham O'Toole
Lock: Beirne Henderson Ryan Baird Prendergast
Flanker: vdF Doris POM Timoney
8: Conan Coombes

SH: JGP Casey Murray
OH: Sexton Carty Frawley
Centre: Henshaw Ringrose Aki Hume
Wing: Baloucoune Earls Conway Lowe Larmour
FB: Keenan Lowry

Most of the squad picks itself but to go over a few of the talking points... The strength of depth at prop is slowly becoming a concern again, in particular I'd like to see Munster producing some new candidates there soon. However hooker is suddenly looking very strong given it was a bit of a weakness in my eyes at the last RWC.

Dillane would likely be amongst my second row selections but with his impending move overseas I think Cian Prendergast is an exciting talent that could take his spot or alternatively Thomas Ahern.

Scrum half we have a whole host of good options. I was tempted to leave Murray out altogether especially since Marmion has been back to his best form at Connacht. Nathan Doak's time is definitely coming but I don't think it's necessary to rush him into the squad just yet. I don't like it but Cooney's ship has sailed by the looks of things by cause of Sexton's insistence apparently.

Have been a big fan of Carty for a while now and hope Farrell trusts him to start presuming Sexton will probably not be available for all 5 fixtures. Carbery would be my third choice if fit but I think Frawley poses an interesting option who can play a second playmaker role at 12 as well and I'd like to see him tested at a higher level. I'm yet to be convinced by Harry Byrne, I just don't think Billy Burns or Ross Byrne are really capable of challenging Sexton however we may want to see Ben Healy capped soon in order to ward off Scotland's advances for him.

Sticking with Henshaw and Ringrose as the 1st choice midfield but Hume merits at least one start. If the Northampton game is anything to go by Baloucoune is our best winger at the moment. Lowe did well in the Autumn but I'm not completely sold on his defence yet and I think he's competing with Earls and Conway for the 11 spot. Similar to Hume Lowry should be given a go in the Italy fixture. Zebo hasn't featured enough for Munster to be considered albeit the reduced number of games in the URC hasn't helped him or indeed  whole host of other Irish players.

IRELAND Guinness Six Nations Squad 2022
Backs (17)
Bundee Aki (Connacht/Galwegians) 33 caps
Robert Baloucoune (Ulster/Enniskillen) 2 caps
Joey Carbery (Munster/Clontarf) 27 caps
Jack Carty (Buccaneers/Connacht) 10 caps
Craig Casey (Munster/Shannon) 4 caps
Andrew Conway (Munster/Garryowen) 27 caps
Keith Earls (Munster/Young Munster) 96 caps
Jamison Gibson Park (Leinster) 12 caps
Mack Hansen (Connacht) uncapped
Robbie Henshaw (Leinster/Buccaneers) 53 caps
James Hume (Ulster/Banbridge) 1 cap
Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD) 16 caps
Jordan Larmour (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 30 caps
Michael Lowry (Ulster/Banbridge) uncapped
Conor Murray (Munster/Garryowen) 92 caps
Garry Ringrose (Leinster/UCD) 37 caps
Johnny Sexton (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 101 caps CAPTAIN

Forwards (20)
Ryan Baird (Leinster/Dublin University) 6 caps
Finlay Bealham (Connacht/Buccaneers) 18 caps
Tadhg Beirne (Munster/Lansdowne) 25 caps
Jack Conan (Leinster/Old Belvedere) 22 caps
Gavin Coombes (Munster/Young Munster) 2 caps
Caelan Doris (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 12 caps
Tadhg Furlong (Leinster/Clontarf) 52 caps
Cian Healy (Leinster/Clontarf) 112 caps
Iain Henderson (Ulster/Academy) 65 caps
Rob Herring (Ulster/Ballynahinch) 23 caps
Ronan Kelleher (Leinster/Lansdowne) 16 caps
Dave Kilcoyne (Munster/UL Bohemians) 45 caps
Peter O’Mahony (Munster/Cork Constitution) 79 caps
Tom O’Toole (Ulster/Ballynahinch) 2 caps
Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD) 40 caps
James Ryan (Leinster/UCD) 40 caps
Dan Sheehan (Leinster/Lansdowne) 2 caps
Nick Timoney (Ulster/Banbridge) 2 caps
Kieran Treadwell (Ulster/Ballymena) 3 caps
Josh van der Flier (Leinster/UCD) 35 caps

Development Player
Cian Prendergast (Connacht)

The Ulster guys Hume, Baloucoune and Lowry deserve their inclusion. Lowry really is fun to watch, Mack Hansen is certainly exciting to watch too. Hope Lowry and Hansen get their debuts. Think Hansen was involved in the November squad but didnt get capped.

Was James Lowe dropped?

Collapse2005 wrote:The Ulster guys Hume, Baloucoune and Lowry deserve their inclusion. Lowry really is fun to watch, Mack Hansen is certainly exciting to watch too. Hope Lowry and Hansen get their debuts. Think Hansen was involved in the November squad but didnt get capped.

Was James Lowe dropped?

Lowe apparently got a muscle injury training with Leinster yesterday. Interesting that it would drop him out of the 6N squad entirely.

Treadwell is a pleasant surprise from an Ulster perspective

Is Frawley injured? Cracking player I think. He played for Leinster on Saturday.

Maine man wrote:Is Frawley injured? Cracking player I think. He played for Leinster on Saturday.

I don't believe so, Hume takes that centre spot, Lowry takes Lowes spot, Treadwell takes Molonys spot, Carty takes Harry Byrnes from the autumn international squad? That's pretty much it isn't it (as Hansen was in the Autumn squad so isn't new).

Personally I would have him in the squad ahead of Carberry due to Carberry being injured. I thought Hume was in the autumn squads?

Maine man wrote:Is Frawley injured? Cracking player I think. He played for Leinster on Saturday.

I think it comes down there are 4 spots and Frawley isn't good enough to displace the two at Leinster and Hume and Aki are key players in their teams.  I think it's a case of improvements in the other teams means in some positions not making the Leinster team has consequences.

Peaking too soon .

Seriously though, what is it with Farrell and Cooney / McCloskey?

They are both injured but I don’t think it would make any difference.

Cooney has given up on Ireland, and I suspect McCloskey is close to coming to the same conclusion.
Neither has been given a fair crack of the whip and have been treated shabbily.

For Cooney I suggest you ask Sexton who I’m convinced has black balled him from the Ireland set up.
Sexton runs the show for Ireland, Cooney likes to do the same for Ulster.
There isn’t room for two leaders on the same pitch.

Maine man wrote:Personally I would have him in the squad ahead of Carberry due to Carberry being injured. I thought Hume was in the autumn squads?

Frawley has to play 10 to get ahead of Carberry.

As someone said Carberry’s stock rises when he isn’t playing.
Cruel but there is an element of truth in it.

I see some Munster fans are expressing concern about Healy not getting into the squad.
Apparently he is qualified for Scotland as well and if he doesn’t make the breakthrough in Ireland, Scotland could come looking

geoff999rugby wrote:They are both injured but I don’t think it would make any difference.

Cooney has given up on Ireland, and I suspect McCloskey is close to coming to the same conclusion.
Neither has been given a fair crack of the whip and have been treated shabbily.

For Cooney I suggest you ask Sexton who I’m convinced has black balled him from the Ireland set up.
Sexton runs the show for Ireland, Cooney likes to do the same for Ulster.
There isn’t room for two leaders on the same pitch.

There is another train of thinking that might suggest that Cooney struggled a bit with authority earlier in his career. He is probably a complicated character himself not unlike Sexton.

I think that is true but the Cooney who has been playing for Ulster has been fine and should have got a fair crack of the whip

I agree Geoff, based on his form and ability he definitely did deserve more opportunities.

Im not sure I can remember a time when all four provinces have been playing so well. Ulster and Connacht in particular are a joy to watch, I think honestly I have begun to look for their fixtures first on champions cup weekends as their games tend to be most exciting. Think there is a really great balance to this Ulster side, wow they have some good players. Even Munster probably aren't their best at the moment and may be struggling a bit to find their identity but are still top of the table with three wins from three and have some absolutely super players. Leinster also look very strong again so hopefully it will translate into a good six nations.

Im hopeful that we will be champions this year.

So fullbacks;

Keenan, the incumbent, 16 caps (5 tries)
Lowry, the new kid
Zebo, 35 caps (9 tries) [wise old head with experience that can be called upon]
Conway, 27 caps (13 tries) [has Test experience but not in the FB position much, mature enough]
Henshaw 52 caps (8 tries) [the irish rugby website calls him centre/fullback, he is not a fullback, should not start at fullback and should only be back in that position if injuries in a game necessitates it]

Open to correction on all this, between now and the next RWC we'll have 2 sets of 6N games, two summer trips, 1 autumn internationals (the second AIs will be more conditioning for rwc itself right?). So about 21-22 Tests.

FB is an awkward position, with bench minutes spread over the back line (as opposed to direct cover for front rows, SH, OH).

Injuries as always can scupper many plans.

Keenan has been a surprise at Test level, quietly becoming an automatic name on the team sheet. 16 caps is relatively little, early days, if he starts everything from now to the RWC he'd have c.38 caps which would be a good, young, experienced set of hands at the back going into the competition. However that would mean little cover behind him.
Personally I think if Lowry is to be valid option then he needs to get min. 10 caps between now and the RWC. He doesn't get to that by being given the Italy game in the 6Ns and cameo roles in AIs between now and the RWC. I think he needs to get 3 starts in this 6Ns (with Keenan the other two), they both need the battle scars from the trip to NZ. That way (26 and 12 caps going into a rwc). What are peoples thoughts?

I'd like to see Lowry given a run but I don't think he will besides the Italy match. Same goes for Hume, Coombes, Hansen etc. Farrell stuck with his side throughout November, even against Argentina. If that's an indication of what's to com then we know the team already for 4 matches at least.

I see vDF is a doubt

In case Andy Farrell is reading, Timoney was outstanding against Clermont

geoff999rugby wrote:I see vDF is a doubt

In case Andy Farrell is reading, Timoney was outstanding against Clermont

Knowing Farrell, he'll probably play POM at 7 if VDF is out.

That's my fear

So looking like Henderson and VDF out for the opener against Wales. Not sure if there's anyone else... Sexton?

Farrell (when interviewed today) said only Henderson is the doubt, as he expects VDF, Furlong and Ryan to be training by the end of the week.

Not sure if people saw the comments by Farrell on needing A games.

I think it would be good to develop players and help in the step up.

Wouldn't mind 3 A games in the AIs with one played in Belfast, Galway and Limerick with half the players from to local province.  Helps keeps the players match fit and gets some extra income.

Wouldn't mind a T2 nation doing 2 tests against the A team before a final game v Ireland to get them ready.

PROP (3)
Ivan NEMER (Benetton Rugby, 3 caps)
Tiziano PASQUALI (Benetton Rugby, 21 caps)
Cherif TRAORE (Benetton Rugby, 12 caps)

HOOKER (3)
Epalahame FAIVA (Benetton Rugby, 1 cap)
Gianmarco LUCCHESI (Benetton Rugby, 8 caps)
Giacomo NICOTERA (Benetton Rugby, uncapped)

SECOND ROW (2)
Niccolò CANNONE (Benetton Rugby, 15 caps)
Federico RUZZA (Benetton Rugby, 25 caps)

BACK ROW (6)
Toa HALAFIHI (Benetton Rugby, uncapped)
Michele LAMARO (Benetton Rugby, 10 caps) – captain
Sebastian NEGRI (Benetton Rugby, 36 caps)
Giovanni PETTINELLI (Benetton Rugby, 1 cap)
Braam STEYN (Benetton Rugby, 46 caps)
Manuel ZULIANI (Benetton Rugby, uncapped)

SCRUM-HALF (1)
Callum BRALEY (Benetton Rugby, 12 caps)

OUT-HALF (2)
Giacomo DA RE (FEMI-CZ Rovigo/Benetton Rugby, uncaped)
Leonardo MARIN (Benetton Rugby, uncapped)

CENTRE (3)Juan Ignacio BREX (Benetton Rugby, 8 caps)
Luca MORISI (Benetton Rugby, 36 caps)
Marco ZANON (Benetton Rugby, 7 caps)

BACK THREE (3)
Montanna IOANE (Benetton Rugby, 9 caps)
Tommaso MENONCELLO (Benetton Rugby, uncapped)
Edoardo PADOVANI (Benetton Rugby, 30 caps)

Not considered because of injury
Riccardo Favretto (Benetton Rugby) Simone Ferrari (Benetton Rugby)

So Benetton basically are missing their whole scrum and nearly all the backups.

Must have posted on the wrong thread. Obviously Italy are trying to copy Ireland

Fair bit of talk on the Leinster site that Frawley should be at 10
because neither Bryne is good enough.
Anger after a bad defeat but they have a point