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Wales vs Scotland | The Doddie Weir Cup

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Post by bsando Sun 28 Jan 2024, 6:49 am

First topic message reminder :

The Wales vs Scotland
The Doddie Weir Cup

Round One
3rd of February, 2024
Millenium Stadium, Cardiff
Kick Off 16:45

Referee: Ben O’Keeffe (NZ)
ARs: James Doleman (NZ) & Angus Mabey (NZ)
TMO: Brendon Pickerill (NZ)

TV Coverage on BBC 1
SC4
RTÉ (ROI)

Teams

Wales

Winnett; Dyer, Watkin, Tompkins, Adams; Costelow, G Davies; Domachowski, Elias, Brown, D Jenkins (capt), Beard, Botham, Reffell, Wainwright.

Replacements:Dee, Mathias, Assiratti, Teddy Williams, Mann, Tomos Williams, I Lloyd, Grady.

Scotland

Rowe, Steyn, Jones, Tuipulotu, Van der Merwe, Russell, White; Schoeman, Turner, Z Fagerson, R Gray, Cummings, Crosbie, Ritchie, M Fagerson.

Replacements: Ashman, Hepburn, Millar-Mills, Skinner, Dempsey, Horne, Healy, Redpath.


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Post by jimbopip Thu 01 Feb 2024, 9:13 am

Oakdene wrote:By all accounts Wales are going to start with Winnett at full back if he passes late fitness tests.
Who he? Headscratch

Also, is it just me? If things go as per usual (which is never a given with Toonie) then round about the 60 minute marl we will take off the starting front row. This will then give us; two debutants either side if the scrum and a front row which has never played together, in a packed Millennium, with the crowd baying for blood. Welcome to test rugby lads.

Also, our back three.... Headscratch Dwayne is obviously first choice on his wing. Seaman is probably third choice full back. Rowe is also third choice winger and making his debut.. As far as I can remember seaman hasn't played at 15 for Scotland.

No worries then. Whistle

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Post by NeilyBroon Thu 01 Feb 2024, 9:31 am

jimbopip wrote:
Oakdene wrote:By all accounts Wales are going to start with Winnett at full back if he passes late fitness tests.
Who he? Headscratch

Also, is it just me? If things go as per usual (which is never a given with Toonie) then round about the 60 minute marl we will take off the starting front row. This will then give us; two debutants either side if the scrum and a front row which has never played together, in a packed Millennium, with the crowd baying for blood. Welcome to test rugby lads.

Also, our back three.... Headscratch Dwayne is obviously first choice on his wing. Seaman is probably third choice full back. Rowe is also third choice winger and making his debut.. As far as I can remember seaman hasn't played at 15 for Scotland.

No worries then. Whistle

Is it possible this is an elaborate game of smoke and mirrors by Toonie? Has he finally discovered the mole in camp who keeps leaking info to 606?

I saw a pre-match interview with kinghorn which sounded like he's in line to play. Maybe his knee injury was a red herring?

We can but live in hope

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Post by bsando Thu 01 Feb 2024, 10:14 am

Presumably both sides will have teams out today sometime?

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Post by RiscaGame Thu 01 Feb 2024, 10:18 am

Oakdene wrote:By all accounts Wales are going to start with Winnett at full back if he passes late fitness tests.

It was obviously the plan all along, for him to be the starter (if fit). If that is the case, then I think Rio Dyer may struggle to start.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 01 Feb 2024, 11:41 am

bsando wrote:Presumably both sides will have teams out today sometime?

12.30 for the Wales side.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 01 Feb 2024, 12:06 pm

Or slightly earlier!

Wales team to face Scotland: Winnett; Dyer, Watkin, Tompkins, Adams; Costelow, G Davies; Domachowski, Elias, Brown, D Jenkins (capt), Beard, Botham, Reffell, Wainwright.

Replacements: Dee, Mathias, Assiratti, Teddy Williams, Mann, Tomos Williams, I Lloyd, Grady.

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Post by RiscaGame Thu 01 Feb 2024, 12:21 pm

I don’t get how North can’t be fit to play, but can plank with a heavy stinger with 60kg on his back. That seems a load of nonsense.

Delighted Winnett is fit and we have a proper 15. I worry for our scrum with Brown starting. I would’ve started Williams over Davies. Gutted Rowlands isn’t available.

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Post by RiscaGame Thu 01 Feb 2024, 12:28 pm

The roof will be open too and weather looks not too bad.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 01 Feb 2024, 12:30 pm

I hope Brown is solid and proves a lot of people wrong, but I've seen too many referees take issue with his scrummaging for the Dragons to be confident.

It's probably anti-Cardiff prejudice on my part, but I don't quite understand why so many Cardiff players are involved. I think it's three games they've won all season, and two of those were against us! I definitely feel the Ospreys are under-represented.

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Post by RiscaGame Thu 01 Feb 2024, 12:40 pm

I was surprised to see 9 tbh. Though I’m sure that CF10 lot will be quick to scapegoat others, despite having a high number of players.

That said, despite results I do think they have been having a crack. Ospreys do seem very under represented though, but seeing as they’re looking pretty good, it might suit Booth not to risk players being broken.

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Post by mikey_dragon Thu 01 Feb 2024, 12:40 pm

Are we carrying more injuries again? We could have put out a good starting team from the squad selected, but a number of combinations and the bench are very poor. Scotland should win this with a bit to spare.

I don't see Teddy Williams or Alex Mann being at the required level for international rugby, both are average. Mathias and Brown are very poor picks, but I expect Brown to do better than Mathias when looking at most recent form.

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Post by Oakdene Thu 01 Feb 2024, 12:41 pm

Rowlands still in France with his wife who has just given birth.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 01 Feb 2024, 12:45 pm

This might be a season for Steve Hansen's thing about looking at performances rather than results. We may not have much else to go on!

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Post by mikey_dragon Thu 01 Feb 2024, 12:46 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:This might be a season for Steve Hansen's thing about looking at performances rather than results. We may not have much else to go on!

Maybe that's how Cardiff get so many players in then...

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Post by bsando Thu 01 Feb 2024, 12:50 pm

Apparently Townsend wanted the roof open at the millennium stadium. Gatland says he was disappointed with that decision as it takes away from the atmosphere. 

Does it really make a big difference to have it open or closed? The only disadvantage of a closed roof for me would be that the ball might get greasy. That would surely benefit Scotland more because they have the settled side and in theory should have better cohesion in attack.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 01 Feb 2024, 12:56 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:This might be a season for Steve Hansen's thing about looking at performances rather than results. We may not have much else to go on!

Maybe that's how Cardiff get so many players in then...

Yeah and if you get a sell-out crowd, it doesn't matter that you lose. censored

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Post by jimbopip Thu 01 Feb 2024, 1:04 pm

I don't get the Welsh doom and gloom: from 9-15 you have players playing in their actual positions. I'm not too sure Scotland will have that.

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Post by BigGee Thu 01 Feb 2024, 2:05 pm

Scotland team to face Wales at the Principality Stadium, Cardiff, in the Guinness Six Nations on Saturday 3 February, kick-off 4.45pm – live on BBC (caps in brackets)

15. Kyle Rowe – Glasgow Warriors (1)
14. Kyle Steyn – Glasgow Warriors (15)
13. Huw Jones – Glasgow Warriors (43)
12. Sione Tuipulotu – Vice-Captain – Glasgow Warriors (22)
11. Duhan van der Merwe – Edinburgh Rugby (34)

10. Finn Russell – Captain – Bath Rugby (75)
9. Ben White – Toulon (18)

1. Pierre Schoeman – Edinburgh Rugby (26)
2. George Turner – Glasgow Warriors (40)
3. Zander Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors (62)
4. Richie Gray – Glasgow Warriors (78)
5. Scott Cummings – Glasgow Warriors (33)
6. Luke Crosbie – Edinburgh Rugby (7)
7. Jamie Ritchie – Vice-Captain – Edinburgh Rugby (46)
8. Matt Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors (40)

Replacements

16. Ewan Ashman – Edinburgh Rugby (12)
17. Alec Hepburn – Exeter Chiefs (uncapped)
18. Elliot Millar-Mills – Northampton Saints (uncapped)
19. Sam Skinner – Edinburgh Rugby (30)
20. Jack Dempsey – Glasgow Warriors (15)
21. George Horne – Glasgow Warriors (26)
22. Ben Healy – Edinburgh Rugby (4)
23. Cameron Redpath – Bath Rugby (9)

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Post by BigGee Thu 01 Feb 2024, 2:08 pm

Tramps prediction bang on the money.

Darge available next week and Blairhorn misses the first 2 games apparently.

2 debutants at prop to come on at prop in the second half. Luckily Schoey and Zander both got really good engines and will go well into the second half.

I am actually pleased to see Ritchie in the team, he has proved himself a big match player and has something to prove now.

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Post by jimbopip Thu 01 Feb 2024, 2:10 pm

So, the team that Tramptastic gave us.

17. Alec Hepburn – Exeter Chiefs (uncapped) I know that we had agreed he could be called Tiffany's....but as he's listed as uncapped but has been capped by Engurlund we could go for Schroedinger's.

So Tifany's/Schroedinger's...that is his nickname but it isn't. See, it works. Or maybe it doesn't.


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Post by jimbopip Thu 01 Feb 2024, 2:11 pm

BigGee wrote:Tramps prediction bang on the money.

Darge available next week and Blairhorn misses the first 2 games apparently.

2 debutants at prop to come on at prop in the second half. Luckily Schoey and Zander both got really good engines and will go well into the second half.

I am actually pleased to see Ritchie in the team, he has proved himself a big match player and has something to prove now.

Toonie is being very staid and traditional these days, isn't he.

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Post by jimbopip Thu 01 Feb 2024, 2:18 pm

All joking aside, how do our Welsh posters feel having seen both line ups?

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Post by Tramptastic Thu 01 Feb 2024, 2:19 pm

Rowe at 15 is quite exciting. No idea how often he's played there but having played a decent swedge of time on the 7s circuit his core skills should be excellent ( as per Steyn). Saying that, we will miss Blarehorn and Graham for sure.

Other than that, fairly settled side with Toonie having dished out some verbal rockets "I've got loads of good backrows Jamie, do you really want to get walked back 10m for being gobbie AGAIN?" - No bad thing!

One bench prop to be grand, the other may be a cause for concern. Overall, pretty happy. Settled side, new motivation, hungry bench.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 01 Feb 2024, 2:33 pm

jimbopip wrote:All joking aside, how do our Welsh posters feel having seen both line ups?

It's a much more settled / established Scotland side than we've got, and that has to count for something. It looks a very good bench too, aside from the two debutants.

It's just such a green match-day squad, isn't it? I haven't looked it up, but I'd guess our scrum halves are our two most-capped players. If things start going t!ts up early on, there aren't many wise heads to reassure the younger players. I honestly don't think Wales will recover if Scotland get a couple of early scores.

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Post by TAFKA The Oracle Thu 01 Feb 2024, 2:52 pm

I'm worried about Winnett as I don't know much about him, but seems to have some good reviews on this thread so I'll trust the others posters' knowledge (you're all to blame it goes wrong through! Very Happy )
I'm worried about Watkin in the centre as he's just not very good IMO. About 10 rungs down the ladder from North, IMO.
I'm worried about Costelow as he's prone to some howlers and does not look very confident.
I'm slightly worried by Gareth Davies, only because Tomos Williams has been in such good form. Davies is one of my favourite players but not sure he's playing as well as Williams so seems a strange choice (apart from his club partnership with Costelow, so maybe that's it).
Backrow - I'm a little worried. Would have preferred to see Jenkins there as I suggested previously. But hearing that Rowlands was not available answers why Jenkins is needed in the 2nd row. Is Botham in good enough form? Happy enough with Reffell and Wainwright (who is in great form lately in a poor Dragons team).
Worried about the front row - Brown for his lack of game time, form and poor scrummaging rep, but he did do OK vs Ox Nche against Sharks the other day. Domachowski is still a bit unproven I think. OK with Elias I s'pose, but a shame that Dewi Lake is not available.

Would have liked to see Grady start somewhere.
Are the bench props any good? Not seen much of them.

I'm pretty worried, overall!

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Post by mikey_dragon Thu 01 Feb 2024, 3:12 pm

I'm amazed at how many actually rate Watkin, it makes you wonder what they've been watching for the last few years? I know he was good against the Lions but for me, he is a very limited player.

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Post by jimbopip Thu 01 Feb 2024, 4:01 pm

The AB' s reckon that it takes 30-35 games for a player to really be comfortable at international level.
The 15 for Wales this weekend has played 15 or 16 senior games!!!
I expect Dancer to be kicking a lot early on.

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Post by TAFKA The Oracle Thu 01 Feb 2024, 4:20 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:I'm amazed at how many actually rate Watkin, it makes you wonder what they've been watching for the last few years? I know he was good against the Lions but for me, he is a very limited player.


Yes, he's had plenty of caps (27) but not much to show for it. 2 tries. Is he a good defensive centre or something? My memory of him is being not as good defensively as the previous Roberts/JD2 partnership, and therefore a big step down. Grady can play centre can't he? Would be good to see him come on there at some point.

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Post by Hazel Sapling Thu 01 Feb 2024, 4:53 pm

The more I look at the two line-ups, the more confident I am getting as a Scotland fan. We have to be able to accept that we are favourites to make the next move up.

Our starting pack is strong. The lock pairing and back-row balance is pretty good. If anything, we are a little low on carrying/jackaling and have four jumpers in the line-out. That partially corrects itself when the subs come on. Outside of Millar-Mills, our pack subs vary from decent to impactful (Skinner/Dempsey).

As for the backs, it is as good as we can put out. The main concern is going to be having enough kickers for the inevitable kick tennis and White will have to drop back to help. Wales' back three options are not particularly tall (though Adams is strong in the air) so if Rowe deals with the first couple of up-and-unders well, it may significantly cut down how often they try to target him. If Rowe struggles, Steyn can alternate positioning with him. Even better would be if we get scrum dominance...


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Post by TJ Thu 01 Feb 2024, 6:02 pm

he more I look at the two line-ups, the more confident I am getting as a Scotland fan.

Dinnae dae that laddie!

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Post by RiscaGame Thu 01 Feb 2024, 6:29 pm

I think for all of Winnett’s inexperience, he had to start if fit. The positioning will at least come more naturally than it would for Adams. I am very worried by how strong Scotland are in comparison though and Winnett will definitely be under pressure.

Saw WOL state that our last two wins v Scotland came with Tompkins and Watkin at centre, so I’ll hang on to that very small crumb of comfort ha.

I was thinking about Brown on my drive back to base and whilst I am worried, he is definitely alongside a strong scrummaging hooker and probably more solid locks than he is at Dragons. So it could help (probably won’t). Botham has seemingly been playing well for Cardiff, so we shall see what happens there.

I think Scotland will have too much for us, but seeing as Gatland has been banging on about spectacles if the roof was shut, hopefully we will have a go. I worry about our halfbacks, but we do have some good options in the back three if we give them ball to use. Hopefully people can run off Tompkins’ late passes as we did at times in the WC.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Thu 01 Feb 2024, 7:12 pm

jimbopip wrote:The AB' s reckon that it takes 30-35 games for a player to really be comfortable at international level.
The 15 for Wales this weekend has played 15 or 16 senior games!!!
I expect Dancer to be kicking a lot early on.

Can be a bit of a double edged sword that. If he gets an early touch and does well then his confidence will surge, if he makes an error or gets melted then might start hesitating.

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Post by George Carlin Thu 01 Feb 2024, 8:28 pm

Very funny headlines on social media saying that Kyle Rowe has 100% more test experience than Winnett.

Winnett is uncapped and Rowe has one cap... king


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Post by Mcsweens Thu 01 Feb 2024, 11:51 pm

George Carlin wrote:Very funny headlines on social media saying that Kyle Rowe has 100% more text experience than Winnett.

Winnett is uncapped and Rowe has one cap... king

Much funnier and more accurate to state that Rowe has infinitely more international experience. picard

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Post by Recwatcher16 Fri 02 Feb 2024, 11:12 am

Scotland should win this game, Wales have picked some form players but a lot of untested combinations and when the pressure comes on from the scottish globetrotting backline, the welsh defence with very few wise heads, could be in trouble, despite being in Cardiff with their 16th player.
Scotland with England and France at home, really should be targeting this year. Dont think Hepburn is the same player from a few years back and dont know much about the other Englishman in the front row.
Looking at the Scotland bench, they desperately need to invest in their age grade rugby and playing in Scotland, above all else to represent scottish rugby in the longer term. The 6N needs a competitive scottish game.

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri 02 Feb 2024, 12:00 pm

Roof u-turn?

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Post by RiscaGame Fri 02 Feb 2024, 12:02 pm

Madness, I tell you.

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri 02 Feb 2024, 12:04 pm

What's Townsend playing at? Bloody mind-games, that's not his thing...

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Post by Tramptastic Fri 02 Feb 2024, 12:22 pm

Weather looks noticeably worse than it did at the start of the week.

Reckon Toonie wants a faster paced game, was happy to have roof open to lesson the 16th man effect when the game was good but now the weather looks crud...

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Post by bsando Fri 02 Feb 2024, 12:26 pm

It’s a challenge for the team as well. Dealing with the crowd nosie and intense atmosphere will show us what some of these players are made of in the big moments. Exactly the challenge this Scotland side need.

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Post by RiscaGame Fri 02 Feb 2024, 12:35 pm

Townsend's reasoning was completely fair. Cement Head has had 16 years now of knowing the rules about the poxy roof, so it's not worth him bellyaching any more.

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Post by Tramptastic Fri 02 Feb 2024, 3:03 pm

Ach Gatland likes a bit of needle before a game, Toonie will be wise to it but i always enjoy the drama

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Post by RiscaGame Fri 02 Feb 2024, 11:03 pm

Yeah, that’s fair. But it seems like Gatland’s grenades don’t work nowadays, now Uncle Eddie has gone (nobody else bothers responding) and Wales aren’t great. Still, as long as he concentrates his efforts on trivial matters, rather than sticking up for his paymasters tucking his team up, then he is earning his hefty wage from the WRU.

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Post by RDW Sat 03 Feb 2024, 11:57 am

Well good luck everyone. This is going to be stressful so I'm not too disappointed it will all happen when I'm sleeping.

Looking forwards to waking up and hopefully watching the re run of a famous Scottish win...!

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Post by mountain man Sat 03 Feb 2024, 12:00 pm

Well. I've got Scotland to win reasonably comfortably today but then again I thought France would beat Ireland last night.

Christ, I've tipped England to beat Italy as well.

We're doomed.

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Post by geoff999rugby Sat 03 Feb 2024, 12:13 pm

Recwatcher16 wrote:
Looking at the Scotland bench, they desperately need to invest in their age grade rugby and playing in Scotland, above all else to represent scottish rugby in the longer term. The 6N needs a competitive scottish game.

Scottish rugby looks pretty competitive to me

3rd and 6th in the URC both teams with 6 wins 3 defeats

Both teams in the knock out stages of the European Cup and Challenge cup respectively.

Wales by contrast are 8th, 12th, 13th and 15th in the URC and only one team in the knock out stages of the Challenge Cup.

Other than Osprey it is another poor year


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Post by BigGee Sat 03 Feb 2024, 4:52 pm

Good start by Scotland

Well worked pen

3-0 Scotland

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 03 Feb 2024, 4:53 pm

Ouch. Early for a yellow card warning.

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Post by BigGee Sat 03 Feb 2024, 5:00 pm

That looks like a good try

Going direct working well for Scotland

10 -0 Scotland

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Post by TAFKA The Oracle Sat 03 Feb 2024, 5:00 pm

Gonna be a long afternoon for us, as predicted Sad

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