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The 2023 Cricket World Cup

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Post by Duty281 Mon 18 Sep 2023, 1:09 pm

First topic message reminder :

After the drama-free finish to the 2019 Cricket World Cup, the 2023 Cricket World Cup will finally get under way on the 5th October, having been initially delayed by Covid and then threatened by a Pakistani boycott.

England are the defending champions, and they're also the reigning T20 World Champions. Doubleplusgood, eh? They're looking to be the first nation to win consecutive ODI World Cups since the Aussie vintage of 1999-2007. Biggest adversaries to that are likely to be India, who haven't won a major global competition since the 2013 Champions Trophy, but will no doubt be heartened by the knowledge that the last three ODI World Cups have been won by a host nation.

Five-time winners Australia can never be ruled out, while Pakistan are fueled by a burning motivation to win the World Cup in the homeland of their greatest rivals. New Zealand have made the last two finals - losing the last on boundary count, would you believe? - and will hope to make the final step this year.

South Africa will presumably think they're due to win something, as they've not won a global competition since the 1998 Champions Trophy, while the Afghans will believe they can spin anyone into submission. Bangladesh will be hoping to make a sizable impact at the ODI World Cup for the first time.

Sri Lanka breezed through qualifying and will be encouraged by making the recent Asia Cup final, even if they did get hammered in said final. The Netherlands round off the ten teams after performing minor miracles in qualification, which of course means the West Indies, the winners of the first two ODI World Cups, will be missing out on this tournament for the very first time.

The ten-team format for the World Cup remains as simple as ever. Ten teams all play each other once, and the top four teams in the group at the end of it go through to the semi-finals, where it becomes a straight knockout. 48 matches total. There will be reserve days for the three knockout matches and, if necessary, Super Overs. But you can't win games on boundary count anymore...

Fixtures:

Tournament Odds:

Squad Lists (Teams have until the 28th September to finalise their squads):


Last edited by Duty281 on Thu 28 Sep 2023, 3:36 pm; edited 6 times in total

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Post by GSC Tue 10 Oct 2023, 9:06 am

Rather let NZ off the hook with the bat, don't seem in the mood to do the same today
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 10 Oct 2023, 9:36 am

GSC wrote:Rather let NZ off the hook with the bat, don't seem in the mood to do the same today

*insert curb your enthusiasm theme music*
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Post by VTR Tue 10 Oct 2023, 9:37 am

GSC wrote:Rather let NZ off the hook with the bat, don't seem in the mood to do the same today
Fizzling out in a bit of a heap sadly, the finishers haven't really come off. Still going to be a very good score though, and will be pretty shocking if they can't defend it

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Post by GSC Tue 10 Oct 2023, 9:37 am

At least we had 300 on the board this time 😶
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Post by GSC Tue 10 Oct 2023, 9:39 am

Scruffy effort after getting to 300 with 10 to go, suggests it might not be the easiest pitch to start quickly on. Root and Malan cashed in though.

Should still be a pretty good total, England's bowlers could use a performance though
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Post by guildfordbat Tue 10 Oct 2023, 9:42 am

Curran out for 11 off 15. Olly won’t be happy.

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Post by GSC Tue 10 Oct 2023, 9:46 am

The plan is clearly to lose wickets so the opposing team goes past the cutoff time and has to bring a fielder in
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Post by alfie Tue 10 Oct 2023, 9:47 am

Falling away a bit with late wickets... No-one able to really get going after Malan and Root so not getting near that 400...

May not last the fifty overs here. But 350 plus should be plenty.

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Post by GSC Tue 10 Oct 2023, 9:55 am

The state of the outfield for a world cup, especially early in the tournament is appalling
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Post by GSC Tue 10 Oct 2023, 10:00 am

364-9 after 50 then. Looked like it could've been 400 with 10 to go but regular wickets rather checked the momentum.

It *should* be an imposing total. England's bowlers could use a performance after NZ though
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Post by alfie Tue 10 Oct 2023, 10:00 am

66/6 off the last ten... Credit to Bangladesh for bowling well at the death clap



...and 364/9 it ends up. Maybe left 25-30 runs out there ? But we will see how Bangladesh bat on this. Really hope to see an improvement from the England bowling !

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Post by dummy_half Tue 10 Oct 2023, 10:03 am

So 364-9 in the end. You'd certainly have taken that at the start of the innings, but a bit disappointing to only add 100-8 in the last 13 overs- there will be other matches where we will need to be getting 130-150 in those closing overs from the platform that Malan and Root gave.

You would hope that should be more than enough to beat Bangadesh though

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Post by KP_fan Tue 10 Oct 2023, 10:04 am

Eng finish 36 short of the 400 that looked highly likely
BUT they have 36 too many to be chased....don't see BD going beyond 320-330
BD will rue not having used the slow ball earlier....the Mahedi guy is very clever as I saw him choke India down in Asia cup and today too.

Eng have shown a weakness to slow bowling and slower balls two games in a row, but have dodged the impact of this today
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Post by alfie Tue 10 Oct 2023, 10:07 am

No Moeen today : wonder if Root will bowl a few overs ? Might be a good time to see what he can do with a view to later games as flexibility could be important.

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Post by GSC Tue 10 Oct 2023, 10:29 am

It is a score England only topped on two of their five attempts batting first in 2019. But we preferred the bowling lineup in those conditions to what we have currently
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Post by GSC Tue 10 Oct 2023, 10:43 am

Great start from Topley, Woakes is still a bit off early on
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Post by GSC Tue 10 Oct 2023, 10:56 am

3 from 3 overs for Topley, might be an opportunity for England to address their NRR after that bruising first game.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 10 Oct 2023, 11:03 am

The more we get into this, the more I think in terms of construction of XI this is the right balance - and when Stokes is back it's a case of whether he comes in for Brook or Livingstone

Having two proper new ball bowlers in Topley and Woakes (and Willey in reserve) is key. Allows Wood to be saved for the middle and later overs as well as Curran.
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Post by dummy_half Tue 10 Oct 2023, 11:07 am

Game of two ends at the moment - Woakes being pinged to the boundary repeatedly, 4 overs for 34, while Topley is causing all sorts of trounle at the other end - 3 overs, 3 wickets for 5

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Post by VTR Tue 10 Oct 2023, 11:08 am

Agree, also given the fact that Moeen's batting is largely theoretical, I wouldn't even say the batting is particularly weakened. Moeen possibly comes in for Curran on a turning wicket

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Post by Duty281 Tue 10 Oct 2023, 11:22 am

Well this has been a much better day at the office. Malan superb once again - 6 centuries in his last 17 ODI innings, this one the biggest and quickest of the lot. And Root with runs again means that he has rediscovered his form. Maybe a slight disappointment not to make 400.

Topley has obviously justified his inclusion. I'm not really sure why they didn't play him in the first game, not a mistake England will be making again!

All good. Heading for 1-1 after two, which is where England were after two games in 2019.

The other game is shaping up in Sri Lanka's favour. Only followed the scorecard of this one, but Sri Lanka are 166/2 after 23 overs, with Kusal Mendis continuing his assault from the last game, but going on a bit further this time.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 10 Oct 2023, 12:10 pm

Liton Das is a lovely player to watch bat
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Post by GSC Tue 10 Oct 2023, 12:31 pm

NRR is another area of cricket it feels like you need a maths degree to understand. Anyway rather feels like Bangladesh have settled for batting the overs to protect it since Das got out
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Post by dummy_half Tue 10 Oct 2023, 12:54 pm

Not sure Bangladesh will make it through to the 50 overs - 19 more to come with only 4 wickets in hand.

Not sure why batting 50 overs would be beneficial for NRR compared with getting more runs in less time - i thought for innings that are all out in less than 50 overs, the run rate was calculated as actual runs scored divided by the 50 overs, so all out for 250 all out in 46 overs is better than 240-9 in 50?

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Post by alfie Tue 10 Oct 2023, 12:59 pm

Pakistan going to have to chase a few today...Sri Lanka 311/5 with six left. Could be a bit of an upset ?

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Post by Duty281 Tue 10 Oct 2023, 1:05 pm

alfie wrote:Pakistan going to have to chase a few today...Sri Lanka 311/5 with six left. Could be a bit of an upset ?

Think it will be tough for Sri Lanka to defend this, actually, unless the wicket slows up. It's been very good for batting and Sri Lanka's bowling is quite weak. But scoreboard pressure can do things...

Kusal Mendis has blasted Sri Lanka's fastest WC century, with Samarawickrama following up with a ton of his own. But a couple of the other batsmen have slowed things up.

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Post by dummy_half Tue 10 Oct 2023, 1:16 pm

SL still with 3 overs left - would be disappointed not to pass 360, which is a score that always takes a lot of chasing,

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Post by VTR Tue 10 Oct 2023, 1:19 pm

Why even try and predict what Pakistan will do. It will be something like they either win by 9 wickets with 10 overs to spare, or they are bowled out for 80

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Post by Duty281 Tue 10 Oct 2023, 1:28 pm

Bit of a flat end from Sri Lanka, they only made 344, which means they went at under run a ball pace for the last 20. Fault there was with Shanaka and Dhananjaya, who chewed up numerous dots and made a combined 37 off 52, undermining the efforts from Mendis and Samarawickrama.

This would be a record WC chase, but I do think Pakistan should chase it down with the small boundaries, fast outfield, dew and Sri Lanka's injury-hit bowling attack all in their favour. Although the Sri Lankans do have Theekshana back from injury, a lot depends on him.

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Post by GSC Tue 10 Oct 2023, 1:30 pm

Maybe they should allow the captains to shake hands and call it a day in ODIs. This game has felt like both sides going through the motions for quite a while.

With 2 wickets left it might not be long though
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Post by KP_fan Tue 10 Oct 2023, 1:31 pm

Just like BD ........Pak too pulled it back significantly in the last 10 overs
BUT just like Eng......I think Lanka has a lot...Pak ain't getting there, but you'd expect Pak to put a better fight than BD did.

Eng will heal their NRR and confidence as their juggernaut is well rolling now
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Post by alfie Tue 10 Oct 2023, 1:31 pm

Pakistan did well at the end there and kept Sri Lanka to 343 - seems less than they ought to have made from their earlier position. But something to defend.

And as Rashid gets one at last England will fancy finishing this quickly and getting a bit of a repair job on that NRR...

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Post by Duty281 Tue 10 Oct 2023, 2:04 pm

Job done. A big win in more ways than one. Full credit to Malan, Root and Topley. Afghanistan next and hopefully England can start generating momentum in the competition.

Meanwhile, Sri Lanka have bungled a run-out chance in the first over.

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Post by GSC Tue 10 Oct 2023, 2:11 pm

Routine win in the end without any of the middle order firing.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 10 Oct 2023, 2:29 pm

Much better and needed result for England - never really in any doubt. Good to see Topley bowling well, think if England are going to be successful in this tournament it's becoming clear we're going to need early wickets in the first powerplay, as we are lacking a bit in the middle overs (they never really did replace Plunkett did they!).

Root finding some form is key too - throughout the whole white ball revolution he's been the glue to the batting lineup, and was crucial in 2019 too. Off to a great start in this tournament too

Bit concerned about Livingstone/Curran/Moeen in the 6/7 spots in the lineup though. Kinda feel like we're just trying to muddle through with them batting wise...I do wonder if we just bite the bullet and insert Stokes for Livingstone and use Root as the 6th bowler for a few overs if we can...and really strengthen that top 6
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Post by king_carlos Tue 10 Oct 2023, 3:49 pm

A crushing win to get things back on track but also repair that net run rate a fair bit. Cracking stuff. Though I must say I feel relieved more than elated!

I am a fan of Malan scoring runs whenever he's questioned then clothing it along the practice strip for 13 off 29 balls whenever he's more heralded. He'll likely get a couple of low scores now, knives will be sharpened, then another century.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Much better and needed result for England - never really in any doubt. Good to see Topley bowling well, think if England are going to be successful in this tournament it's becoming clear we're going to need early wickets in the first powerplay, as we are lacking a bit in the middle overs (they never really did replace Plunkett did they!).
Plunkett is a massive loss but I do feel Dilly isn't quite where he was 4 years ago. Still a very good bowler and absolutely vital to this team. He was absolutely elite as a middle overs bowler from 2016-2019 though. When factoring in the roads and small boundaries England opted to play on at home his numbers are outstanding.

Looking back at 2019. Jofra was elite in the PP, middle and death. Woakes elite in the PP. Rashid and Plunkett elite in the middle. Wood wasn't elite in any phase but was dangerous in all three. Then Stokes was useful in the middle overs. The PP was locked down then then the middle stacked with three elite options plus Wood and Stokes to largely be used as it suited them. Now Jof is crocked, Plunkett retired, Dilly's slightly decline from a brilliant peak and Stokes' missing a leg. The middle has gone from an abundance of options to not a lot.

Analysts sometimes talk about "3 phase bowlers" offering as much to balance an ODI side as an all-rounder these days. An option that is world class whenever needed makes the 6th bowler less necessary so allows more batting depth as an all-rounder conventionally would. Between Jof offering that and Stokes being an oh so rare seam bowling all-rounder England's job balancing the 2019 side was pretty easy in the end.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Bit concerned about Livingstone/Curran/Moeen in the 6/7 spots in the lineup though. Kinda feel like we're just trying to muddle through with them batting wise...I do wonder if we just bite the bullet and insert Stokes for Livingstone and use Root as the 6th bowler for a few overs if we can...and really strengthen that top 6
That's very much my view as mentioned a few times. 6 best batters and 5 best bowlers. I'm a Livi fan but he's not really developed into the ODI finisher many hoped at 6, whilst his useful bowling hasn't been used much yet. Buttler at 6 just gives ludicrous depth. Maybe that just feels safe to me though. England can be ballsing up an innings majorly and if Jos is yet to come it feels rescuable.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 10 Oct 2023, 3:58 pm

I'm happy with the balance as is now. I think once Stokes comes in for Brook then that's the strongest available XI England have.

Also feel more relieved about the win than anything else! Root's return to form is a precious thing, and I just hope the middle order can find their touch before the fourth game against South Africa.

Pakistan v Sri Lanka might be the first close finish of the World Cup. Imam and Babar out early, but Shafique and Rizwan have rebuilt the innings with a 100 partnership. Just over 200 needed in 24 overs ensures it's still a steep task.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 10 Oct 2023, 4:24 pm

97-ball ton for Shafique. clap

Pakistan still only two down inside the final 19 overs.

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Post by dummy_half Tue 10 Oct 2023, 4:26 pm

Pakistan have recovered excellently from a shaky start t their run chase, and now look like favourites with about 150 needed in 18 overs and 8 wickets in hand

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Post by Duty281 Tue 10 Oct 2023, 4:29 pm

Foot firmly pressed on the accelerator now - 19 off that last over, helped by one of the biggest no-balls you'll ever see!

Sri Lanka need a clatter of wickets or this one is done.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 10 Oct 2023, 5:20 pm

Shafique fell to an excellent catch, but Rizwan has battled through debilitating cramp to get another century.

Three down, 69 needed off 53.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 10 Oct 2023, 5:51 pm

It's cruise control now for Pakistan as they rattle off this record WC chase, thanks to Rizwan and Shafique.

I didn't think Sri Lanka's 344 was enough and (it's a weird thing to say about a total that large) I thought it was 50 short of what they needed. What cost them was the coasting in the final 20 overs of their innings, where they chewed up the dots and strolled along as though they thought they had more than enough.

Their injury-hit bowling attack isn't good enough to compete. Theekshana only got one wicket and by then it was too late. Pathirana is one of the worst bowlers I've seen at this level, no accuracy at all, and Dhananjaya struggles with getting the right length.

2-0 for Pakistan. Perfect start, done the necessary, but must be remembered they've only played two of the weakest sides at this World Cup so far. India next...!

Tomorrow's game is India/Afghanistan. Hope the Afghan bowlers can make it interesting!

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Post by KP_fan Tue 10 Oct 2023, 6:30 pm

could not watch only followed the scorecard
Pak pulled up a stunning win and in addtion to their being brilliant , Lanka would have to be terrible
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Post by KP_fan Wed 11 Oct 2023, 7:59 am

Observations so far....

If the yardstick of who is ahead now was as the sides beat top world-cup contenders
than India and NZ would be the top two.

On form and strength the semi-finalists appear to 4 of:
SA, Eng, Aus, NZ, Pak & Ind
Off them NZ & SA have looked the strongest 2

Lanka has good batting but weak bowling which appears even weaker due to poor planning / captaincy
BD doesn't look like having the fire power even though they beat Afg.


BUT early days.....7 to 8 more rounds to go
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Post by alfie Wed 11 Oct 2023, 8:23 am

Very happy with the England win , especially as it rather restored the NRR horror from game one. More so as it perhaps showed the first match performance was more "rust" than anything else. Caveat being this was "only" Bangladesh : but they did look better in a number of ways. OK , middle order didn't fire but will wait and see more before getting too bothered about that. Would be nice to have Stokes back , but better make sure he is really ready rather than take a risk.

My pre-tournament doubts about England are still there (though I am not writing them off) Basically it seems to me that this side is not as good as the 2019 version - and that one ended up with a narrow final victory , with home ground advantage ; although it is probably fair to say that they showed themselves to be clearly the best over the course of the competition despite needing the super over at the end. So winning in India presents a challenge.

Why not as good ?  Well (apart from Stokes being just a bat this time) they have seven survivors and you wouldn't say any of those are massively better now than four years ago , would you ? And Malan/Livingstone/Curran/Topley as a group surely aren't the equal of Roy/Morgan/Plunkett/Archer. So they are going to need to play at their absolute best and then some...

However : Malan and Topley in this game - and some recent non-WC performances - have gone some way to making up that gap : if they continue like that the signs are promising. Making the knock outs arguably should be "par" for the team (though it is by no means guaranteed ) and once there it only needs two top efforts and a bit of luck. Not putting money on them yet with several tough games to come but at least they've demonstrated the ability to bounce back from a shocker even without anything special from some of the main players.
Do think , like KC , that Rashid remains a major key ; and I hope he can prove that his apparent decline is somewhat exaggerated. Because there just isn't anyone who can cover for him ...  Thought there were some good signs as his spells progressed yesterday.

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Post by KP_fan Wed 11 Oct 2023, 9:14 am

alfie wrote:

Why not as good ?  Well (apart from Stokes being just a bat this time) they have seven survivors and you wouldn't say any of those are massively better now than four years ago , would you ? And Malan/Livingstone/Curran/Topley as a group surely aren't the equal of Roy/Morgan/Plunkett/Archer. So they are going to need to play at their absolute best and then some...
 

On Eng 2023 vs Eng 2019.
....my high level take
Pace bowling then was better Stokes, Plunket and Archer
batting & depth of batting no difference
Spin resources....same or a bit more...given that Root hasreveled  as a credible part-timer when pitches assist and there is Livingstone
Knowing how to play limited over cricket.....Eng have significantly evolved as a confident side with belief


Last edited by KP_fan on Wed 11 Oct 2023, 9:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by KP_fan Wed 11 Oct 2023, 9:19 am

India play shardul for Ashwin...confirming to the template that pitch should assist seamers a bit and Ind deems Afg to be "weaker" facing seam

Afg bat first...that's probably OK...runs on the board is better and then hope India falls in spin trap and chokes.

Some might claim Dew will hurt when bowling second ...well there is much less dew likely in Delhi then in southern Indian cities like Chennai because of lesser humidity levels in north

see as an example today Humidity in Delhi 34% and Chennai 72%
the more the moisture in the air...the more the dew
the more the moisture in the air and some of it precipitating on the pitch...more assistance possible off the seam when that happens.

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Post by KP_fan Wed 11 Oct 2023, 10:33 am

Pitch is by Indian standards got something in it for seamers...tinge of green and bounce...but BD have batted well so far.
If they can get 260-270....they can trouble India
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Post by dummy_half Wed 11 Oct 2023, 10:45 am

Been taking a look at net run rate, and see that it quite unfairly biases to teams winning big batting first.

Let's take England v New Zealand and England v Bangladesh as an example:

First match, England scored 282 - 9 in their complete 50 overs, New Zealand scored 283 in just 36 1/3 overs. Respective run rates 5.64 and 7.79, so a net run rate swing of +/- 1.075

Second match, England score 364 in 50 and bowl Bangladesh out for 227 in 48 1/3 overs. England's run rate 7.28. Bangladesh actual run rate 4.70, reduced to 4.54 over 50 overs, which I reckon gives a net run rate swing of +/-1.37

So England's net run rate after two games should be -1.075 + 1.37 (so about 0.295)? No, it's actually 0.56.

Easy part of the calculation: England have scores 282 + 364 runs (=646 runs) in 100 overs, so have scored at 6.46 runs per over.

They have conceded 283 + 227 (= 510) run, but only bowled 86 1/3 overs (actually 84 2/3, but the Bangladesh all out innings gets extended to 50 overs) so are conceding at 5.90 per over.

Now reverse the NZ v England game and let's assume NZ kept the same run rate over 50 overs, they get 390 - of course the realistic scenario would be for them to accelerate well beyond that given the strength of their batting position at the end of the game, with 420 + looking realistic.
Now re-run the 'conceded' part of the NRR calculation, and England have conceded 390 + 227 = 617 in 100 overs, so a rate of 6.17

Similarly, lets reverse the Bangladesh game - Bangladesh still all out for 227 a bit before the end of the game. Let's assume England knock the runs off at the same rate as they scored through their 50 overs (which is actually a bit conservative given how Malan and Root batted) - would be 31 1/6 overs.
So England's net run rate takes a hit - now scored 282 + 228 (so 510) in 50 + 31 1/6 overs (81 1/6) - drops our scoring rate to 6.29

And so the net run rate could be reduced to +0.12 without any changes to the rate runs are scored and conceded, just on how much scope the team batting second had to score runs.

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Post by KP_fan Wed 11 Oct 2023, 11:47 am

spinners have not been effective and have bowled 11 overs
Ind should look to complete the remaining overs all with seamers........
Afg always look uncertain to seam ....short dug into the body and they retract from the line of the ball
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