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Ireland 2021/22

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Post by profitius Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:15 am

First topic message reminder :

The squad will be named in about 4 weeks time so that should give players the chance to play their way in or out of the squad.


I think this season will see a number of players breaking into the squad or forcing their way up the pecking order. A few that spring to mind are Dan Sheehan, Hume, Coombes, Casey, Harry Byrne..


Porter to loosehead gives that position a boost although Furlong becomes even more important.
Sheehan has looked very good. Darts seem good and he's good around the pitch.


Doris, Conan and Coombes battling for 6 and 8. Good options. Can Leave get back to near his best.


Casey is pushing hard and there's also the emergence of Doak. All of a sudden a traditional problem position is looking strong.


Carbery has been very poor in the first 2 games. He has to get a grip. Harry Byrne is the hot new talent but I don't think the man can stay fit. Ben Healy could be in with a shout.


I'd have Hume ahead of Ringrose now. Henshaw leading the 12s.


Options in the outside backs also but nearly every option has a question mark around them. Lowes defence, Stockdale errors, Earls' age etc. I think Keenan is first choice 15.
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Post by Brendan Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:30 pm

Heard one of the talking heads saying that when judging players it goes something like this to determine how good a player is when picking the Irish team

1. Has played regularly for Ireland (POM, Healy)
2. Champions Cup games
3. Making the Leinster team
4. Inter Pros
5. URC

Its why players like Darge make the Scottish squad while Doak doesn't make the Irish.

New Zealand call up players once they are good enough to make their SR team.  They don't call up second string players who are struggling to make their provincial sides. BB didn't just get an AB call up because he had potential. He had to prove he could do it at the lower level.  Look how long it took Bernie to get in the team even though he was the best 6 in the league before joining Munster.

Murrary and Carbry are not the best players in their position in Munster and are living on past glory.  If they aren't good enough to make Munster currently they should be proving themselves there. Cooney should have been in the Irish squad but instead we got stuck with a poor Murrary trying to play himself into form for too long.

Same with Harry Byrne.  Loads of potential has not shown any of it.  He is clearly 3rd choice at Leinster yet he is in the squad.  The two players ahead of him have a high chance of picking up an injury.  If one gets injured in the Japan game do we then put Harry on the bench v the ABs or call up a more experienced 10.

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Post by Collapse2005 Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:19 am

thebandwagonsociety wrote:And the team is announced (off of RTE);

Ireland: Hugo Keenan; Andrew Conway, Garry Ringrose, Bundee Aki, James Lowe; Johnny Sexton, Jamison Gibson-Park; Andrew Porter, Rónan Kelleher, Tadhg Furlong; Tadhg Beirne, James Ryan,Caelan Doris, Josh van der Flier, Jack Conan.

Replacements: Dan Sheehan, Cian Healy, Finlay Bealham, Iain Henderson, Peter O'Mahony, Conor Murray, Joey Carbery, Keith Earls.


I guess Gerry has the better connections....

Great team, cant argue with the first 15.

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Post by sensisball Fri Nov 05, 2021 6:10 am

Good looking team apart from Lowe. He got found out defensively last 6 nations and scoring tries for the Leinster machine doesn't really afford much testing of his defensive skills. At the top level he does not possess either a great change of pace or massive power to compensate for this lack of pace. I find it hard to believe that there aren't better wingers playing for Ulster for Connaught who would do a better job.
Why has Ryan missed the last couple of Leinster games, was it concussion or another injury?

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Post by sensisball Fri Nov 05, 2021 6:22 am

I also find Lowe's hair really annoying. I know that shouldn't be a thing but if you have to stop 5 times a game to tie your 1970's heavy metal hair back it is surely interrupts your concentration? Maybe that is why he ends up out of position in defence. He could try getting a short back and sides, or even the fluffy mullet that seems de rigour with New Zealand players at the moment.

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Post by Brendan Fri Nov 05, 2021 6:33 am

Against Scarlets Lowe looked to be out of position on a few of their attacks.

When is Stockdale expected to be back.

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Post by Collapse2005 Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:05 am

Yeah I say its a case of last chance saloon for Lowe, he has plenty of talent he just needs to show now he can be as solid in defense as his team mates.

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Post by Brendan Sat Nov 06, 2021 9:46 am

What are we look8ng at for the Japan game.

Both last played in the Summer with a B team essential beating them in their first game up v the 3rd game for Japan.

Japan looked good against Oz but still not sure where the true Oz standard is.  I think SA played the wrong tactics more than Oz being really good.

I think we need to see every player have a good game for Ireland or get benched next game or dropped.  Main focus on Lowe, (defence) Kelleher (throwing), Conway (overall) Gibson-Park (game management)

I want to see Sexton get no injury at all or we will spend the whole week debating age. When Carbary comes on I want him running and going places or opening gaps for others rather than going lateral or always giving it to a smasher.

I am probably overconfident but I want a 20pts win with a solid defence and go forward ball that doesn't  require over reliance on the pack or Aki.

Finally every time the ball goes wide or Japan I don't want to see it look like Japan will run it in and we are scrambling to get across.  Boring and organised will do.

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Post by profitius Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:04 am

Very good so far. Whatever about the 15 on the pitch, we need to see a fast paced game and that's what we're getting.
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Post by Unclear Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:08 pm

They all played well, to a good game plan.  Just need to repeat next week, but I think the opposition will be a bit stronger.

I still think there was an opportunity missed to try some new players and give Carberry a chance to build some confidence, but it has to be best preparation for next week if not next year.

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Post by Brendan Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:42 pm

Good Result and seems I was to negative with by 20pts prediction.

Having watched some of the NZ games the plan has to be hard and fast in defence and a solid mix of high balls, running and up the jumper stuff but random as can be.  If we do the usual plays of everyone knowing when we are going to kick we will be picked off.  Going off the Tonga, Oz, USA games don't play loose you will only lose, pick your moments and take your points.  Even in the much maligned SA 1 game NZ only won the game with a late pen as they struggled to break down an organised defence (Like they did today)

In most of the games NZ bench results in about 20extra points in the last 20.  Think Ireland have a strong enough bench to keep the standard up for the 80.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:19 am

Well for a while I was saying that Farrell should pick mostly Leinster players and utilise Leinster tactics…

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Post by Unclear Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:37 am

That’s great until we meet a Wales team made up of mainly Dragons players

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Post by Collapse2005 Sun Nov 07, 2021 1:02 pm

Gatland probably feels quite stupid for not picking Sexton for the Lions tour. Still easily the best OH in the NH. Lions would have won the series with Sexton leading the backs.

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Post by George Carlin Sun Nov 07, 2021 4:33 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Gatland probably feels quite stupid for not picking Sexton for the Lions tour. Still easily the best OH in the NH. Lions would have won the series with Sexton leading the backs.
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Post by Pot Hale Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:39 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Gatland probably feels quite stupid for not picking Sexton for the Lions tour. Still easily the best OH in the NH. Lions would have won the series with Sexton leading the backs.

Completely agree. Gatland will never learn.
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Post by thebandwagonsociety Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:23 am

A very professional display by Ireland over the weekend. Some nice lines of running and passing out of contact (and just before contact too). Pace of play was quite a positive tempo for most of the game too. It showed that we were a level above Japan in the current rankings when playing with our seasoned veteran players. It showed that 12 out of 15 from a single provincial side can step up and play similar at Test level. It knocked the cobwebs off, got rid of the rustiness for the upcoming matches.

We haven't invested minutes in our squad depth. We didn't show that our 'rotated' side can take care of business during the RWC pool stages against the lesser sides. We didn't give minutes to enough of the inter-pro combinations that we might have to field in the 6Ns and RWC.

Farrell has taken this match to be a warm-up for the NZ game, so if that's the risk he wants to take as a manager then that's decision he'll be judged on. Here's hoping for strong performance next weekend.

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Post by geoff999rugby Tue Nov 09, 2021 12:24 pm

Well I complete disagree - that game was a complete waste of time, against a totally undercooked and poor Japan side.

It was an ideal opportunity to see what the likes of Casey, Baloucoune, McCloskey, Coombes, Healey could do.

Instead we played the tried and tested and learnt the sweet square of nothing.

We are walking into another World Cup failure where beneath the first XV, in most positions, we have minimal experience at International level.
I think Farrell is the worst Ireland coach in the 21st century (not considering Bradley or Kiss stand in rolls)

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Post by Collapse2005 Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:08 pm

I think we could trash NZ on Saturday and some people still wouldnt be happy, nature of the beast.

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Post by geoff999rugby Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:10 pm

Obviously directed at me.

To be clear if we get within a score of NZ I will be delighted.

My point was a specific one.
Are you denying We played safe and picked known quantities rather than give 2 or 3 fringe players a run out in a game we were always going to win

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Post by profitius Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:43 pm

At least the style is evolving. That's the big one for me. That was some of the best attacking rugby ireland has played in the pro era. We will see if they can replicate it against NZ. It certainly makes for a more exciting game.
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Post by Collapse2005 Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:32 am

I hope the game v NZ isnt ruined by a red card or something.

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Post by mikey_dragon Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:26 am

Collapse2005 wrote:I hope the game v NZ isnt ruined by a red card or something.

It probably won't be, as the last time NZ committed red card offences against Ireland they got away with it.

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Post by asoreleftshoulder Wed Nov 10, 2021 8:00 am

That game was reffed by Peyper. He's very lenient on violent play, Luke Pearce is much better. Probably the best around at the minute imo.

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Post by George Carlin Wed Nov 10, 2021 8:57 am

Most of my Irish friends are confident of a win here given the home advantage and how well the provinces are playing. The NH expects. No pressure or anything.
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Post by asoreleftshoulder Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:49 am

I'm hopeful of a win, never confident v NZ but I think 4/1 is a great bet and I'll be having a nibble at that price.

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Post by profitius Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:15 pm

Tbh I don't know what to expect. The team looked like they were really enjoying themselves against Japan. Apart from the summer tests it's a long time since an ireland side looked like they were enjoying themselves on the pitch. That's always dangerous for any opposition.


New Zealand are no ordinary opposition though and we all know what they can do. I think 4/1 is a good price but maybe hedge your gets around the 60 min mark if you can, if ireland are in a good position. The kiwis have been playing together for months against quality opposition so they will be battle hardened.


It should be interesting to see how they react if ireland do take the lead. They're expected to win and have young players who might not have been in that kind of situation. Losing to South Africa is different as they're the world champions and traditional rivals while ireland is not seen as rivals and they hate losing to northern hemisphere sides.


Ireland will play a tighter game but I hope they don't go back to old habits. They still need to play a bit. It should be a good game.
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Post by Brendan Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:26 pm

I think if we fight hard at the breakdown they are there to be got at.  We don't need to be like Oz or Wales and give they intercepts and play loose.  Keep it tight and force the gaps.

I think it will be tight but feel Ireland have the players needed to do the job.  Our bench won't give away the 20pts that Italy and Wales gave up so should see a drop off come 60 minutes.

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:18 am

New Zealand: Jordie Barrett, Will Jordan, Rieko Ioane, Anton Lienert-Brown, Sevu Reece, Beauden Barrett, TJ Perenara, Ardie Savea, Dalton Papalii, Ethan Blackadder, Sam Whitelock (capt.), Brodie Retallick, Nepo Laulala, Codie Taylor, Joe Moody.

Replacements: Dane Coles, Karl Tu'inukuafe, Tyrel Lomax, Tupou Vaa’i, Akira Ioane, Finlay Christie, Richie Mo’unga, David Havili.

Strong lineup, I think the 4-1 odds for Ireland is a bit shamrock-tinted already. This could be NZ by 20-25 points.

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Post by Brendan Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:55 am

That is a good team but I think we under estimate our own players sometimes.

The last team they sent to Dublin was good aswell.  Just need to kick our points and trust defence to play territory.

Excited to see how the scrum goes against a high standard scrum.

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:02 am

What's the Ireland team?

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:43 am

mikey_dragon wrote:What's the Ireland team?

Ireland Team & Replacements (v New Zealand, Autumn Nations Series, Saturday, November 13, 3:15 pm)
15. Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD) 14 caps
14. Andrew Conway (Munster/Garryowen) 26 caps
13. Garry Ringrose (Leinster/UCD) 35 caps
12. Bundee Aki (Connacht/Galwegians) 32 caps
11. James Lowe (Leinster) 7 caps
10. Johnny Sexton (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 100 caps CAPTAIN
9. Jamison Gibson Park (Leinster) 11 caps

1. Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD) 38 caps
2. Ronan Kelleher (Leinster/Lansdowne) 14 caps
3. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster/Clontarf) 50 caps
4. Iain Henderson (Ulster/Academy) 64 caps
5. James Ryan (Leinster/UCD) 38 caps
6. Caelan Doris (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 10 caps
7. Josh van der Flier (Leinster/UCD) 33 caps
8. Jack Conan (Leinster/Old Belvedere) 21 caps

Replacements
16. Rob Herring (Ulster/Ballynahinch) 22 caps
17. Cian Healy (Leinster/Clontarf) 110 caps
18. Finlay Bealham (Connacht/Buccaneers) 17 caps
19. Tadhg Beirne (Munster/Lansdowne) 23 caps
20. Peter O’Mahony (Munster/Cork Constitution) 77 caps
21. Conor Murray (Munster/Garryowen) 90 caps
22. Joey Carbery (Munster/Clontarf) 25 caps
23. Keith Earls (Munster/Young Munster) 94 caps

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:44 am

Basically the same as last week but Beirne and Henderson switch places and Sheehan drops off the bench to make space for Herring.

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Post by theslosty Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:51 am

Virtually everyone is fit apart from Henshaw which is a great and very unusual situation to be in. But it's startling that there's still 12 Leinster starters in the side, and would probably be 13 if Henshaw was available. In fact, Henderson is the only starter who grew up in one of the other provinces - and even he has only got in on a 50-50 decision with Kildare native Beirne.
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Post by Collapse2005 Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:30 am

There are 4 Kiwis, so at least they are getting some representation for diversity.

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Post by Collapse2005 Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:47 am

Positive covid test in camp, match to be cancelled?

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Post by geoff999rugby Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:21 pm

theslosty wrote:Virtually everyone is fit apart from Henshaw which is a great and very unusual situation to be in. But it's startling that there's still 12 Leinster starters in the side, and would probably be 13 if Henshaw was available. In fact, Henderson is the only starter who grew up in one of the other provinces - and even he has only got in on a 50-50 decision with Kildare native Beirne.

Not saying they would get selected but Addison, Stockdale, Cooney are all injured

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:30 pm

So is Wayne Barnes reffing this one or what?

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Post by Unclear Fri Nov 12, 2021 2:08 pm

Ref is Luke Pearce.

Don't have any significant complaints about the team selection this week, but I hope for a win rather than expect one. Last week was as good a performance as could be expected, but the ABs are a different matter.

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Post by geoff999rugby Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:04 pm

Argentina will be best measure of where we are at

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Post by Unclear Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:27 pm

Very true.

When we win we are rarely as good as some people say, when lose we are rarely as bad as other people say.

zen

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Post by ebop Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:47 am

Pretty cool interaction with the locals

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300453845/all-blacks-delighted-by-haka-greeting-at-training-ahead-of-test-against-ireland
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Post by profitius Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:50 am

It's a bit of a worry that Ireland are being talked up a small bit this week. I'm looking forward to it anyway.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:32 pm

Well. At least a yellow.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:34 pm

Well so far quite even

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:36 pm

Nicely worked try.

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Post by Heaf Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:36 pm

Nicely taken try ...

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Post by doctor_grey Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:37 pm

doctor_grey wrote:Well so far quite even
cancel that

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:44 pm

That HIA strengthens NZ for me.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:45 pm

Ireland have started excellently. Need to put some more points on though.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:51 pm

So much sloppiness by Ireland in the 22 and now Sexton looks in trouble.

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