SILLY SEASON TRANSFER RUMOURS 20/21

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GeordieFalcon wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:I think Schoeman has been injured for nearly all his time at Bath. Can play 10 and 15 though.

Chiefs look set to sign Leinster second row Dunne a 6ft8 122kg 21 year old for next season. Hasn't played this season yet due to an ankle injury. Replacement for one of the outgoing internationals it seems.

Just what we need!

At least your youngsters will get lots of game time.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Donny would just come straight back down, no money to compete despite winning more games than Ealing last year.

Wasps have an announcement at 10 this morning and from the looks of the twitter account doesn't come across as bad news.

Ha, literally just the new shirt. They'll have to shift a few!

No 7&1/2 wrote:Donny would just come straight back down, no money to compete despite winning more games than Ealing last year.

Wasps have an announcement at 10 this morning and from the looks of the twitter account doesn't come across as bad news.

Not if it was ringfenced.

From the beeb

"The day after Warriors were hit by legal action for unpaid taxes, the directors used another of their companies to purchase the club's car park, for just £50,000.

As well as being directors of WRFC Trading Limited, Colin Goldring and Jason Whittingham are also directors of a number of other companies, including Mq Property Ltd.

On Wednesday, 17 August Mq Property Ltd completed the purchase of the freehold of the club's car park. This was paid for with a loan from another company, Triangle Estate & Petroleum Ltd.

Separately in June, training pitches owned and used by Warriors were sold to a newly-created real estate company, Worcester Capital Investments Ltd, for £350,000.

The car park and pitches are sizeable parts of the Sixways site.

Warriors' accounts for 2020 state that as a whole the site had been independently valued at £16.7m. That estimate includes Sixways stadium; the freehold of which also now belongs to Mq Property Ltd.

Unlike indebted WRFC Trading Ltd, Mq Property Ltd is not known to face a winding-up petition, yet it now owns the bulk of the land the club sits on.

It's unclear whether the £50,000 purchase of the car park was an undervaluation. Its value - and that of the training pitches - will depend on what restrictions are in place on the land, as well as how easy it is to develop.

Warriors' 2020 accounts describe how the planning potential for the Sixways site had been 'significantly improved'."

Hope thats not dodgy shenanigan's....

On a similar note (some may call it dodgy money) i see Newcastle Womens football team are going to play some games at KP. I cant recall this ever happening before at any age group or sex so clearly the two groups are communicating.

There were reports when they took over Newcastle that they wanted to invest in all local sporting and non sporting areas of the region. I wonder if its true.

I can definitely seeing it being true. Lots of very positive stories around women's football now and the point of owning the club is to help with the image of the owners. A no brainer surely.

That Worcester story sounds dodgy as hell!

Welshmushroom wrote:Wonder if it would just make more sense to lessen the amount of teams and just share out the extra from the TV & RFU money between 11 instead of splitting it between 13 again

The TV & RFU payment is paid to PRL.

And Ollie Lawrence tweeting emojis of cowboys.

Reckon there'll be a few breaking news stories this week.

No 7&1/2 wrote:And Ollie Lawrence tweeting emojis of cowboys.

Reckon there'll be a few breaking news stories this week.

Do the Cowboys play in the Premiership?

formerly known as Sam wrote:From the beeb

"The day after Warriors were hit by legal action for unpaid taxes, the directors used another of their companies to purchase the club's car park, for just £50,000.

As well as being directors of WRFC Trading Limited, Colin Goldring and Jason Whittingham are also directors of a number of other companies, including Mq Property Ltd.

On Wednesday, 17 August Mq Property Ltd completed the purchase of the freehold of the club's car park. This was paid for with a loan from another company, Triangle Estate & Petroleum Ltd.

Separately in June, training pitches owned and used by Warriors were sold to a newly-created real estate company, Worcester Capital Investments Ltd, for £350,000.

The car park and pitches are sizeable parts of the Sixways site.

Warriors' accounts for 2020 state that as a whole the site had been independently valued at £16.7m. That estimate includes Sixways stadium; the freehold of which also now belongs to Mq Property Ltd.

Unlike indebted WRFC Trading Ltd, Mq Property Ltd is not known to face a winding-up petition, yet it now owns the bulk of the land the club sits on.

It's unclear whether the £50,000 purchase of the car park was an undervaluation. Its value - and that of the training pitches - will depend on what restrictions are in place on the land, as well as how easy it is to develop.

Warriors' 2020 accounts describe how the planning potential for the Sixways site had been 'significantly improved'."

Frak that sounds pretty blatant.

Sell the land to yourself at a reduced rate, then profit off it in the future...

Agree Yappy.....none of that looks good at all.

mikey_dragon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:And Ollie Lawrence tweeting emojis of cowboys.

Reckon there'll be a few breaking news stories this week.

Do the Cowboys play in the Premiership?

Maybe it was the closest he could get to a Chiefs emoji.

Rumours going round of Wuss academies players being told they're being evicted from their accomodation as the bank are foreclosing due to non-payment.

It's going to be those squad players that will get the rough end.

Another option that I've seen floated is that this could be an opportunity for the RFU to step in and offer some core contracts to some of the international players. If it were another team to Worcester I could see that as an option; probably more wishful thinking from someone who would like more union control on there core group though.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:And Ollie Lawrence tweeting emojis of cowboys.

Reckon there'll be a few breaking news stories this week.

Do the Cowboys play in the Premiership?

Maybe it was the closest he could get to a Chiefs emoji.

Rumours going round of Wuss academies players being told they're being evicted from their accomodation as the bank are foreclosing due to non-payment.

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's going to be those squad players that will get the rough end.

Another option that I've seen floated is that this could be an opportunity for the RFU to step in and offer some core contracts to some of the international players. If it were another team to Worcester I could see that as an option; probably more wishful thinking from someone who would like more union control on there core group though.

What international players? Well I suppose there's a couple of Scots in there. EQ wise Lawrence and Hill have been in squads but are seen as potential and not a lot more. Then it's Fin Smith who could take the England 10 shirt in the not to distant future if he progresses towards his full potential. Not really a lot of point for the RFU particularly as they don't have a team to send them to and sending them to any particular Prem team would be favouritism.

Having said all that getting Fin Smith on a central contract to keep him away from Scottish interest wouldn't be the worst idea.

mikey_dragon wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:And Ollie Lawrence tweeting emojis of cowboys.

Reckon there'll be a few breaking news stories this week.

Do the Cowboys play in the Premiership?

Maybe it was the closest he could get to a Chiefs emoji.

Rumours going round of Wuss academies players being told they're being evicted from their accomodation as the bank are foreclosing due to non-payment.

You can't be doing that anymore. They've just spent a million quid rebranding.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:And Ollie Lawrence tweeting emojis of cowboys.

Reckon there'll be a few breaking news stories this week.

Do the Cowboys play in the Premiership?

Maybe it was the closest he could get to a Chiefs emoji.

Rumours going round of Wuss academies players being told they're being evicted from their accomodation as the bank are foreclosing due to non-payment.

You can't be doing that anymore. They've just spent a million quid rebranding.

Was about to say that doesnt look like Jack Nowell ....

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's going to be those squad players that will get the rough end.

Another option that I've seen floated is that this could be an opportunity for the RFU to step in and offer some core contracts to some of the international players. If it were another team to Worcester I could see that as an option; probably more wishful thinking from someone who would like more union control on there core group though.

What international players? Well I suppose there's a couple of Scots in there. EQ wise Lawrence and Hill have been in squads but are seen as potential and not a lot more. Then it's Fin Smith who could take the England 10 shirt in the not to distant future if he progresses towards his full potential. Not really a lot of point for the RFU particularly as they don't have a team to send them to and sending them to any particular Prem team would be favouritism.

Having said all that getting Fin Smith on a central contract to keep him away from Scottish interest wouldn't be the worst idea.

Yeah that was my thinking on the internationals. Even if it were Wasps there are limited numbers. Suppose it could just be signalling the intention and direction of travel as other players contracts came up. Would be radical though and I think the RFU don't have the imagination, ambition or talent to do it.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:And Ollie Lawrence tweeting emojis of cowboys.

Reckon there'll be a few breaking news stories this week.

Do the Cowboys play in the Premiership?

Maybe it was the closest he could get to a Chiefs emoji.

Rumours going round of Wuss academies players being told they're being evicted from their accomodation as the bank are foreclosing due to non-payment.

You can't be doing that anymore. They've just spent a million quid rebranding.

They should have followed the route of Dragons RFC by nicking somebody else's badge.

If you're talking about that American team, it might be worth noting that the Fleur de lys existed many centuries before USA was a country. So we certainly didn't nick it from them.

A more positive take on what the Worcester directors are doing is that they may be moving assets around so that they can sacrifice one company while doing as little damage as possible to the overall group. It’s not a great look, but as long as it’s legal it’s may be the least worst option. It could conceivably allow Worcester to shed one company, take the hit from HMRC, the PRL and the RFU, but regroup and continue playing.

I’m not saying that’s what they’re doing, or if it is that it will work, but it’s a possibility and one that has been used before - several of the banks that underwent near death experiences in the global financial crisis split themselves into an ongoing business and a “bad bank” that assumed most of the non-performing assets.

Poorfour wrote:A more positive take on what the Worcester directors are doing is that they may be moving assets around so that they can sacrifice one company while doing as little damage as possible to the overall group. It’s not a great look, but as long as it’s legal it’s may be the least worst option. It could conceivably allow Worcester to shed one company, take the hit from HMRC, the PRL and the RFU, but regroup and continue playing.

I’m not saying that’s what they’re doing, or if it is that it will work, but it’s a possibility and one that has been used before - several of the banks that underwent near death experiences in the global financial crisis split themselves into an ongoing business and a “bad bank” that assumed most of the non-performing assets.

I think I read somewhere that they are under valuing the property significantly.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's going to be those squad players that will get the rough end.

Another option that I've seen floated is that this could be an opportunity for the RFU to step in and offer some core contracts to some of the international players. If it were another team to Worcester I could see that as an option; probably more wishful thinking from someone who would like more union control on there core group though.

What international players? Well I suppose there's a couple of Scots in there. EQ wise Lawrence and Hill have been in squads but are seen as potential and not a lot more. Then it's Fin Smith who could take the England 10 shirt in the not to distant future if he progresses towards his full potential. Not really a lot of point for the RFU particularly as they don't have a team to send them to and sending them to any particular Prem team would be favouritism.

Having said all that getting Fin Smith on a central contract to keep him away from Scottish interest wouldn't be the worst idea.

Yeah that was my thinking on the internationals. Even if it were Wasps there are limited numbers. Suppose it could just be signalling the intention and direction of travel as other players contracts came up. Would be radical though and I think the RFU don't have the imagination, ambition or talent to do it.

West
Oghre
Launchbury
Willis x 2
Shields
Barbeary
Robson
Umaga
Odogwu
Mills
Bassett

There's been plenty in and around England squads (not all those were capped some just training squads) and a few under 20s not a million miles away from future call ups in Atkinson or Haydon-Wood. Wasps with a ring fenced contract would make sense.

In fact merge them both under RFU ownership. Take control of whichever stadium is available cheapest. Get back on level footing and then sell off later.

As to where players go if the English cap isn't raised
I mentioned Tom Willis and his Irish ancestry earlier
Another useful signing, for Ulster, would be Sutherland to fill the gap until Kitshoff signs next year.

Sounds like there is a bit of a rescue bid in place for Worcester -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62652970
But it is dependent on a number of factors - that the current owners may or may not be willing to accept.

Sounds as if tomorrow is going to be a bit of make or break for Worcester as it's a pay day. A few players already have offers from others too.

Mercer confirmed to Gloucester. I still don't get what Bath were playing at.

Did Bath play at anything? Mercer was out of contract, out of England contentions and got offered presumably a far bigger deal than Bath could to play rugby on the south coast of France, for a very good team, travel in his early twenties. Bath have done a lot of things poorly in recent years but Mercer leaving is really Bath "playing at" something?

I actually think we might see more young players take these opportunities early in their careers then return to the Premiership. With how physical the game now is, no sign of less rugby and growing knowledge around head injuries I don't see careers as a whole getting longer. I think we will see more players take these chances to live life in their early twenties when the opportunity arises.

Undervaluing him is the key to my comment. He was picking up potm s regularly but still seemed to be viewed as the guy who would make way to Faletau when both fit. I know both of them were being interchanged at 6 and 8 towards the end but Mercer as a young guy on the up, they should have been pulling out the stops, not letting him be tempted away. God he should be there now as captain. Given his performances last year I would still imagine he'd pick up a better contract in France than at Gloucester, though if he manages to get some England appearances that clearly gives his bank balance a huge push. Lot's of competition but he is class.

Lets hope he does get England recognition, and hasnt sacrificed a nice life in the south of france for...nothing.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Undervaluing him is the key to my comment. He was picking up potm s regularly but still seemed to be viewed as the guy who would make way to Faletau when both fit. I know both of them were being interchanged at 6 and 8 towards the end but Mercer as a young guy on the up, they should have been pulling out the stops, not letting him be tempted away. God he should be there now as captain. Given his performances last year I would still imagine he'd pick up a better contract in France than at Gloucester, though if he manages to get some England appearances that clearly gives his bank balance a huge push. Lot's of competition but he is class.

Given the contract he was rumoured to have got at around 21/22 when he last signed I'm not sure he was undervalued.

Mercer played 8 in his final Bath season with Faletau bumped to 6. Mercer also had a very high percentage of starts in his appearances at Bath (65 Prem apps, 60 starts for instance) which is indicative of a player who plays when fit. In his final season he started all but one of his Prem apps for instance - the bench app coming after he'd signed with Montpellier - and played 80 minutes in all but one of those starts where he got subbed at 65 minutes but that was a Sunday game with a Friday day the following week (the silly 5 day turnaround) where Mercer played the 80.

I just think Montpellier came in with the right offer at the right time for Mercer. It seems to have made him a better player as well which is brilliant.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Lets hope he does get England recognition, and hasnt sacrificed a nice life in the south of france for...nothing.

If he isn't picked that's just life for a pro sportsman though rather than anything England rugby specific. All sportsman have to weigh these types of things up. Do you want a guaranteed wage from a set in stone contract or the possibility of money from international recognition, increased exposure, sponsorship, etc. What balance of chasing money money or trophies does a player want? Do you chase the biggest contract now even if what that contract demands might shorten your career or earn less now but potentially lengthen your career? It's all just part of the decision making process for a pro sportsman.

No player should be guaranteed international selection by a coach and IMO no player should demand selection at club level or higher before signing a contract either. With England's policy of picking Premiership based players all a player can really do is touch base to see if they might be in the frame should they perform well and all a coach can do is say they might be in the frame if they perform. Beyond that it's all impossible to predict. In a game like rugby Mercer could get a horrible injury this season for Montpellier and never wear the Gloucester shirt. Just part of the game sadly.

Depends if hes been in touch with Eddie etc and been given some "general" assurances that he'll be involved if hes performing as he has been.

Cant imagine him moving back otherwise. Life looks very rosey for him at the moment...

Who knows. There's loads of competition at 8.

Any idea that Jones might do that is just complete conjecture though being my point GF. There's a prevailing idea that Jones "plays mind games" and "messes players about" by picking and dropping them. Whereas that's just what all coaches do. It's just that because the media like the marmite nature of Jones personality, hence the easy traffic it drives for lazy journalists, it gets blown into more than it is in my opinion.

If England need an 8 when Mercer is available and he's playing well he'll have a shot. If another 8 is established and Mercer isn't performing well enough to budge them he won't. That's the same for all sportsman and Mercer's situation, the element of risk in making his decision to sign for Gloucester is no different.

king_carlos wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Undervaluing him is the key to my comment. He was picking up potm s regularly but still seemed to be viewed as the guy who would make way to Faletau when both fit. I know both of them were being interchanged at 6 and 8 towards the end but Mercer as a young guy on the up, they should have been pulling out the stops, not letting him be tempted away. God he should be there now as captain. Given his performances last year I would still imagine he'd pick up a better contract in France than at Gloucester, though if he manages to get some England appearances that clearly gives his bank balance a huge push. Lot's of competition but he is class.

Given the contract he was rumoured to have got at around 21/22 when he last signed I'm not sure he was undervalued.

Mercer played 8 in his final Bath season with Faletau bumped to 6. Mercer also had a very high percentage of starts in his appearances at Bath (65 Prem apps, 60 starts for instance) which is indicative of a player who plays when fit. In his final season he started all but one of his Prem apps for instance - the bench app coming after he'd signed with Montpellier - and played 80 minutes in all but one of those starts where he got subbed at 65 minutes but that was a Sunday game with a Friday day the following week (the silly 5 day turnaround) where Mercer played the 80.

I just think Montpellier came in with the right offer at the right time for Mercer. It seems to have made him a better player as well which is brilliant.

At the time Bath fans were going nuts about Mercer leaving, as it was assumed Faletau wouldn't get another marquee contract but Bath couldn't get anywhere near the money within the cap that Montpellier offered, which was the official line. That and the fact that EJ made it pretty clear he wouldn't feature in his plans at the time, meant the offer which came to Mercer rather than an agent knocking on doors for him, was too good to turn down. I hope Gloucester are not the graveyard of his test ambitions, as the history of their England back rowers isnt great.
Although I perhaps might be expected to say that.....

Kyle Hatherell rumoured to be going to a Top 14 club amidst Wuss players and staff not getting paid on time. A shame as he was very good for Worcester last season, a surprise package.

Also rumours that Fin Smith to Saints might be brought forward.

A bit more reading, it seems that the player contracts allow for wages to be two weeks late but beyond that players would be able to move on. Hatherell signing apparently involves a transfer fee from said Top 14 club to Wuss. If so it shows that club really rates Hatherell if they are taking the hit on the transfer fee to secure him ASAP.

king_carlos wrote:A bit more reading, it seems that the player contracts allow for wages to be two weeks late but beyond that players would be able to move on. Hatherell signing apparently involves a transfer fee from said Top 14 club to Wuss. If so it shows that club really rates Hatherell if they are taking the hit on the transfer fee to secure him ASAP.

He's been linked with Toulon previously. I think he'd suit the French league perfectly. Wuss might take a smaller fee than they ordinarily would in order just to help pay the payroll.

He was a very astute bit of business by Wuss and the backrow combination of Hatherall, Kvesic and Hill was a pretty potent one.

Fin Smith to Northampton apparently.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Fin Smith to Northampton apparently.

Rumour has been around for a while. Supposed to be for next summer but could be brought forward with Wuss's woes. Be good for him and Biggar. Biggar can reduce his playing time and stay fresher, he's had some niggling injuries hampering him previously, but still play the big games. Smith can get plenty of game time under his belt but not face the full pressure of being number 1 and can be mentored by an experienced international.

News is Monty Ioane has been released by Bennetton. Given their winger signings I'm guessing he has a big contract waiting for him somewhere else. Been a great player for them.

Welshmushroom wrote:News is Monty Ioane has been released by Bennetton.  Given their winger signings I'm guessing he has a big contract waiting for him somewhere else.  Been a great player for them.

Looks like he is heading to Australia for a Super Rugby side.

I think I heard somewhere that Wade has gone to Racing...

propdavid_london wrote:I think I heard somewhere that Wade has gone to Racing...

Yep think its on a 1 year deal to cover Regan Grace who has a bad injury.

They already lost Vakatawa now has he has been forced to retire yesterday due to health problems.

Imagine they have a bit of cap available to use.

Wade has gone to Racing to play 7s initially but will have a good shot at a full squad place if he's still got it.

Vakatawa technically hasn't been forced to retire, he just can't play in France. Their system grades injuries based on medical assessment and if a player is graded a certain severity (G3 I believe) then they can't continue playing in France. If fit to pass a medical they can play elsewhere depending on that leagues rules though. Juan Figallo, Christopher Tolofua and Max Lahiff off the top of my head have all been through that in France then played on in the Premiership for instance. Interesting all are front rowers and I believe all were assessed as G3 due to neck injuries. Nothing has yet come out about what injury Vakatawa has.

king_carlos wrote:Wade has gone to Racing to play 7s initially but will have a good shot at a full squad place if he's still got it.

Vakatawa technically hasn't been forced to retire, he just can't play in France. Their system grades injuries based on medical assessment and if a player is graded a certain severity (G3 I believe) then they can't continue playing in France. If fit to pass a medical they can play elsewhere depending on that leagues rules though. Juan Figallo, Christopher Tolofua and Max Lahiff off the top of my head have all been through that in France then played on in the Premiership for instance. Interesting all are front rowers and I believe all were assessed as G3 due to neck injuries. Nothing has yet come out about what injury Vakatawa has.

Heart condition, so not an injury as such. But continuing would be risky, to say the least. Or so I hear.

One of our young back rowers Freddie Lockwood who impressed in a few games last season and i picked to be a one to watch this season has joined jersey on dual reg loan for the season.

Think thats a good move actually...can get plenty of gametime there and will be available for cups etc for us.

GeordieFalcon wrote:One of our young back rowers Freddie Lockwood who impressed in a few games last season and i picked to be a one to watch this season has joined jersey on dual reg loan for the season.

Think thats a good move actually...can get plenty of gametime there and will be available for cups etc for us.

I was surprised to see that one earlier GF, I thought he'd be a regular in your 23. Welch, Graham and Fearns are all experienced but tend to pick injuries in a position that is pretty attritional. Chick is a good young player but after that it's finally average squad players like Collett and Van Der Walt. Lockwood was a very handy 7/8 when I saw him play, he'll rip it up in the Championship but Falcons could use that explosive carrying in the Prem.

Yeah it was a bit of a surprise, but i wonder if Lockwood is seen more as a 6 / 8 (he's 6'2 and 18st 2) and he does remind me of a young Carl Fearns.

We have plenty who can cover that position, but 7 (out and out 7s) we dont really have many bar Collett at a senior stage. Interestingly i rate Collett very highly, he just has a bad habit of getting inured just as he starts to hit top form.
We have Tiffin and Pepper coming through though...who are looking very good hopes.

So maybe they are saying Lockwood at 21 year old simply needs games every week (at this stage in his career) , and he might not get it this season with us, but he will at Jersey and he'll get some good physical testing aswell. He can also be recalled if required...maybe for cup games etc.

Whereas the young 7's can be worked on in the academy and get some cup games etc...

The lack of the A league i think is going to cause problems for teams developing their players....

He can be recalled but it's a mission to get back isn't it. How regular are flights from Jersey to Newcastle? Not going to be a quick call up is there's a mod week training injury if say he was on loan at Donny.