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England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down

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Post by KP_fan Sat 23 Jul 2022, 10:35 pm

First topic message reminder :

Duty281 wrote:What do we think of the future of ODI cricket as a whole, because its demise is once again being discussed?

Wasim Akram thinks ODI cricket should be put out of its misery; Mark Ramprakash says that Stokes' ODI retirement could be the beginning of the end for ODI cricket; but Ravi Shastri says there should be fewer T20Is.

My view is that ODI cricket should stay, and it's T20i cricket that should be abolished. T20 should remain franchise/domestic only. No need for a T20 World Cup when the IPL and such exists. If T20i cricket does stay, I think there should be no three format players, only two formats maximum. I'd be very disappointed if 50-over cricket died on an international basis.  

No format will die as long as they are generating revenues.
And much as I used to call them Meaningless-Masala-ODIs, these games as well as meaningless T20Is generate more revenue then tests.
Instead of 5 to 7 ODIs per series earlier...now limited over series comprise of 3+3.
Test Matches, "The Premium Form" of the game per purists ( including me) is still the commercially subsidized format of the game.
Now the defeats in ODIs/T20Is don't hurt as much, nor are wins remembered for long, only World Cups stay in memory.
But the international games generate high viewership rating & expensive advertisements (atleast on Indian TV)

As I wrote on the Ind-WI thread, the Indians have stopped complaining about too much cricket.
BCCI has found peace by putting out as many as 2 and a half to 3 squads now...call them Senior (or premium) and A and B squads for international games.
Ensuring prime stars get plenty of rest / rotation......and the pool of contracted players gets bigger and everyone gets full contracted fee, playing lesser games
Recently we have seen 2 Indian series running concurrently and twice VVSL has been India's national coach for a series when Dravid was with another Indian squad at the same time in another series.

If a marquee player Stokes was under BCCI management.....BCCI would have NEVER let him retire, would have done a sweet deal with him guaranteeing his workload across formats and asking him to appear for a very limited number of ODIs and T20Is and also letting him skip B grade test series.

No format will die since even these meaningless ODI&T20Is are indeed generating revenues, that are essential to subsidize tests and pump into FC, junior and women cricket development
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Post by alfie Sat 27 Aug 2022, 11:28 am

Ageless , isn't he ? Ball kept a bit low but basically he was undone by unsureness about the varying movement...nice bit of bowling and a key wicket.

Also put an end to that "funky" nonsense of Root wasting a still new ball.

Still no luck for Robinson...so near to having Erwee caught : yes , it carried to Crawley . Just about...

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Post by alfie Sat 27 Aug 2022, 11:41 am

Robinson gets his man now though...little bit of movement , thin edge and nice low catch for Foakes.

SA in a spot of bother at 39/2 , one might say.

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Post by alfie Sat 27 Aug 2022, 11:48 am

That was odd. Everyone thought that was an edge - and Petersen's head jerked around...but ball was some distance from bat as the review showed. Must have been a noise but not sure what...

Jimmy looking dangerous though.

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Post by alfie Sat 27 Aug 2022, 12:02 pm

No balls !

What a waste of a "classic" fast bowler's wicket . Broad a bit unfortunate to be called by that minuscule margin.

Not so Robinson who oversteps clearly ...bet he hopes he doesn't do so when he has a wicket again...but he pushes his luck a bit.

No peace for these SA bats at present.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 27 Aug 2022, 12:03 pm

Robinson definitely put on a mph or two in this new fitter form of himself
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Post by alfie Sat 27 Aug 2022, 12:12 pm

Overstep didn't cost much...edge and easy catch for Crawley...Markram trudges off.

Relief for Broad. Delight for England.

This could be over earlier than we thought.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 27 Aug 2022, 12:12 pm

Aiden Markram is the South African Zak Crawley - my column;
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Post by alfie Sat 27 Aug 2022, 12:28 pm

25 overs down and it's time for Leach to have a go. VD Dussen with the broken finger might actually find it easier than facing a quick bowler ; but with a bit of variation in bounce creeping in and a lot of runs to play with , Jack must fancy his chances.

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Post by alfie Sat 27 Aug 2022, 12:48 pm

Not seeing any great menace from Leach yet. For all the talk about how spin-friendly this pitch is likely to become as the game goes on (and it's true we've seen some serious turn at times already) , Harmer Maharaj and Leach between them have only picked up a handful of junk-time wickets so far.

31 overs gone so the ball will be entering that "soft and unthreatening" phase fairly soon ; so England will be hoping the spin twins can have some effect - as Joe Root re-enters the action.

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Post by alfie Sat 27 Aug 2022, 1:04 pm

3/65 from 27 overs a decent morning's work.

Next two wickets the key now . Soft ball so not too easy.

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Post by guildfordbat Sat 27 Aug 2022, 1:24 pm

alfie wrote:Couple of days couldn't have gone much better for England - some fine performances from a number of players contributing to this strong position.
Obviously Stokes & Foakes taking day two headlines ; but we should not forget the efforts of Bairstow and the under-pressure Crawley in making those tough runs against the rampant SA pace men - with first the newish , and later reversing, ball. Without their stand I suspect we would not have seen 400 plus.

Crawley's 38 won't look big on his CV ; but it might be just about his most important innings yet for England. And Jonny's 49 , seen in context , was probably nearly as significant (and difficult) as a couple of those earlier hundreds.

   ...

Hi Alfie and all - been out nearly all of the morning, just been catching up on today's play and posts.

Very much agree with Alfie about the contributions from Crawley and Bairstow and the considerable value of them. Interestingly or not, Knight was making the same point on Sky yesterday. I don't get why he's much maligned by some here. Generally seems to talk sense and knows more about the current county scene than many tv pundits. Not the most incisive analyst admittedly but Benaudesque compared to the likes of Dagnall, Cork and the truly terrible Tudor whom Sky continue to wheel out for non Test match cricket.

Anyway, so Root opened the bowling today? Yes? That's weird. Some say do what your opponents don't expect - fair enough but only if it's going to hurt them, surely?!

Nonetheless, things have continued to turn out nicely for England. 3 down at lunch, think all home supporters would have settled for that. Plus another failure for my man Markram.  Rolling Eyes

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Post by alfie Sat 27 Aug 2022, 2:17 pm

Hi Guildford... Not too much drama since lunch - although Pope got close to that little up push chip to mid on...Anderson still looking the most likely to get the break.

These two bats digging in with determination : with ball over forty overs old England are going to have to be patient. vd Dussen might not be comfortable with that finger but he's hanging in well. I thought when that third wicket went down we might see a clatter - still might , if one of these comes out - but at present batting looks far from impossible. So could be a rather attritional afternoon...

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Post by Duty281 Sat 27 Aug 2022, 2:27 pm

Thought the no-ball against Broad was very harsh, but he got Markram not long afterward so no harm done.

Into the grind of the afternoon now with a soft ball and two established batsmen. Stokes hasn't bowled yet and, after jarring his knee yesterday, may not do so at all.

Robinson into another spell and keeping his pace in the mid 80s. Good to see.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 27 Aug 2022, 2:32 pm

Very kind of England to not take another wicket whilst I was watching the mighty yellas rack up another win

Looks pretty attritional stuff this PM - one thing is Van Der Dussen/Petersen don't score quickly, so SA likely to still be in decent deficit as and when the 2nd new ball comes around.
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Post by alfie Sat 27 Aug 2022, 2:45 pm

Petersen looks much happier against Leach than the seamers. Not taking any risks - and not exactly doing much on the scorecard - but making England work a lot harder than they did last week when the boot was on the other foot.

Rather a good hour for SA. All helps to wear the England bowlers down. And keeps softening up that ball too. Those with tickets for tomorrow might be getting more hopeful than they would have been this morning...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 27 Aug 2022, 3:03 pm

Good non-review by England - I thought it was plumb, but Robinson heard the inside edge and stopped them rightly!
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Post by alfie Sat 27 Aug 2022, 3:04 pm

Change of plan with Stokes on with the old short ball attack...

Seems a bit "hopeful" to me : hard to see these two taking bouncers on at this stage so it might just be a waste of energy. Guess they have try something different as only Anderson has really threatened since lunch.

Broad thought he had one then...but just as well someone besides the umpire detected that inside edge or they'd have burned a referral ...

Still searching for the break. SA about half way to wiping off the deficit.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 27 Aug 2022, 3:22 pm

Petersen usually quicker than this. A testament to the increasingly slow and low nature of the pitch. Dussen looks hampered by his finger injury.

Partnership 37 overs old, but only a rr of 2.2. It's proper test cricket.

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Post by alfie Sat 27 Aug 2022, 3:38 pm

That was a very decent spell from Broad. Targeted the stumps , and nearly managed to nip one on to the pads once or twice...was a good approach , I think.

Both bats looking pretty secure , though every now and then we see a nibble that might on another day kiss the edge.

Closing on tea : if they get through this will be a terrific session for SA. Still a long way to go even to make England bat again ; but the longer they bat the more the hope will be boosted in their dressing room. England may be wondering how they are going to find a wicket , with the new ball still 16 overs away...

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Post by Duty281 Sat 27 Aug 2022, 3:45 pm

Oh dear, England actually found the edge, but no appeal and certainly no review! 141/3 at tea. The new ball 15 overs away.

Credit to both sides for their discipline. I've previously criticised England for their loose bowling this summer, but they kept it tight and accurate in that session. Leach 0/19 from 19 overs!

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Post by alfie Sat 27 Aug 2022, 4:15 pm

Duty281 wrote:Oh dear, England actually found the edge, but no appeal and certainly no review! 141/3 at tea. The new ball 15 overs away.

Credit to both sides for their discipline. I've previously criticised England for their loose bowling this summer, but they kept it tight and accurate in that session. Leach 0/19 from 19 overs!

Didn't cost too much in the end ! Maybe guilt caused vd Dussen to nibble one he should have left after tea Smile

Stokes as so often getting the vital break. Lot of bowlers queuing up to bat after this pair...


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Post by Duty281 Sat 27 Aug 2022, 4:18 pm

And Stokes getting another. Safe to say it was unplayable. Thank goodness Stokes' injury wasn't serious enough to keep him out of bowling. 103 with the bat and 4/35 with the ball.

Victory tonight looks on again.

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Post by alfie Sat 27 Aug 2022, 4:18 pm

Agree the England bowling has been very disciplined today...

Ah there's another one ! A fierce ball from Stokes and nothing the patient Petersen could have done with that !

That tea interval - and Ben Stokes - has dramatically changed everything...

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Post by VTR Sat 27 Aug 2022, 4:20 pm

He's having some game, batting, bowling and captaincy have all been excellent. Barring a miracle from South Africa he's man of the match by a mile

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Post by alfie Sat 27 Aug 2022, 4:24 pm

Was indeed a brute of a ball ! 67 overs old and still leaping like that...

Stokes seems to shrug off these injury scares so often : thank heavens he's out of the ODI business now. Like to see him leave the t20 too after this next WC to preserve him for the Test side.

Still no joy for Leach ; but I wonder if he might do some damage now they are into the bowlers ? He will have a few more overs before that new ball arrives...

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Post by alfie Sat 27 Aug 2022, 5:04 pm

Just slightly surprised Stokes is still hammering away. Can rest up later I guess but having done the damage I reckon he might give himself a bit of a break and let , say , Leach , Broad and Root count down the last few to the new ball.

Suppose he reckons he's in the groove...but I don't want him knocking himself out.

New ball in two. Lead of 92 still so a mountain for SA to climb but they aren't throwing it away...

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Post by alfie Sat 27 Aug 2022, 5:15 pm

Didn't take Jimmy long to strike !

Far too good for a number seven...that would have done for a lot of batsmen thumbsup

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Post by Duty281 Sat 27 Aug 2022, 5:25 pm

Was a beauty and very fitting as it was Jimmy's 950th international wicket (663 in tests + 269 in ODIs + 18 in T20Is), taking him above McGrath as the seamer with most international wickets in cricket history. Kumble on 956, Warne on 1,001 and Murali on..um...1,347 are the only ones above him.

Anderson's averaging just under 18.5 this summer with a SR of 41.6. Magic.

Now Robinson gets another. Nearly the end.

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Post by alfie Sat 27 Aug 2022, 5:27 pm

Just reward for Robinson. Maharaj had some fun at Lord's but hasn't detained us very long in this game.

You'd think it won't be long now , just three to go. And hopefully no short barrage this time ?

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Post by kingraf Sat 27 Aug 2022, 5:27 pm

It's been an interesting second dig. While acknowledging England have bowled REALLY well, the batting was literally aimless. Given the rate we were scoring, we'd have needed to bat into lunch of day Five for us to stand even a chance, really
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 27 Aug 2022, 5:33 pm

kingraf wrote:It's been an interesting second dig. While acknowledging England have bowled REALLY well, the batting was literally aimless. Given the rate we were scoring, we'd have needed to bat into lunch of day Five for us to stand even a chance, really

Raf you have made a point I was coming on to say - considering the effectiveness of the new ball in this test, surely SA had to show *some* intent once it had gone old to wipe out the deficit...

Anyways, Anderson with another and the end is nigh
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Post by alfie Sat 27 Aug 2022, 5:33 pm

Another one for Jimmy...

Rabada had no answer to that. New ball , Anderson , movement...eight down.

If this were to be Anderson's last Test at his home ground (certainly not assuming it will be !) it would be a good sign off. He's having an excellent summer clap

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Post by alfie Sat 27 Aug 2022, 5:37 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
kingraf wrote:It's been an interesting second dig. While acknowledging England have bowled REALLY well, the batting was literally aimless. Given the rate we were scoring, we'd have needed to bat into lunch of day Five for us to stand even a chance, really

Raf you have made a point I was coming on to say - considering the effectiveness of the new ball in this test, surely SA had to show *some* intent once it had gone old to wipe out the deficit...

Anyways, Anderson with another and the end is nigh

You're both right I guess : but practically speaking I'm not sure SA have the batsmen to do that . At least this way they've made England work , in contrast to the rather meek fold up of the home team in similar circumstances last week.

This game was all over last night really. Only ever a question of time.

And not much more of that as Robinson takes his third...

Fourth day ticket holders will get a refund anyway.

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Post by alfie Sat 27 Aug 2022, 5:45 pm

All done. Four for Robinson....

Thumping win for England and we go to The Oval after a brief break for the decider.

Maybe we might see four or five days there ?

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Post by Duty281 Sat 27 Aug 2022, 5:50 pm

And it's all over. clap

England get thrashed in the first. South Africa get thrashed in the second. Sets it up well for the decider.

England on top for the majority of the game. It was the Stokes and Foakes partnership that took it out of SA's reach, set up by Crawley's gritty innings, and the bowling was a fine all-round effort, with the exception of Leach who will be disappointed to only pick up one wicket. Anderson 6/62, Broad 4/61, Stokes 4/47 and Robinson 5/91. All good. Broad's not finished yet and Anderson is more magnificent at 40 than he was at 30.

South Africa got this wrong from the start. Wrong call to bat. Wrong call to pick two spinners. They were playing catch-up from the beginning. Presumably they'll get Jansen in for Harmer for the finale. Markram may also face the drop.

Wouldn't like to call the decider!

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Post by sirfredperry Sat 27 Aug 2022, 5:52 pm

Well, that team selection and toss decision by SA worked out well.

Classic case of it aint' bust, don't fix it.

But SA should have been warned by England's mercurial home form. So often in recent years a dire performance has been followed by a resounding win.

Have to now consider - although there would have been earlier consideration - that Stokes is England's best all-rounder since Botham. OK, Freddie was pretty good. But he only scored five Test hundreds. Stokes has 12 already and should match Freddie's 200-plus wickets.


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Post by Galted Sat 27 Aug 2022, 6:21 pm

It's 14 tests now between England and SA since there was a close(ish) result (SA winning by 51 runs in 2012).

Since then each test has been a win by an innings, by 100 or more runs or by 5 or more wickets. 14 of the last 20 have been won by either an innings, or by more than 175 runs.

Pretty fascinating stuff if you're me.

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Post by VTR Sat 27 Aug 2022, 6:39 pm

That 2012 match wasn't close either, England were well beaten before having a late thrash to make it look more respectable than it was. It is odd because they are usually decent series, but we don't really see any classic matches

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Post by Galted Sat 27 Aug 2022, 7:53 pm

VTR wrote:That 2012 match wasn't close either, England were well beaten before having a late thrash to make it look more respectable than it was. It is odd because they are usually decent series, but we don't really see any classic matches

That makes the draws in Centurion and Cape Town in 09/10 the last tense matches.

The last genuinely close victory was the Cronje match-fixing game in 2000.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 27 Aug 2022, 8:16 pm

The crucial one at Edgbaston in 2008 was close. SA 134/4 when Smith was pinned plumb LBW by Monty. In a DRS era pound to a penny it would have been given. But it was pre-DRS (harsh times for spinners) and given not out. Smith added another 80 runs and SA won by five wickets.

But yes, England-South Africa is always box office in cricket, even if there's a fair few thrashings. Every series is top dollar, especially 2003 and 2004/5. And I remember at the 2011 ODI World Cup (the one where England were on acid and all sorts of weird and wonderful things happened) South Africa were 124/3, chasing 172, and were bowled out for 165, after Jimmy bowled ABDV with something magic.  That had a test feel with Anderson, Broad and Swann in the attack. Great rivalry.

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Post by VTR Sat 27 Aug 2022, 8:38 pm

Going back a while now but the 1998 series, I'd say that's the second best series I've seen after the 2005 Ashes. An incredible series that England really had no right to win. Best not talk about decisions that would have been different under DRS in that series, it would fill an entire book!

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Post by Galted Sat 27 Aug 2022, 10:05 pm

Duty281 wrote:The crucial one at Edgbaston in 2008 was close. SA 134/4 when Smith was pinned plumb LBW by Monty. In a DRS era pound to a penny it would have been given. But it was pre-DRS (harsh times for spinners) and given not out. Smith added another 80 runs and SA won by five wickets.

But yes, England-South Africa is always box office in cricket, even if there's a fair few thrashings. Every series is top dollar, especially 2003 and 2004/5. And I remember at the 2011 ODI World Cup (the one where England were on acid and all sorts of weird and wonderful things happened) South Africa were 124/3, chasing 172, and were bowled out for 165, after Jimmy bowled ABDV with something magic.  That had a test feel with Anderson, Broad and Swann in the attack. Great rivalry.

The Edgbaston game does sneak under the radar when you look at results without context.  In the end it was comfortable for SA but was looking like being comfortable for England for a while.

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Post by kingraf Sat 27 Aug 2022, 10:13 pm

alfie wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
kingraf wrote:It's been an interesting second dig. While acknowledging England have bowled REALLY well, the batting was literally aimless. Given the rate we were scoring, we'd have needed to bat into lunch of day Five for us to stand even a chance, really

Raf you have made a point I was coming on to say - considering the effectiveness of the new ball in this test, surely SA had to show *some* intent once it had gone old to wipe out the deficit...

Anyways, Anderson with another and the end is nigh

You're both right I guess : but practically speaking I'm not sure SA have the batsmen to do that . At least this way they've made England work , in contrast to the rather meek fold up of the home team in similar circumstances last week.

This game was all over last night really. Only ever a question of time.

And not much more of that as Robinson takes his third...

Fourth day ticket holders will get a refund anyway.

As a fan, I can accept the game was done when Englands lead ballooned to 150. But as a professional cricketer, I'd hope you at least go into an innings with a team-discussed map to getting the best possible result. To that end, I just don't see how deciding to stone wall was the best approach. I'm okay with losing. Being fair to the Test team, under Elgar they really haven't done much of that, so a loss, even a bad one isn't the end of the world (of course given our future tour programme, you could even argue it doesn't even matter as there's no future to be building to).

If Elgar and the management team agreed with your view that we don't have the batsmen to try score a big total in the third innings... then I think that actually makes the decision to bat look even worse.
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Post by Duty281 Sat 27 Aug 2022, 11:24 pm

VTR wrote:Going back a while now but the 1998 series, I'd say that's the second best series I've seen after the 2005 Ashes. An incredible series that England really had no right to win. Best not talk about decisions that would have been different under DRS in that series, it would fill an entire book!

Yeah, Atherton mentioned the 1998 series on commentary this morning. He said that the poor umpiring calls in that series contributed to a very unfriendly atmosphere on the field, and DRS has taken a large bit of that edge and nastiness away.

For better or for worse, who knows?

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Post by Duty281 Sun 28 Aug 2022, 1:35 am

Duty281 wrote:https://resources.ecb.co.uk/ecb/document/2022/08/25/5ed38d62-72c0-45d3-9514-aa3b310ca067/Men-s-High-Performance-Review-Consultation-Material-FCCs.pdf

ECB high-performance review has just been released. The fact they've released it during a test seems to indicate they want it to pass under the radar. Broadly speaking:

- Too much FC cricket is played. There needs to be less.
- The top division of the County Championship needs to be made smaller in terms of team numbers. Bonus points to incentivise better pitches.
- Spinners need to bowl more overs in red ball.
- Different balls could be used in the red ball competition.
- English players playing FC cricket overseas is a good thing and doesn't currently happen enough. Proposals to remedy this include a 'north v south' red-ball game in the UAE and an 'overseas club programme' for certain players. Like the second idea.
- The Lions need to play more cricket, like India A do, and the focus should be 80-20 in favour of red-ball cricket. Reinstate U17 international cricket.
- They like the Hundred. The T20 Blast should be optimised to maximise attendances.
- The 50-over comp should be played in April and should involve the 'strongest possible' teams. Yes.
- Counties who develop elite players should be compensated accordingly.
- The aim is to make England the world's best men's team in all formats in five years. Haha, these changes will take longer than that to yield results.

Overall, the review just seems to be 'let's copy what other countries and sports are doing', with nothing really innovative about it. Other countries have a smaller domestic FC competition than us? OK, let's make ours smaller. Spinners bowl more overs overseas than our spinners? Right, our spinners should bowl more overs then. The Championship in football promotes 13% of teams, while the second division of county cricket promotes 25%? Well let's make it smaller then. There's also a bizarre comparison to how the gap between Division One and Division Two isn't as big as the gap between the PL and the Championship in football.

Added to this, Key has said some more things:

- The Hundred will continue to be played in August, but Key believes the County Championship can co-exist and also be played in August. Key thinks England would have been better served for this test series if domestic red ball cricket had been played just before (for current England players to get a warm-up) and during (for prospective players to push for selection) the tests.
- This is also based on the data that 2/3rds of England's leading FC players are not in the Hundred and are currently limited to playing in the very limited 50-over comp.
- However the counties are split on this idea and will vote on this, alongside other reforms, on the 20th September. Reforms to the schedule require 66%+ support.
- Key is still adamant England players play too much cricket domestically and have no time to 'practise and prepare'.
- Key is still planning on appointing a national selector, but he said that a while ago, and the longer it goes without one the less likely there will be one.

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Post by alfie Sun 28 Aug 2022, 7:42 am

kingraf wrote:
alfie wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
kingraf wrote:It's been an interesting second dig. While acknowledging England have bowled REALLY well, the batting was literally aimless. Given the rate we were scoring, we'd have needed to bat into lunch of day Five for us to stand even a chance, really

Raf you have made a point I was coming on to say - considering the effectiveness of the new ball in this test, surely SA had to show *some* intent once it had gone old to wipe out the deficit...

Anyways, Anderson with another and the end is nigh

You're both right I guess : but practically speaking I'm not sure SA have the batsmen to do that . At least this way they've made England work , in contrast to the rather meek fold up of the home team in similar circumstances last week.

This game was all over last night really. Only ever a question of time.

And not much more of that as Robinson takes his third...

Fourth day ticket holders will get a refund anyway.

As a fan, I can accept the game was done when Englands lead ballooned to 150. But as a professional cricketer, I'd hope you at least go into an innings with a team-discussed map to getting the best possible result. To that end, I just don't see how deciding to stone wall was the best approach. I'm okay with losing. Being fair to the Test team, under Elgar they really haven't done much of that, so a loss, even a bad one isn't the end of the world (of course given our future tour programme, you could even argue it doesn't even matter as there's no future to be building to).

If Elgar and the management team agreed with your view that we don't have the batsmen to try score a big total in the third innings... then I think that actually makes the decision to bat look even worse.

Oh I didn't actually mean SA do not have the bats to score big runs : just that (they almost certainly believe) the only way they were likely to do that was to play attritional cricket ; because a more aggressive approach is just too much of a risk with such a long tail ... and to be honest , who among the top five is capable of dominating a high class attack and scoring at a rapid rate ? Especially with vd Dussen handicapped by the injury ?

Could they have been more positive ? Not with three down early , I'd suggest. The stonewall approach may have always been doomed to failure ; but I reckon had Petersen got out before lunch to a "brave" shot , the game would have been over before tea.

Batting first was a bad call anyway. As was gambling on two spinners ; but the worst decision was leaving out Jansen. He should have at the least played ahead of Ngidi : Harmer is not a Test number seven !

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Post by king_carlos Mon 29 Aug 2022, 4:22 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:https://resources.ecb.co.uk/ecb/document/2022/08/25/5ed38d62-72c0-45d3-9514-aa3b310ca067/Men-s-High-Performance-Review-Consultation-Material-FCCs.pdf

ECB high-performance review has just been released. The fact they've released it during a test seems to indicate they want it to pass under the radar. Broadly speaking:

- Too much FC cricket is played. There needs to be less.
- The top division of the County Championship needs to be made smaller in terms of team numbers. Bonus points to incentivise better pitches.
- Spinners need to bowl more overs in red ball.
- Different balls could be used in the red ball competition.
- English players playing FC cricket overseas is a good thing and doesn't currently happen enough. Proposals to remedy this include a 'north v south' red-ball game in the UAE and an 'overseas club programme' for certain players. Like the second idea.
- The Lions need to play more cricket, like India A do, and the focus should be 80-20 in favour of red-ball cricket. Reinstate U17 international cricket.
- They like the Hundred. The T20 Blast should be optimised to maximise attendances.
- The 50-over comp should be played in April and should involve the 'strongest possible' teams. Yes.
- Counties who develop elite players should be compensated accordingly.
- The aim is to make England the world's best men's team in all formats in five years. Haha, these changes will take longer than that to yield results.

Overall, the review just seems to be 'let's copy what other countries and sports are doing', with nothing really innovative about it. Other countries have a smaller domestic FC competition than us? OK, let's make ours smaller. Spinners bowl more overs overseas than our spinners? Right, our spinners should bowl more overs then. The Championship in football promotes 13% of teams, while the second division of county cricket promotes 25%? Well let's make it smaller then. There's also a bizarre comparison to how the gap between Division One and Division Two isn't as big as the gap between the PL and the Championship in football.

Added to this, Key has said some more things:

- The Hundred will continue to be played in August, but Key believes the County Championship can co-exist and also be played in August. Key thinks England would have been better served for this test series if domestic red ball cricket had been played just before (for current England players to get a warm-up) and during (for prospective players to push for selection) the tests.
- This is also based on the data that 2/3rds of England's leading FC players are not in the Hundred and are currently limited to playing in the very limited 50-over comp.
- However the counties are split on this idea and will vote on this, alongside other reforms, on the 20th September. Reforms to the schedule require 66%+ support.
- Key is still adamant England players play too much cricket domestically and have no time to 'practise and prepare'.
- Key is still planning on appointing a national selector, but he said that a while ago, and the longer it goes without one the less likely there will be one.

I like the idea of keeping the CC going during the Hundred. Even the opportunity to use out grounds for more variety of pitches during that month I really like.

I like getting the younger players playing overseas more. That system with Dravid in charge of the A-team did wonders for India. Investing in an academy in Sri Lanka for instance could be a brilliant longer term move for England's bowling and playing of spin.

I also really like the 50-over comp being at the very start of the season, short and sweet. As discussed previously I'd also support a return to 40 over rather than 50 over for the domestic game as from personal experience when I used to view a fair bit of CC cricket growing up I enjoyed it more. That viewing was at an array of counties as well given my father being in the forces meant moving around a lot. I saw a decent bit of cricket at Headingley, The Oval and Chelmsford due to varying places we lived so I don't think it was just a case of enjoying 40 over more as the side I watched a lot at that time were good for instance.

It's not a popular view but I don't agree that having red ball cricket just before or during Test series is as necessary as many make out though. How many Test sides in recent years have we watched be far better than England with the same or less red ball cricket leading into a series? Genuine Test quality players tend to be Test level without the need for multiple F-C games before T1 of a series. Players clearly that bit below Test quality tend to perform below Test level regardless of playing all their CC games before the first Test of the summer.

The key there for me is having a F-C tournament with such a high standard that you create genuine Test class options by exposing players to that standard early and consistently. Playing a lots of cricket way below Test standard wont produce or prepare Test players just because it happens to use a red ball. McGrath is a fantastic example here given he played only 65 non-Test F-C games in his career.

As is so often the case we need more quality not more quantity.

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Post by king_carlos Mon 29 Aug 2022, 4:31 pm

Also interesting is the last page of the review where they discuss central contracts with proposed changes of:

- Higher allocations to multi format players, multi year deals
That extra cash and security of longer term deals will hopefully help keep availability fairly good in the short term at least.

- Match fees covering higher % of pay for players who specialise in one format
More pay as you play basically which given availability for bilateral white ball series is all over the shop probably makes sense.

- Maintenance of fast bowler contracts
Presumably meaning the contracts for fast bowlers will have built in clauses about work load? If so also seems to make a lot of sense.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 30 Aug 2022, 12:01 pm

Yes, I agree that the C.C. should be played during the Hundred (if the Hundred has to be played at all). Some counties are apparently against the idea, however, because they may lose some of their best players to the Hundred, but I can't think of too many examples.

I would like to see FC cricket playing during the tests mainly for the benefit of players hoping to come in, or push for inclusion. If England, for instance, wanted to call up Brook for the third test, he's had no FC cricket for over a month and would be coming in cold.

I agree about quality v quantity, but I think a similar number of games could be retained while boosting quality. A top division of six teams, with talent concentrated in that top division, would see high-quality games, and if teams played each other thrice in a season that would see fifteen games for each side.

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Post by king_carlos Tue 30 Aug 2022, 3:34 pm

I just don't see the need for fifteen F-C games per side in a season. A top league of 6 counties playing each other twice so 10 high quality games played on good pitches, with different balls and at the right time of summer would be plenty for me. 15 F-C games is a potential 60 days of F-C cricket in a summer. I just don't see the necessity for that and think it would increase injury risk, reduce opportunity for coaching and training, risk seeing a continuation of the coasting we already see from some top players in CC due to the overly long season.

A sometimes overlooked aspect of F-C cricket is that it means more time away from home for players as well given the games last 4 days. So much of a county season is spent on the road and travelling for players, it really isn't he healthiest thing either physically or mentally. George Bailey for instance has spoken about how his time in county cricket ended up giving him sciatica as he was spending so much time sat in cars and on motorways! Many players have of course spoken about the mental toll of the county season.

My view for a while, again I know it's unpopular, is that I don't actually think a month for instance is a long time between red ball games for a genuine Test quality player. We see many go far far longer and not look out of sorts. I just find it something a bit blown out of proportion in English cricket especially when the Test side loses. Lots were up in arms after T1 for instance about no CC the week before especially with Potts struggling to find the same postcode as a good length. Few seemed to note that of the Proteas seam attack that blew England away only Jansen played in their single non F-C warmup game.

I'm not saying that players need no recent red ball match practice either. For instance when players are recalled after a long time away from Tests having played no F-C cricket for seasons or maybe a notional one or two CC games after getting a tap on the shoulder I find that farcical. If a player hasn't been in F-C cricket for years then you need a good run of games. I don't think a player such as Brook for instance who has played 8 CC games this season already (and that century in the non F-C Lions vs SA game) is in sudden need of red ball practice the week before a Test though.

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