Ireland 2021/22

First topic message reminder :

The squad will be named in about 4 weeks time so that should give players the chance to play their way in or out of the squad.


I think this season will see a number of players breaking into the squad or forcing their way up the pecking order. A few that spring to mind are Dan Sheehan, Hume, Coombes, Casey, Harry Byrne..


Porter to loosehead gives that position a boost although Furlong becomes even more important.
Sheehan has looked very good. Darts seem good and he's good around the pitch.


Doris, Conan and Coombes battling for 6 and 8. Good options. Can Leave get back to near his best.


Casey is pushing hard and there's also the emergence of Doak. All of a sudden a traditional problem position is looking strong.


Carbery has been very poor in the first 2 games. He has to get a grip. Harry Byrne is the hot new talent but I don't think the man can stay fit. Ben Healy could be in with a shout.


I'd have Hume ahead of Ringrose now. Henshaw leading the 12s.


Options in the outside backs also but nearly every option has a question mark around them. Lowes defence, Stockdale errors, Earls' age etc. I think Keenan is first choice 15.

geoff999rugby wrote:Fair bit of talk on the Leinster site that Frawley should be at 10
because neither Bryne is good enough.
Anger after a bad defeat but they have a point

But Ross is good enough? For Leinster at least, he's proven time and time again to be a quality 10 in Europe. Frawley would have to an international level quality 10 to surpass Byrne, which will be tough to achieve given how he's played at 12 for the majority of the last 2 seasons.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Fair bit of talk on the Leinster site that Frawley should be at 10
because neither Bryne is good enough.
Anger after a bad defeat but they have a point

But Ross is good enough? For Leinster at least, he's proven time and time again to be a quality 10 in Europe. Frawley would have to an international level quality 10 to surpass Byrne, which will be tough to achieve given how he's played at 12 for the majority of the last 2 seasons.

Ross just isn't up to it. He is too slow for international rugby. Healy and Crowley look like passing Harry out. I'd expect at least one of them to be called into train with ireland soon.


Frawley plays 12 so we don't know how good he would be as a 10. I like him as a 12 though.

profitius wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Fair bit of talk on the Leinster site that Frawley should be at 10
because neither Bryne is good enough.
Anger after a bad defeat but they have a point

But Ross is good enough? For Leinster at least, he's proven time and time again to be a quality 10 in Europe. Frawley would have to an international level quality 10 to surpass Byrne, which will be tough to achieve given how he's played at 12 for the majority of the last 2 seasons.

Ross just isn't up to it. He is too slow for international rugby. Healy and Crowley look like passing Harry out. I'd expect at least one of them to be called into train with ireland soon.


Frawley plays 12 so we don't know how good he would be as a 10. I like him as a 12 though.

I was only talking about him as an Leinster player. To be fair to him he was given a baptism of fire in the international game. Two of his starts came against that great England side while we were at our lowest ebb in quite some time. Healy and Cowley are exciting prospects, we're lucky to have them coming up.

Henderson is fit for selection

I think Harry sums up some people's view on potential new players.  Harry is comfortably behind Ross for the people who see them every day.  Same with Crowley at Munster is behind Healy.  With three strong provinces and Connacht being ok if you aren't making your team it's alot harder to justify a player who isn't getting regular game with at least in the 23.

With Frawley, he isn't close to displacing Henshaw while a player like Aki carries his team and  or a massive game changer like Hume or McCloskey are for Ulster in the big games.  I don't think he is getting past Ross at 10.  He needs to earn his straps at Leinster just like Harry or Crowley at Munster.

Coombes at Munster a good case in point where he has improved massively by being a regular at 8 being in the pressure cooker.  If he was still back up to Stander he doesn't pick up the mental knowledge of winning away in Castres and digging the game out away from home

Lowry, Baloucoune, Timoney playing for Ulster on Friday

15. Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD) 16 caps
14. Andrew Conway (Munster/Garryowen) 27 caps
13. Garry Ringrose (Leinster/UCD) 37 caps
12. Bundee Aki (Connacht/Galwegians) 33 caps
11. Mack Hansen (Connacht) uncapped
10. Johnny Sexton (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 101 caps CAPTAIN
9. Jamison Gibson Park (Leinster) 12 caps
1. Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD) 40 caps
2. Ronan Kelleher (Leinster/Lansdowne) 16 caps
3. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster/Clontarf) 52 caps
4. Tadhg Beirne (Munster/Lansdowne) 25 caps
5. James Ryan (Leinster/UCD) 40 caps
6. Caelan Doris (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 12 caps
7. Josh van der Flier (Leinster/UCD) 35 caps
8. Jack Conan (Leinster/Old Belvedere) 22 caps

Replacements
16. Dan Sheehan (Leinster/Lansdowne) 2 caps
17. Cian Healy (Leinster/Clontarf) 112 caps
18. Finlay Bealham (Connacht/Buccaneers) 18 caps
19. Ryan Baird (Leinster/Dublin University) 6 caps
20. Peter O’Mahony (Munster/Cork Constitution) 79 caps
21. Conor Murray (Munster/Garryowen) 92 caps
22. Joey Carbery (Munster/Clontarf) 27 caps
23. James Hume (Ulster/Banbridge) 1 cap

No Henshaw. Is he injured?

That might be the best pack Ireland have ever had. Is that a bit dramatic? Some real studs on show.

Back line not too shabby either, might lack a touch of zip.

Cant remember the last time no Ulster guys starting, cant say its deserved either as they are really playing well.

Not too surprised, a pretty good looking team.  I worry about the lack of development opportunities because I always worry about the future (particularly the World Cup squad) rather than the immediate result.  Could Coombes not have been on the bench instead of O"Mahony?  Hume in the centre?  Lowery on the bench as utility back?  Youth in place of a known quantity to give it a chance.

Yes, I'm am armchair critic and will never be satisfied (continuous improvement anyone?)

Don't you know going into a World Cup with only 20 front line experienced players is the Irish way

That is an outstanding pack but Henderson apart who is there to come in?
POM and Healy have great experience but are on the wane.
The rest are either not good enough or have not had the game time they need to make a full contribution - more the former than the later to be fair.

The backs - I cant agree. Bit of a dogs breakfast imo.
We have better talent that still awaits the chance of more than the odd game here and there, or in some case no game time at all.
Not help by some provinces Leinster (Frawley) and Munster (Healy) not playing players as first choice or not playing them where their talent suggests they would be best.

So what is the story with Healy? He was switched from LH to TH (with Porter going the other way) in the blue jersey at the bequest of the green blazer gang, though he seems be a green LH once again. It could be argued that we have picked 4 tighthead props for this fixture.

Would have liked Balacoune to get a start, Hansen has played well for Connacht but it feels to me like a 'get him capped and qualified' kind of a move after showing him the training camp for the AIs.

Herring not getting the bench ahead of Sheehan is a bit telling there.

Is Henderson actually injured? Going Beirne I could understand as he knows a lot of the welsh from his time and lifts his game against them. Baird though can only be if Henderson is injured, right? Or is it expected to be a high tempo match choice?

I kind of like the idea of POM, Murray and Carberry all coming on together at about 60 minutes.

I'd have liked Hume to have started (to reward form). I'm always apprehensive of a centre taking the bench spot, all it takes is a HIA on one of the back 3 players and it starts feeling like the entire backline is being reshuffled. A wing moving into midfield during a mid-match shuffle feels like it just works smoother. Did Farrell get spooked out of picking Hume in the centre because Adams is in there opposite, it can't be?

Match thread here: https://www.606v2.com/t70536-ireland-v-wales-match-thread

Ringrose would go to the wing

Hansen is definitely picked to make him Irish.
His defence is terrible.
Kick in the teeth to a born and bred Irishman

I think Ireland’s more youthful players will feature later on, no easy games this year apart from Italy and possibly this weekends one. I do disagree with POM though, Coombes there for me. POM plays well enough but half the time he’s just average and a bit of a Ben Sh!tehouse.

Sexton out for Saturdays game, Carbery in.

Ouch. That's a blow, was hoping Ireland would take points off France and that makes it a bit more unlikely. Strong France team announced (unsurprisingly).

Ireland: Hugo Keenan; Andrew Conway, Garry Ringrose, Bundee Aki, Mack Hansen; Joey Carbery, Jamison Gibson Park; Andrew Porter, Ronan Kelleher, Tadhg Furlong; Tadhg Beirne, James Ryan; Caelan Doris, Josh van der Flier, Jack Conan.

Replacements: Dan Sheehan, Cian Healy, Finlay Bealham, Iain Henderson, Peter O'Mahony, Conor Murray, Jack Carty, Robbie Henshaw.

Good opportunity for Joey to step up and prove himself in a key Test in Paris.
Nice to see Carty on the bench, I wonder how they decide to split minutes of whether Farrell will try and run out Joey for the full 80mins.
Baird and Hume did nothing wrong last week, but lose out to two Lions coming onto the bench.

Only a couple of changes in the French side (Danty out injured and Cretin drops to the bench).

This could be the match of the tournament.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ouch. That's a blow, was hoping Ireland would take points off France and that makes it a bit more unlikely. Strong France team announced (unsurprisingly).

They could still win but it does make it less likely. Ireland also played France last year without Sexton and it was a tight game but they did lose by a couple of points.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Ireland: Hugo Keenan; Andrew Conway, Garry Ringrose, Bundee Aki, Mack Hansen; Joey Carbery, Jamison Gibson Park; Andrew Porter, Ronan Kelleher, Tadhg Furlong; Tadhg Beirne, James Ryan; Caelan Doris, Josh van der Flier, Jack Conan.

Replacements: Dan Sheehan, Cian Healy, Finlay Bealham, Iain Henderson, Peter O'Mahony, Conor Murray, Jack Carty, Robbie Henshaw.

No surprises there accepting the forced change with Sexton being injured.  The argument about why change a winning side is pretty compelling and again why wouldn't you include 2 Lions in the 23 if they are available.  Carberry in for Sexton doesn't worry too much and it is good for him to get the minutes in a high intensity test.  In terms of development would have preferred to see others rather than O'Mahoney and Murray on the bench, there are younger alternatives who are just as good and need the experience in my view.  There is always room to complain

French team for Saturday. A couple of changes: Moefana in for the injured Danty and Cros starts in the back row ahead of Cretin.
A 6,2 split adds Flaminet to the bench.
This puts two locks onto the bench allowing for Woki to drop back to 6 later in the game as happened against AB's in November.
The loss of Danty will, to some extent, balance out Ireland's loss of Jonathan Sexton.

France: Jaminet, Penaud, Fickou, Moefana, Villiere, Ntamack, Du Pont: Baille, Marchand, Atonio, Woki, Willemse, Cros, Jelonch, Alldritt

Bench: Mauvaka, Gros, Bamba, Flaminet, Taofeffanua, Cretin, Lucu, Ramos (covering 10 and 15)

Maybe its a good thing that Sexton is out long term. I dont think the team should have anything to fear just because he is out as we have defeated France without him before including at the RWC. Time for Carbery to step up to the mark.

What changes would you like to see for the Italy game? I'd say keenan might be given a rest. Lowry the likely replacement although they might want to look at someone like Hansen there.


Coombes, Balcoune Henderson, Sheehan could be starting. Lowe back too.


I don't see wholesale changes though.

Yeah good idea to give Keenan a break. Id say he has played more consecutive tests that most in the squad.

I would like to see Lowry, Hume and maybe big Coombs. I would also like to see someone other than Murray or JGP start. Maybe Craig Casey or Doak.  Im guessing Murray will start with Casey on the bench though.

Finally, probably be good if Carbery got another start. Also its nice to see Jimmy O'Brien make the squad as he has been very good lately.

There needs to be back-up to Keenan, so Lowry or Jimmy O'Brien should start to get experience. There can't be a reliance on Conway providing cover. I would also like to see Hume in the centre, and Coombes and Timoney in the pack. Henderson should be given some time as he returns to full fitness and I can see Bealham starting with Furlong benching. Given all those changes, and Carberry starting but Sexton closing things out, it seems unlikely there will be a change at scrum half. But in all honesty I don't think there will be that many changes.

What is happening in the summer? I can't see anything other than 3 tests against the All Blacks, which if it is true doesn't given much chance for further development of new/fringe players.

Unclear wrote:There needs to be back-up to Keenan, so Lowry or Jimmy O'Brien should start to get experience.  There can't be a reliance on Conway providing cover.  I would also like to see Hume in the centre, and Coombes and Timoney in the pack.  Henderson should be given some time as he returns to full fitness and I can see Bealham starting with Furlong benching.  Given all those changes, and Carberry starting but Sexton closing things out, it seems unlikely there will be a change at scrum half.  But in all honesty I don't think there will be that many changes.

What is happening in the summer?  I can't see anything other than 3 tests against the All Blacks, which if it is true doesn't given much chance for further development of new/fringe players.

On the tour to NZ there's talk of 2 midweek games as well. Thought I saw that one is against Maori and the other against a super rugby side.


If it does happen it will be great for the wider squad.

profitius wrote:

Unclear wrote:There needs to be back-up to Keenan, so Lowry or Jimmy O'Brien should start to get experience.  There can't be a reliance on Conway providing cover.  I would also like to see Hume in the centre, and Coombes and Timoney in the pack.  Henderson should be given some time as he returns to full fitness and I can see Bealham starting with Furlong benching.  Given all those changes, and Carberry starting but Sexton closing things out, it seems unlikely there will be a change at scrum half.  But in all honesty I don't think there will be that many changes.

What is happening in the summer?  I can't see anything other than 3 tests against the All Blacks, which if it is true doesn't given much chance for further development of new/fringe players.

On the tour to NZ there's talk of 2 midweek games as well. Thought I saw that one is against Maori and the other against a super rugby side.


If it does happen it will be great for the wider squad.

Summer tests in NZ are not a great place to blood or develop players. Usually, though, when younger players are given a run there only a few sprinkled in with experienced teammates. This will be difficult with three full blooded tests against a team looking to get wins back against the team that has done well against them away from home. Gotta grab that W in the very first test. As a doc, this series could be very good for my business.

Henderson has withdrawn from the squad due to a positive COVID diagnosis (2 tests apparently). Wonder if there will be any further cases, he wasn't released to Ulster last weekend so presumably it wouldn't have been picked it up from the club setup.

A chance to give Treadwell some time off the bench? It would seem unlikely but who knows?

Sexton set to return for the game against Italy.

You all ways want your best players on the field at all times. But do you not think that Sexton should be on the bench and Carberry starting?

Are Ireland tro reliant on Sexton?

Will Sexton make the RWC?


?

majesticimperialman wrote:Sexton set to return for the game against Italy.

You all ways want your best players on the field at all times. But do you not think that Sexton should be on the bench and Carberry starting?

Are Ireland tro reliant on Sexton?

Will Sexton make the RWC?


?

yes

I have my doubts about Sexton making the next world cup. He doesn't play much but gets injured easily and at his age 18 months is a long time. Carbery is another injury prone player.

Based on no real evidence I think Sexton manages his game time very carefully and do wonder about the seriousness of many of his injuries. By doing this I think he reckons he can make the next RWC, and I wouldn't bet against him.

Carbery does also appear injury prone. At the moment Carty would do a decent job, but the likes of Healy and the other young pretenders need to start showing more if they have the ambition. I don't think either Byrne (R) or Burns would be anything other than emergency cover. Maybe bit harsh as form can change.

Some pointless stats for Ireland fans:

Ireland have the most away wins in the history of the six nations.
Overall six nations table Ireland are tied at the top with England for the most points (combined points for each six nations campaign) So a win v England and we will top the all time table.
Overall head to head with Scotland is 67 lost 66 won 5 drawn so a win v Scotland will even up the record.

Moral of the story lots to play for.

Collapse2005 wrote:Some pointless stats for Ireland fans:

Ireland have the most away wins in the history of the six nations.
Overall six nations table Ireland are tied at the top with England for the most points (combined points for each six nations campaign) So a win v England and we will top the all time table.
Overall head to head with Scotland is 67 lost 66 won 5 drawn so a win v Scotland will even up the record.

Moral of the story lots to play for.

Doesn't this sit better on the "lies, damned lies, and statistics" topic? Or am I just grumpy and lacking context?

Great depth on the wing for Ireland at the moment:

Lowe
Earls
Hansen
Balacoune
Conway
Larmour
Zebo
Stockdale

Any of these guys could do a job for us.

Sexton has signed a new contract, nice. Still the best OH in the six nations in my view.

Well after Smith.

Sexton retiring after the world cup then.

Collapse2005 wrote:Great depth on the wing for Ireland at the moment:

Lowe
Earls
Hansen
Balacoune
Conway
Larmour
Zebo
Stockdale

Any of these guys could do a job for us.

Good depth but time to promote Baloucoune as he surely has the highest ceiling and imo the potential to rival other world-class wingers such as Penaud, Kolbe, Jordan etc. Although I did think that of Larmour and Stockdale a couple of years ago too.

I agree Baloucoune needs to be tested at the highest level as he has all the attributes (in my view) to be an excellent winger. I do wonder though if the way Ulster are playing isn't doing him any favours. I'm probably taking 2 and 2 and getting a number of different answers and none of them are 4. It looks to me that Farrell is looking for his wingers to come in field "looking for work" (I think is the expression). And Conway, Lowe and Hansen have been dong. Ulster seem want the wingers holding width, not coming in, relying on the pack and centres to get the front foot possession that draws in the defence and releases the space out wide for the wingers. This certainly plays to Baloucounes speed, as evidenced last weekend against Cardiff.

I'm not saying either way is right and the other wrong, but it might explain selection.

Ntamack is a better 10 than any other in the Six Nations IMO.

Ntamack
Sexton
Smith
Biggar
Russell
Garbisi

That's some list of talented, varied 10s to be fair. Ntamack is the pick for me at the moment though. Easy to forget he's the second youngest too. Only Garbisi is younger than Ntamack on that list.

Carberry, Ford and Jalibert aren't bad players to list amongst back ups either!

theslosty wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Great depth on the wing for Ireland at the moment:

Lowe
Earls
Hansen
Balacoune
Conway
Larmour
Zebo
Stockdale

Any of these guys could do a job for us.

Good depth but time to promote Baloucoune as he surely has the highest ceiling and imo the potential to rival other world-class wingers such as Penaud, Kolbe, Jordan etc. Although I did think that of Larmour and Stockdale a couple of years ago too.

He is definitely a class act I have to agree and I think Ulster in general are very exciting to watch at the moment so he fits really well into that team. I think his time will come.

king_carlos wrote:Ntamack is a better 10 than any other in the Six Nations IMO.

Ntamack
Sexton
Smith
Biggar
Russell
Garbisi

That's some list of talented, varied 10s to be fair. Ntamack is the pick for me at the moment though. Easy to forget he's the second youngest too. Only Garbisi is younger than Ntamack on that list.

Carberry, Ford and Jalibert aren't bad players to list amongst back ups either!

Yeah serious talent and your list isn't unreasonable however I'd still pick Sexton as number 1. He is an absolute winner and key to Ireland.

I think Dupont and Ntamak really compliment each other and are the best 9/10 combo in the world, however, if you take away Dupont I bet Ntamak wouldnt look quite as good however, for me Sexton tends to be the key man in all 9/10 combos he plays in.

Very hard to say who's #1. All are excellent 10s with different strengths.
Garbisi shines in a weak Italy side(compared to other 6N teams).
Biggar incredibly consistant.
Ntamack has it all, vision, passing and running with ball.
Sexton been a top 10 for 15 years(?). Not sure he's quite what he was though, time and injury taken toll.
Russell can produce magic from hand and boot. He can also be woeful though.
Smith can do it all but early days Internationally but has potential to be up there as best 10.

As Collapse2005 says, what marks out Ntamack is his pairing with DuPont.

Yeah its just a matter of opinion really unless a guy is on Dupont or Carter levels.

Keenan; Conway, Ringrose, Aki, Lowe; Sexton (capt), Gibson-Park; Healy, Sheehan, Furlong, Beirne, Ryan, O’Mahony, van der Flier, Doris.

Replacements: Herring, Kilcoyne, Bealham, Henderson, Conan, Murray, Carbery, Henshaw.

Really sad to see Dan Leavy retire. What a player he was. Was in my view best 7 in the world in 2018 and had the world at his feet. So disappointing that injuries prevented him from realising all his potential.

Terrible shame. IMO was Ireland's best player in the 2018 6 nations. Was always hoping he would make it back to that level but it wasn't to be. Imagine a back row of Leavy, VDF and Doris.

Looks like Baloucoune is starting to announce himself as probably the best winger in Ireland. Some Ulster fans might argue he has been for a while. Has to travel to NZ.

We have great wingers at the moment. I also wonder would someone like Jordan Conroy from the 7s team be able to make the switch to 15s. They were excellent today in the Singapore 7s.

Got tickets for Ireland v Tonga (almost certainly) in Nantes
for the World Cup next year thanks to a French contact.

That’s four of us on a Rosslare to Roscoff ferry next autumn.
Happy days