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The 2023 Cricket World Cup

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Post by Duty281 Mon 30 Oct 2023, 11:08 am

First topic message reminder :

The ICC apparently changed the Champions Trophy qualification rules in March 2021.

It's just they never told anyone about it, never made a media release, and hence most teams were unaware of the alteration until yesterday.

I'll revise my question from yesterday to: Who on earth makes a change to the qualification format of a supposedly major competition and doesn't bother to tell anyone?

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Post by No name Bertie Sat 04 Nov 2023, 12:04 pm

It seems that England raise their game when they face Australia. Maybe familiarity also has something to do with it.
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Post by GSC Sat 04 Nov 2023, 12:25 pm

Shouldn't have let Australia near 300. With England's batting in this tournament, looks a big chase
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Post by No name Bertie Sat 04 Nov 2023, 12:27 pm

Apparently England are one of the worst sides for getting rid of a tail.    Zampa just holes out finishing on 29 runs from 19 balls.


Last edited by No name Bertie on Sat 04 Nov 2023, 12:30 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Post by VTR Sat 04 Nov 2023, 12:27 pm

Yep, shocking stuff to let Zampa score almost 30!

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Post by Duty281 Sat 04 Nov 2023, 12:28 pm

Decent bowling effort from England. But can the batting finally turn up? It's a makeable target.

Beginning to lose overs in the Pakistan/NZ game. Every over lost makes that chase easier.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 04 Nov 2023, 12:35 pm

41 overs to get 342 - meaning Pakistan need 182 off 117 balls with nine wickets remaining.

Could be tricky for NZ with the bowler allocations. I imagine one bowler gets nine overs and four bowlers get eight. So that means Boult has 4.3 overs left, Southee just the 3, and Sodhi/6th bowler have to find six overs.

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Post by GSC Sat 04 Nov 2023, 12:37 pm

287 to win. Suspect England may have taken that gladly at the toss but given how the innings went, probably 20 too many
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Post by KP_fan Sat 04 Nov 2023, 12:38 pm

Aus's a good score 11 runs above par done well by Aus thru what's a sub par team with Maxwell and Marsh out.
It's a slow, pitch and although Aus has only one spinner Cummins and Stoinis will bowl a lot of slow cutters I believe.

Have Eng learnt they need a get set ,build inning get to 140-2 in 30 overs and 210-3in 40 type chase?
If they go bazballing they won't make it.

There is difference between a D/L sudden stop score where Pak are ahead
Vs a DL target with reduced overs and the latter will not benefit Pak
Fakhr has set Bangalore on 🔥 fire
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Post by Duty281 Sat 04 Nov 2023, 12:43 pm

Knock me down with a feather, it was a 275 par pitch!

Nothing really indicates that England are going to chase it down based on current form, and Australia's bowling has been its strong suit at this tournament, especially with Zampa in form.

Only way England get it is through attack.

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Post by KP_fan Sat 04 Nov 2023, 12:43 pm

8 overs reduced and 59 runs reduced from Pak chase
342 in 42 needed by Pak
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Post by GSC Sat 04 Nov 2023, 12:55 pm

Somewhat unconvinced about par scores. The makeup of the Australian team rather dictates Head/Warner go big early if they're going to put a big total on the board, and no Maxwell to convert the start

England of 2019 would've approached it with the mindset of how quickly can we knock these off. Not sure the 2023 version do the same
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Post by Duty281 Sat 04 Nov 2023, 1:05 pm

Yep, NZ have a big problem with the bowler allocations. They've tried to get through some of Sodhi's spare overs early, but he's been taken for 32 runs off two overs since the resumption and Pakistan are well ahead. Fakhar nailing the biggest sixes at this WC!

And more rain falling...Yep, going off again. Pakistan 21 runs ahead of DLS now thanks to launching Sodhi.

Not the best start for England, I see.

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Post by alfie Sat 04 Nov 2023, 1:15 pm

Missed the latter part of that Aussie innings. They got a few more than I was expecting from 178/5 : but doesn't look too imposing a target.

Except that England have been batting so badly ... And losing Bairstow first ball not the start they wanted. Hope this is Root's day...

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Post by VTR Sat 04 Nov 2023, 1:33 pm

Root and Bairstow so bad this tournament. Actually makes me nostalgic for Wright and Bopara

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Post by Duty281 Sat 04 Nov 2023, 1:33 pm

Looks like Pak/NZ is getting rained off.

Pakistan, eh? Coming late in a tournament, chasing down 402 via DLS....they're going to win this, aren't they? Laugh

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Post by alfie Sat 04 Nov 2023, 1:41 pm

Hard to see England getting anywhere near this target. Two gone already and the tail seems to start around three or four out anyway these days Smile

Still having trouble understanding why all England's batsmen seem to have totally lost it overnight. One or two chaps having a bad series - happens. But all at once ? Bit weird...


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Post by alfie Sat 04 Nov 2023, 1:45 pm

Duty281 wrote:Looks like Pak/NZ is getting rained off.

Pakistan, eh? Coming late in a tournament, chasing down 402 via DLS....they're going to win this, aren't they? Laugh

Yes : rain killing the game in India , eh ? To be fair they've gone a long way towards winning this anyway despite the huge target - but no guarantee they could have maintained that rate for all 402, No matter : they'll be up to equal with NZ and Afghanistan after this. And an easy game against cellar-dweller England to finish...

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Post by No name Bertie Sat 04 Nov 2023, 1:59 pm

Pak/NZ officially called off and Pakistan win on DLS. Just need England to win this and keep the round robin stage interesting by keeping Australia on 8 points.
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Post by Duty281 Sat 04 Nov 2023, 2:01 pm

Yep, it's been called. Pakistan are still alive.

They need to hope Afghanistan don't do anything else in this tournament, that they themselves beat England, and hope SL do them a favour v NZ. If SL can't do them a favour then Pakistan will need a sizable win over England, but they will at least know the full equation beforehand because Pakistan's final match is the last game of any relevance in the group phase.

Means England can stay alive if they win here, also. Might be relying on Malan it seems. Stokes struggling to breach the infield.

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Post by GSC Sat 04 Nov 2023, 2:06 pm

Brook needs to get into this team. Take your pick for who
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Post by GSC Sat 04 Nov 2023, 2:14 pm

Not wholly convinced by the methodology of a DLS win when you still needed 200 odd in 25 overs. Pakistan on top sure but it only takes a couple of wickets to completely slow the rate. Rather suggests Pakistan were playing the DLS score a bit
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Post by Duty281 Sat 04 Nov 2023, 2:26 pm

Yeah, I generally don't like DLS. Gives unfair advantage to the chasing side, almost always.

Stokes with a real graft of a knock here. 50 partnership between these two. England haven't had many of those at this tournament!

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Post by Duty281 Sat 04 Nov 2023, 2:26 pm

GSC wrote:Brook needs to get into this team. Take your pick for who

Starting to think Bairstow.

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Post by alfie Sat 04 Nov 2023, 2:30 pm

GSC wrote:Not wholly convinced by the methodology of a DLS win when you still needed 200 odd in 25 overs. Pakistan on top sure but it only takes a couple of wickets to completely slow the rate. Rather suggests Pakistan were playing the DLS score a bit

Yeah it does seem to assume a bit when the chase is so large... the system isn't perfect but probably fair most of the time. NZ mustn't have been expecting so much rain or they might have used less of their change bowlers before the interruption.

Meanwhile at least pleasing to see Stokes and Malan have actually played sensibly to settle the innings a bit after those early reverses. NRR not out of control so the chase is still "on". But the way England have tended to collapse in all their games doesn't fill me with confidence. Long way to go from here...

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Post by GSC Sat 04 Nov 2023, 2:39 pm

Good to see England get after Stoinis.10 overs are gonna have to come from Stoinis, Head or Green, should be profitable
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Post by GSC Sat 04 Nov 2023, 2:42 pm

Cummins senses he needs to break this partnership and Stoinis is hooked

And there goes Malan... Lot for Stokes to do
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Post by alfie Sat 04 Nov 2023, 2:46 pm

Good fifty for Malan...and fair to say he's been England's best bat in this WC : which is a rather low bar I'm afraid !

But gone now , alas. Got under that one but not far enough.

103/3. Skipper coming in. Would be a good time for the Real Jos Buttler to appear...because whoever has been wearing his shirt so far has been a big disappointment...

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Post by KP_fan Sat 04 Nov 2023, 2:52 pm

GSC wrote:Brook needs to get into this team. Take your pick for who

I was surprised to see Brook not in......For Livingstone or Moeen he should be in.......for me for Livingstone
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Post by KP_fan Sat 04 Nov 2023, 2:55 pm

Butler can't hide behind....that's how I play
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Post by alfie Sat 04 Nov 2023, 2:58 pm

Cummins bowling really well in this spell. England having to play cautiously. I know they are only three down. ; and we hear a lot about their "deep batting " : but honestly Moeen and Livingstone inspire no confidence...

Anyway there goes Buttler as his wretched WC continues . Out for just one and it rather sums up this disastrous tournament that the man widely seen as England's best ever white ball bat has probably been the worst performer of a very poor bunch over these seven games...

Unless Stokes produces another one of his specials I reckon England are toast.


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Post by KP_fan Sat 04 Nov 2023, 2:59 pm

GSC wrote:Not wholly convinced by the methodology of a DLS win when you still needed 200 odd in 25 overs. Pakistan on top sure but it only takes a couple of wickets to completely slow the rate. Rather suggests Pakistan were playing the DLS score a bit

DLS par for a sudden stop is different from DLS recalculated for a reduced target
The former favors batting teams with wickets in hand....and latter unfair to the chasing side
9 overs taken off and only 59 runs reduced from Pak target making it 342 in 41...made their chase tougher than 401 in 50
Anyway they helped their cause thru Fakhr playing the inning of his life
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Post by GSC Sat 04 Nov 2023, 3:02 pm

Wickets have applied the squeeze. Not quite done yet but looking pretty bleak again.

Not really many options outside of Brook to change this team. Too many "bankers" in the lineup miles out of form
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Post by Duty281 Sat 04 Nov 2023, 3:04 pm

This is why the old method of build a platform + explode at the end is outdated and generally unlikely to work. England built up steadily to 103/2, but RRR climbing all the time. Heaps pressure on new batsmen, leads to a risk of collapse. Two quick wickets and now well behind.

Chases have generally been done at this World Cup by aggression early on. Getting to 60-90 after 10/15 overs and transferring the pressure on to the fielding side. NZ showed it in the very first game.

Even worse is this Australia score was below par. But England are out of form and unsure of themselves. It really is strange how many England bats are out of form at the same time. Only Malan and Brook averaging above 30 of the main batsmen. Root/Bairstow/Buttler all haven't turned up.

Probably reliant on another hollywood innings from Stokes, unless Moeen/LL can justify their inclusion.

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Post by king_carlos Sat 04 Nov 2023, 3:13 pm

I'm not sure I've ever seen a batting line up underperform so spectacularly across a tournament.

There are questions over Bairstow and Stokes' ability in the field after their injuries but both showed destructive batting ability during the summer. Root is one of England's best ever batters across formats. Malan came into this playing very well, with an excellent ODI record. Buttler is probably England's best ever white ball player. I'm not a massive fan of him at 5 but he actually averages slightly higher there than at 6, with the same SR.

They've just epically s**t the bed over and over.

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Post by KP_fan Sat 04 Nov 2023, 3:20 pm

It's Stokes vs Aus again
He doesn't look fluent though and might fall to spinner or a.slower one
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Post by Duty281 Sat 04 Nov 2023, 3:21 pm

Under 8 an over required for the final 19. Stokes settled, Moeen with him, LL/Woakes/Willey still to bat.

It's very possible. But it's a mark of how shot the lineup is that we're not especially positive about England's chances!

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Post by alfie Sat 04 Nov 2023, 3:28 pm

Nice to see Stokes finding some fluency at least....keeping this just about alive for now. RRR isn't anything special really ... But Stokes is the only reason I'm staying up at this hour because I've little faith in the "all rounders".

Lot of Hazlewood overs to come , won't give much away. Aussies still firm favourite.

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Post by alfie Sat 04 Nov 2023, 3:36 pm

Moeen going after Stoinis...useful over that. Wonder how they will try to play Zampa when he comes back on ?

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Post by Duty281 Sat 04 Nov 2023, 3:37 pm

Nice for Moeen to find his touch also.

Just need one of these to bat through and the job should be a good'un.

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Post by No name Bertie Sat 04 Nov 2023, 3:38 pm

It is time for England to make a positive contribution to this tournament not just the LOL moments.
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Post by Duty281 Sat 04 Nov 2023, 3:43 pm

What a ball to get out to.

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Post by Pal Joey Sat 04 Nov 2023, 3:43 pm

Zampa again. Gets Stokes. Fell into the trap much like Smith did.

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Post by alfie Sat 04 Nov 2023, 3:45 pm

Ah...that's torn it. Stokes falls to Zampa and briefly kindled hope dies ... Was fun while it lasted I guess. Hope the remaining bats can at least prevent that NRR from getting any worse but they aren't chasing this down now...

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Post by alfie Sat 04 Nov 2023, 3:47 pm

Wasn't a great ball to say the least...but Zampa won't care. He's had a great WC and really is vital for Australia.

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Post by No name Bertie Sat 04 Nov 2023, 3:47 pm

England need about 8 an over from here-on.
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Post by Pal Joey Sat 04 Nov 2023, 3:50 pm

Super catch Abbott. clap

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Post by No name Bertie Sat 04 Nov 2023, 3:53 pm

This doesn't look too good for England now.
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Post by king_carlos Sat 04 Nov 2023, 3:54 pm

I backed Livi before the tournament. I think there's a good player in there beyond T20 and his bowling should be useful in Indian conditions. He's had one of the more abysmal tournaments though even by this squads performances. 60 runs in 6 innings.

Brook really should be playing by now.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 04 Nov 2023, 3:55 pm

Very good catch. That's just the way it's been going for LL.

Into minor miracle required territory. Wish they would send Wood up the order. He's the most likely to blast 30 off 12.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 04 Nov 2023, 4:02 pm

Brainless from Moeen. Taking on Zampa like that.

Nearly all over.

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