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6 Nations Round 3 - England v Wales

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Wed 16 Feb 2022, 10:20 am

First topic message reminder :

England v Wales

Twickers, London
Saturday 26th Feb 2022
Kick Off - 1645hrs

England team

Steward; Malins, Daly, Slade, Nowell; Smith, Randall; Genge, Cowan-Dickie, Sinckler, Ewels, Itoje, Lawes (Capt), Curry, Dombrandt.

Replacements: George, Marler, Stuart, Isiekwe, Simmonds, Youngs, Ford, Marchant.

Wales Team

L Williams; Cuthbert, Watkin, Tompkins, Adams; Biggar (capt), T Williams; W Jones, Elias, Francis, Rowlands, Beard, Moriarty, Basham, Faletau.

Replacements: Lake, G Thomas, Brown, S Davies, Morgan, Hardy, Anscombe, J Davies.


Last edited by Sgt_Pooly on Sun 27 Feb 2022, 4:37 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 23 Feb 2022, 6:09 pm

They'd probably just try to tighten things up to start with.

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Post by RiscaGame Wed 23 Feb 2022, 6:30 pm

As the WRU aren’t exactly losening the purse strings nowadays, I can’t see them sacking a coach under contract.

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Post by The Oracle Wed 23 Feb 2022, 7:11 pm

Who tied that dog loose?!
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Post by Gooseberry Wed 23 Feb 2022, 8:24 pm

So apparently Zammit is fit to play, just dropped for Adams. Makes sense if hes struggling for form to be playing rather than carrying drinks, but still feels like a big call. #

Wonder if the press will hound Pivac out if Cuthbert backfires Whistle

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Post by majesticimperialman Wed 23 Feb 2022, 9:28 pm

LRZ left out of the welsh squad, and Josh Adams replacement.

A good choice or mistake by Pivac?

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Post by lostinwales Wed 23 Feb 2022, 11:14 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:LRZ left out of the welsh squad, and Josh Adams replacement.

A good choice or mistake by Pivac?

I don't think anyone has any worries about Adams. It's Cuthbert who seems to be a much more questionable choice

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Post by chris_501 Thu 24 Feb 2022, 7:28 am

I imagine with the aerial bombardment coming from Youngs, it’s probably felt that LRZ is more of a risk than Cuthbert or McNicholl, especially as his attacking game is not quite on form.

Faletau into the squad could be a good thing, his error count is so low, if we are on the back foot, his composure will surely be needed.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 24 Feb 2022, 8:38 am

God how I love it when people speak like this throguh the media (walesonline, though I don't know where they've nicked it from):

(mike) 'Brown says Wales will not be able to match the English pack, predicting a home win in the vital Six Nations encounter.

Whichever side loses will see their title hopes ended, and Brown is confident that won't be Eddie Jones' men.

He had already thrown down the gauntlet previously by claiming not a single member of the Wales side would get into England's XV.

"I just think the English forwards will dominate the Welsh forwards, with all due respect. I just think they have got too much up front," he told the BBC Scrum V podcast.

"I think they will be too strong and too powerful up front and I think that will help them get the ball they need to release those outside backs.

"Losing to Wales is just unthinkable as an English player because of the rivalry. It was for me anyway and I'm sure the other players feel the same. Especially at home as well. You don't want to lose at home. I've done that before and it's not a good feeling losing to Wales at Twickenham.

"I think the Twickenham factor is a huge one. Wales are a different beast away from the Principality and they don't have that crowd to give them energy and lift them so that will be in England's favour."


I do agree that our pack has looked very good over the last 2 games. Only one likely change with Lawes coming which does concern me re the breakdown slightly again, the Welsh backrow may make hay there but there's a lot of power in there as Brown says. Read yesterday from Charlie Morgan that Wales have deliberately avoided lineouts vs England so perhaps doesn't make as much sense to go with him at 6. Stats from that were that England had 17 lineouts in both our opening 2 games and a total of 15 in our last 3 6Ns games vs Wales.

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Post by Mr Bounce Thu 24 Feb 2022, 11:39 am

RANDALL STARTS!!!
Quick ball...

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 24 Feb 2022, 11:40 am

F me sideways:

Steward; Malins, Slade, Tuilagi, Nowell; Smith, Randall; Genge, Cowan-Dickie, Sinckler, Ewels, Itoje, Lawes (Capt), Curry, Dombrandt.

Replacements: George, Marler, Stuart, Isiekwe, Simmonds, Youngs, Ford, Daly.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 24 Feb 2022, 11:40 am

From the available squad, I like that alot.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 24 Feb 2022, 11:46 am

And with this Wales team I'm less worried about the breakdown too. Optimism.

L Williams; Cuthbert, Watkin, Tompkins, Adams; Biggar (capt), T Williams; W Jones, Elias, Francis, Rowlands, Beard, Moriarty, Basham, Faletau.

Replacements: Lake, G Thomas, Brown, S Davies, Morgan, Hardy, Anscombe, J Davies.

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Post by mountain man Thu 24 Feb 2022, 11:54 am

Praise the lord Randall starts. That's a good Eng team and with Wales leaving out an under performing LRZ that also helps. As expected Lawes and Manu back in which is massive boost.
Welsh backrow is good though so big test there.

Game definitely ON.

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Post by Poorfour Thu 24 Feb 2022, 11:56 am

That's an England team I can get excited about. Clearly the desire to give Smith quick ball and options wins out over Youngs' control kicking, and if that midfield gels it could be very exciting.
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Post by mountain man Thu 24 Feb 2022, 12:02 pm

Interesting he went for LCD to start with George on bench. Just ringing the changes or a particular horses for courses? I think starting XV will be all about really fast tempo and maybe bring on bench to steady things when in winning posiiton maybe?

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Thu 24 Feb 2022, 12:09 pm

Jones is finally coming round to giving Smith a fighting chance of setting that backline alight.

Dombrandt at 8 is a good call, hopefully him and Tuilagi can cut some good lines. It's clear that Youngs isn't a great fit for Smith with his sloth like delivery.....hopefully Randall can kick ok.

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Post by Poorfour Thu 24 Feb 2022, 12:32 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Jones is finally coming round to giving Smith a fighting chance of setting that backline alight.

Dombrandt at 8 is a good call, hopefully him and Tuilagi can cut some good lines. It's clear that Youngs isn't a great fit for Smith with his sloth like delivery.....hopefully Randall can kick ok.

I'd love to see a couple of moments in the game where Smith has Tuilagi on one side with Slade behind and Malins outside, Sinckler on the short side and Dombrandt behind him ready to cut a line. Lots to interest the defence. At which point he can kick pass to Nowell and surprise everybody.
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Post by GeordieFalcon Thu 24 Feb 2022, 12:39 pm

Lets hope Manu and Nowell get through the game.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Thu 24 Feb 2022, 12:43 pm

Id love to know what Ewells brings that the others dont....is he really the best set piece lock we have at the moment

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Post by Poorfour Thu 24 Feb 2022, 1:12 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Id love to know what Ewells brings that the others dont....is he really the best set piece lock we have at the moment

He might be the best one who's not crocked. I suspect Launchbury is a game or two off full match fitness, Hill is crocked (I think), Kruis has retired. I am surprised Eddie hasn't had a look at Ribbans - but his selection criteria for different positions are usually based on some very detailed analysis of basics that any player has to fulfil before being considered. For Dombrandt, for instance, it was improving his work rate, defence and breakdown - which he has done and it's won him a starting berth. For locks, I imagine there's a lot of input from Proudfoot and Cockers about the technicalities of scrummaging, lineout calling and mauling that won't be very visible to us.
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Post by Barney McGrew did it Thu 24 Feb 2022, 1:22 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Lets hope Manu and Nowell get through the game.

They've shipped in an extra physio bench into HQ, so should be ok.

Should make for some interesting in-play betting - I'd go for Manu 1st (10 mins), then Nowell (20 min).

With Ford on to cover Manu. And then move Luke to the wing.
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Post by Duty281 Thu 24 Feb 2022, 2:43 pm

England are 1/7 in some places. Do make them favourites, but not by that much!

Very glad England are trying someone else at 9. Can Tuilagi make it through a few games? Would be huge to have him starting v the French.

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Post by Gooseberry Thu 24 Feb 2022, 3:11 pm

Duty281 wrote:England are 1/7 in some places. Do make them favourites, but not by that much!

Very glad England are trying someone else at 9. Can Tuilagi make it through a few games? Would be huge to have him starting v the French.

Yeah although your advice to back SA was a bit off I couldnt believe the price you can get on Wales to win this, shows just how much jingistic backing England get. Sure they are the better side and most likely to win, but 6 nations is littered with the corpses of favourites, its what makes the competition great.

To me the chance of England not winning is much greater than those betting odds would suggest.

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Post by Gooseberry Thu 24 Feb 2022, 3:17 pm

lostinwales wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:LRZ left out of the welsh squad, and Josh Adams replacement.

A good choice or mistake by Pivac?

I don't think anyone has any worries about Adams. It's Cuthbert who seems to be a much more questionable choice

Form.

Also maybe an element of them looking very lightweight on the outside backs (even against Englands) with Tompkins, Zammit, Adams and Williams. Cuthbert maybe better placed to deal with the inevitable England cross field kicks starting a few inches higher than his opposite numbers.

Certainly is going to be one of those calls that will get scrutinised if things go wrong for Wales though.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 24 Feb 2022, 3:40 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
Duty281 wrote:England are 1/7 in some places. Do make them favourites, but not by that much!

Very glad England are trying someone else at 9. Can Tuilagi make it through a few games? Would be huge to have him starting v the French.

Yeah although your advice to back SA was a bit off I couldnt believe the price you can get on Wales to win this, shows just how much jingistic backing England get. Sure they are the better side and most likely to win, but 6 nations is littered with the corpses of favourites, its what makes the competition great.

To me the chance of England not winning is much greater than those betting odds would suggest.

I didn't advise anyone to back SA. The last piece of betting advice I put on this forum was, I believe, for Bangladesh to beat NZ on the final day of their first test.

Not sure it's jingoistic backing either - an Australian bookmaker I just glanced at has the same price and handicap score as most British bookmakers.

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Post by BamBam Thu 24 Feb 2022, 5:08 pm

I hope Randall has an absolute blinder

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Post by majesticimperialman Thu 24 Feb 2022, 5:19 pm

BamBam wrote:I hope Randall has an absolute blinder

I just posted on the other thread that i was surprised Randall was starting and not Youngs.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Thu 24 Feb 2022, 5:45 pm

BamBam wrote:I hope Randall has an absolute blinder

As much as I knock Youngs.....(I do this a lot), he's an ok Int scrum half. He's defensively sound, he kicks well and he's steady. We just need better....especially with a flyhalf as good as Smith, who is a once in a generation player, he needs quick ball to play with.

I know some fans have question marks about Smith, but he just does things other players can't, he is our potentially our Carter. I love Ford, really rate him....but Smith is just special, he can unlock defences.

We have to buy into this and build a team around him.

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Post by Barney McGrew did it Thu 24 Feb 2022, 8:12 pm

Barney McGrew did it wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Lets hope Manu and Nowell get through the game.

They've shipped in an extra physio bench into HQ, so should be ok.

Should make for some interesting in-play betting - I'd go for Manu 1st (10 mins), then Nowell (20 min).

With Ford on to cover Manu. And then move Luke to the wing.

10 minutes I said - how wrong was I.
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Post by The Oracle Thu 24 Feb 2022, 8:13 pm

I’m reading that Tuilagi is out of the game Sad
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Post by Duty281 Thu 24 Feb 2022, 8:13 pm

Oh dear. See him again in the autumn?

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Thu 24 Feb 2022, 8:15 pm

Well that was short lived!

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 24 Feb 2022, 8:17 pm

Damn it. Another chance for Marchant hopefully as he's called up and not Daly.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 24 Feb 2022, 8:20 pm

Sounds like he could have played but they're taking no risks in aggravating his hamstring further.

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Post by majesticimperialman Thu 24 Feb 2022, 8:21 pm

I thought it was to good to be true Manu to start for England.
It is time to leave Manu out of the England team/squad and move on with the like of Marchant and other younger uninjured players.

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Post by majesticimperialman Thu 24 Feb 2022, 9:42 pm

Re injurie to Manu I am glad he got injured now before the game at least EJ has a chance to replace him with Marchant and still keep a full 23 on the field.

But in all honesty he should not pf been included in the squad in my opinion.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Thu 24 Feb 2022, 9:48 pm

Time to just forget about Manu...what,the point...just disrupts the preparation all the time

In the summer look at the other options...Odogwu,  Ojomoh, Kelly....


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Post by RiscaGame Thu 24 Feb 2022, 9:53 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:And with this Wales team I'm less worried about the breakdown too. Optimism.

L Williams; Cuthbert, Watkin, Tompkins, Adams; Biggar (capt), T Williams; W Jones, Elias, Francis, Rowlands, Beard, Moriarty, Basham, Faletau.

Replacements: Lake, G Thomas, Brown, S Davies, Morgan, Hardy, Anscombe, J Davies.

I love Leon Brown obviously, but it’s a bit harsh to drop Lewis after last week.

Otherwise, not particularly enthused by the rumoured team being true. Backs replacements don’t really inspire me either.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Thu 24 Feb 2022, 10:10 pm

So Sam Simmonds to start at 12?

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Post by mikey_dragon Thu 24 Feb 2022, 11:06 pm

The Oracle wrote:I’m reading that Tuilagi is out of the game Sad

It’s unbelievable. Got to feel for the guy though.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 25 Feb 2022, 4:17 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:F me sideways:
Now what to do with that visual?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 25 Feb 2022, 6:27 am

You do what you need to doc.

Team gets announced tomorrow. Likely it'll be Marchant. Could be Daly. Jones to throw Simmonds and Nowell in and play Slade at full back.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 25 Feb 2022, 6:51 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
The Oracle wrote:I’m reading that Tuilagi is out of the game Sad

It’s unbelievable. Got to feel for the guy though.
in my years treating male and female athletes of all ages, sizes, sports, and at all levels from recreational to professional, continuous injury history like his is very unusual.  If you recall, Jonny Wilkinson had to go elsewhere for recovery and care to reclaim his career.  The sport clinic at Killington, Vermont if I remember.  And after multiple failed comebacks, it took over a year away from everything just to get back healthy and in playing shape. This is what Manu needs. I truly feel for him.

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 25 Feb 2022, 8:05 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:You do what you need to doc.

Team gets announced tomorrow. Likely it'll be Marchant. Could be Daly. Jones to throw Simmonds and Nowell in and play Slade at full back.

TBF he legit could play Randall at 13 opposite Tompkins

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 25 Feb 2022, 8:16 am

Really does leave England looking a bit toothless again. Although a Daly fan Id rather see Marchant at 13 than him in this line up, but given Marchant wasnt included in the 25 he seems more likely to get a bench spot than a starting one.

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Post by mountain man Fri 25 Feb 2022, 8:34 am

Hugely disappointing but hardly a massive surprise about Manu. However, it just shows lack of alternatives that are ready to be put in.
Yes we can all name names but Jones hasn't settled on anyone in all his time as head coach, he basically waits until Manu is fit and immediately picks him. Understandly who wouldn't want a fit Tuilagi but how often is he fit. Stat is 79 Int games he's missed through injury which is crazy.
Marchant wasn't even in 23 now no doubt he'll start. Marchant is a quality player but hasn't done it for me this 6N and his confidence must be wavering given he's out soon as Manu fit but then suddenly needed again.


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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 25 Feb 2022, 8:35 am

Not sure Marchant missing out initially says too much, more likely they liked what Daly brought for the bench. Not too concerned if its Slade and Marchant lining up, though my patience for Slade to make good on early promise has evaporated, it's still the wings for me. I don't get why Radwan or Hassel-Collins aren't there.

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Post by mountain man Fri 25 Feb 2022, 8:57 am

Totally agree about wings, Malins is a good player but doesn't have x factor. Radwen certainly does. I'd go with Slade Marchant rather than Daly at centre to start. Daly for his limitations covers positions on bench for me. Slade is a conundrum, he often flatters to deceive. Can look brilliant but also at times doesn't cut it for Eng as he has for Exeter.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 25 Feb 2022, 9:22 am

Gooseberry wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:You do what you need to doc.

Team gets announced tomorrow. Likely it'll be Marchant. Could be Daly. Jones to throw Simmonds and Nowell in and play Slade at full back.

TBF he legit could play Randall at 13 opposite Tompkins

Ignoring the fact that Randall is both rapid and elusive. I thought a key element to the Welsh win last weekend was the Tompkins and Watkin partnership. Their organisation in defence really shut down the Scottish attack. Squidge Rugby have done a good video that shows them standing either side of the breakdown often so that they are marshalling half the pitch each. Might not be the most visually attractive (in terms of style) centre partnership Wales have had but it seemed to work well last time out, against probably more running threat then they'll see from England's centres now.

formerly known as Sam

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6 Nations Round 3 - England v Wales - Page 4 Empty Re: 6 Nations Round 3 - England v Wales

Post by mountain man Fri 25 Feb 2022, 9:37 am

Watkins had a really good game and think he's best bet in centre for Wales now Adams experiment was a disaster. That's why even more disappointing Manu is out, I can't see Slade and other making lots of headway against Welsh centres.

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6 Nations Round 3 - England v Wales - Page 4 Empty Re: 6 Nations Round 3 - England v Wales

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