2013 Summer Transfer Window Thread gets continued another time!

[Dolphin Ziggler]

First topic message reminder :

We are just under three weeks away from the end of the window, when it slams shut, and none of the big names from the Premier League have gone anywhere. Suarez, Rooney, Bale could all leave, but the tables have turned and at least 2 of the 3 look likely to stay where they are. 

Will business slow down as the Premier League season starts this Saturday before a late flurry as panic sets in, squads are closer to confirmation and the window closes?

[Duty281]

Yes I thought that was a strange choice of words as well.  

[Crimey]

Might just be an odd translation.

Is £28 million really that insulting? £14 million each isn't far from what I'd say they're worth. I know Everton value them higher, but are they worth more than that to United? I wouldn't say so.

[Guest]

Yeah, but footballers don't go for their worth nowadays. Fellaini was bought for £15m, if anything he's grown as a footballers, improved and entering his prime age. £14m???? No chance, more like £24m. Is he worth £24m, not in my opinion but you have to work with the market and the fee he was originally bought for. Baines, at his age is probably around that £15m mark in my opinion. I just see Luke Shaw as a better long term option for United than Baines. Also Evra has one more left in him, therefore getting Shaw next summer makes sense with more experience under his belt.

[hornbloweroafc]

Remember how upset Moyes got about Man City's disrespectful pursuit of Lescott. Pot? Kettle?

[Crimey]

I don't think United expected to see the bid accepted, they're putting their feelers out and seeing if a deal for both players at once is possible, no point going in too high immediately.

[Guest]

In today's market, Baines should cost around £20m, compared to the worth of Jordi Alba for example (who'd be what, £25m?).

Fellaini is probably worth between £25m and £30m, based on Fernandinho costing £30m.

So a bid of £45m - £50m would be market value.

[Bull]

Fellanini is not worth 30m  

[Guest]

We'll go in once more at £15million for Baines and that will be it, it'll get rejected and we won't follow up. Besides Evra looked solid on Saturday and I feel he can get through this season

I can see United going as high as the 23.5 million buy out that has expired

[Crimey]

Fernandinho has dominated Champions League games, Fellaini has done nothing anywhere close to that level. He's worth £15-20 million at most to Manchester United, he'll be worth more to Everton but anything more than £25 million and Manchester United are getting ripped off.

Baines would be worth £20 million if it wasn't for his age as he is pushing 30.

[Guest]

The transfer market says otherwise Bull.

Fernandinho = £30m
Mkhitaryan = £24m
Thiago = £22m
Paulinho = £17m
Luis Gustavo = £16m
Wanyama = £12.5m
Medel = £11.5m

I'd put Fellaini below Fernandinho but above Mkhitaryan, so between £24m and £30m.

Add to that, Everton don't want to sell, and there are no CMs available on the market now, and what do you have? United having to overpay to get their man.

[Guest]

Baines would be worth £20 million if it wasn't for his age as he is pushing 30.

He's 28. He keeps getting better. Evra is 32, but just had his best season. If you want a player, you have to pay the asking price, and for Baines, England's semi-1st-choice LB, who gets you goals, assists, great crossing, energy, everything you'd want from a LB and more, £20m is a good price for both sides.

[Duty281]

I would say Baines is worth around 18 million, while Fellaini should be no more than 15 million. Add on about 20% because Everton don't want to sell, and the deadline is coming up and that makes:

Fellaini - £18 million
Baines - £21.6 million

Sounds about right to me.

[GSC]

Arsene going back to what he knows best, makes a bid for Cabaye

[Guest]

Didn't he have a bid accepted last summer? Then never signed him? Big gamble, fitness is a huge question mark and his age isn't exactly what Arsenal fans had in mind I'm sure.

[Crimey]

The transfer market says otherwise Bull.

Fernandinho = £30m
Mkhitaryan = £24m
Thiago = £22m
Paulinho = £17m
Luis Gustavo = £16m
Wanyama = £12.5m
Medel = £11.5m

I'd put Fellaini below Fernandinho but above Mkhitaryan, so between £24m and £30m.

Add to that, Everton don't want to sell, and there are no CMs available on the market now, and what do you have? United having to overpay to get their man.

Rating him well to high, I'd put him on about the same level of Paulinho and Gustavo, so £15-18 million. He's a player with very little experience at the highest level.

[GSC]

Aye, few question marks about him, but talent isnt in question. Depends how much they've bid I guess

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

The transfer market says otherwise Bull.

Fernandinho = £30m
Mkhitaryan = £24m
Thiago = £22m
Paulinho = £17m
Luis Gustavo = £16m
Wanyama = £12.5m
Medel = £11.5m

I'd put Fellaini below Fernandinho but above Mkhitaryan, so between £24m and £30m.

Add to that, Everton don't want to sell, and there are no CMs available on the market now, and what do you have? United having to overpay to get their man.

Rating him well to high, I'd put him on about the same level of Paulinho and Gustavo, so £15-18 million. He's a player with very little experience at the highest level.

Performed week in week out in the Premier League for multiple seasons?!?! International regular as well

[GSC]

Everton paid 17.5m for Fellaini. United are offering less

[Crimey]

There is no chance he's worth £30 million, United would be absolutely mad to pay for that for Fellaini.

[GSC]

And they've already had a 12m bid for Baines rejected.

Some say derisory and insulting. I say embarassing

[Duty281]

Why do United actually want Baines, since they already have two decent full-backs in Evra and Buttner? And they have Fabio as back-up.

[The Terror of Tylorstown]

To be honest you're being ridiculous here, you start with a low bid to gauge an idea of how negotiations may pan out, you don't bid the asking price straight away. Regardless of how much money we have we don't want to get ripped off and want to get players in for as little as possible, we're not Real Madrid or Man City who just throw money around.

If you're bringing up the prices of other midfielders as a reason why it's an insulting offer then why did you not have the same opinion of Chelsea when they bid £25mil for Rooney, based on the prices of Falcao, Cavani and to a degree Neymar he must logically be worth the same. The prices that the money men pay doesn't equate to how much other teams are willing to spend, we spend the money we earn through our marketing, tv money, sponsorship and prize money.

Ultimately Fellaini and Baines won't care how much we initially bid because both I assume would rather play for Manchester United in the champions league than Everton, it's the way it is. As for a 28 year old full back being worth in excess of £20mil not a chance, he's good very good but no full back in the world at that age is worth that sort of money, get real.

[The Terror of Tylorstown]

The transfer market says otherwise Bull.

Fernandinho = £30m
Mkhitaryan = £24m
Thiago = £22m
Paulinho = £17m
Luis Gustavo = £16m
Wanyama = £12.5m
Medel = £11.5m

I'd put Fellaini below Fernandinho but above Mkhitaryan, so between £24m and £30m.

Add to that, Everton don't want to sell, and there are no CMs available on the market now, and what do you have? United having to overpay to get their man.

Rating him well to high, I'd put him on about the same level of Paulinho and Gustavo, so £15-18 million. He's a player with very little experience at the highest level.

To be fair i'd have Paulinho head and shoulders above Fernandinho, City got mugged off paying £30mil for the weakest of the three brazilians.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Le Arse have apparantly enquired about Kondogbia and Pogba as well as the Cabaye shabang. Cabaye I don't think they need, good player, but too similar to what they already have. The other two would make sense, although don't see Juve parting with Pogba and Kondogbia has a release clause if I remember rightly

[BamBam]

The other way to look at the Fellaini offer is that no one was willing to pay the 23.5m clause for him, so he can't be worth that much.

Any business trying to get a deal done on the cheap is pretty much standard practice isn't it? United don't need Baines, if they follow the old Fergie model then they would be better off trying to secure Luke Shaw, with Evra slowly being phased out

[NickisBHAFC]

Panic buying for Arsenal starts.

[Fernando]

The Cabaye bid is down to Arteta being injured. Would prove more of a goal threat aswell.

Cabaye is hardly a panic buy Nick considering 14 days to go could easily work on other things between now and then. I doubt we're actually sign him though.

[Bull]

Nick is a wum nando ignore him.

[Guest]

Cabaye for £12m and Henderson is £20m......please.

Ashley is a hardballer, wrong place for desperational people to come and negotiate. £12m, oh my days!

[Crimey]

I think how good signing Cabaye is will depend on the price, Newcastle don't usually get bullied when selling players so I can see them demanding £20 million for Cabaye. If Arsenal can get him for around £10 million or less they've done a good deal. He's not an improvement on who they have already though and you have to question why they're moving for another central midfielder, Arteta injury or not when clearly they're in much greater need in pretty much every other position.

[BamBam]

I never get the point that teams are panicking by buying at the end of the window. Almost makes sense in a way if you are unsure to play a couple of games, see where you are lacking then buy.

Of course it's nice to have everyone in early as Man City have done, but people like Rooney, Fellaini, Tevez, Mascherano have all moved in the last few days of the window and been massive successes at their new clubs

[Crimey]

That's a good point, by the end of the season we won't remember at what point of the window players were signed.

A £35 million double bid for Michu and Ashley Williams would be madness from Wenger.

[Crimey]

"Everton sell very expensively. That's what we do.
"We don't sell cheap because that is why he is on a five-year deal and the chairman looks after the players and gives them what he can. So he is not for sale."

[Guest]

I do think we will listen to offers because of his age and the financial policy/cycle we have. We are already linked with Florian Thuvian, highly rated player from France as a replacement. I think Ashley's first response, not for sale at that embarrassing price. Second response, give us £18m and he's yours. That's how it should play out.

[Guest]

I can't remember who wrote it, but the reason no-one said anything about Chelsea's £25m bid for Rooney is that it wasn't too far off his market value. And wasn't the original rumour £10m + Mata or Luiz? Which United would surely have taken every day of the week and twice on Sundays?

[Guest]

"Everton sell very expensively. That's what we do.
"We don't sell cheap because that is why he is on a five-year deal and the chairman looks after the players and gives them what he can. So he is not for sale."

That's quality

I still think United don't have the money to pay top dollar for players any more, hence these low bids.

[TopHat24/7]

£10m+ Mata & Luiz?? Behave!

Wouldn't touch Luiz with a bargepole, plus I think you'd get him cheap as he's not a player that'd fit into Jose's plans. Mata might be worth £20m, but a total bid of, in effect, £30m isn't enough to make a club with plenty of cash and no reason to sell give up a prize asset to an arch rival.

[NickisBHAFC]

I do consider Cabaye a panic buy, as i feel he isn't 100% the player Wenger wants, yes he could probably do a job and score more goals than Arteta, but i simply feel this is a panic buy as clearly after Saturday's funny disaster, they simply need to make more signings, otherwise things will go from bad to worse, and more fans will sharpen there knifes.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

£10m+ Mata & Luiz?? Behave!

Wouldn't touch Luiz with a bargepole, plus I think you'd get him cheap as he's not a player that'd fit into Jose's plans.  Mata might be worth £20m, but a total bid of, in effect, £30m isn't enough to make a club with plenty of cash and no reason to sell give up a prize asset to an arch rival.

lol

Mata > Rooney anyways

[Crimey]

I still think United don't have the money to pay top dollar for players any more, hence these low bids.

Well they bid £35 million for Fabregas didn't they?

[Guest]

£10m+ Mata & Luiz?? Behave!

Wouldn't touch Luiz with a bargepole, plus I think you'd get him cheap as he's not a player that'd fit into Jose's plans.  Mata might be worth £20m, but a total bid of, in effect, £30m isn't enough to make a club with plenty of cash and no reason to sell give up a prize asset to an arch rival.

Luiz would be the DM you've missed since Keane, and Mata was the second-best player in the PL last season behind Bale. Pure quality.

I'd take Luiz + £10m for Rooney, but I'd rather take Mata = Rooney, regardless of the £10m they'd be adding in.

Thing I can't work out is, Rooney looked so unfit for England, and played badly, whereas for United he sets up two goals. I can't work it out.

[Guest]

I still think United don't have the money to pay top dollar for players any more, hence these low bids.

Well they bid £35 million for Fabregas didn't they?

But did they ever have any intention of buying him? Was it all an Arsenal-esque show to get the fans onside?

[Guest]

Rooney played uptop for England, he played in the hole for United. More action, more time on the ball, bound to be more effective. He played 30 mins, when other around him were tiring. He also assisted one goal and not two.

Luiz the new Keane......no.

£18m for Cabaye should be enough for us to accept. We already have Florian Thauvin lined up, someone Wenger has also bottled to buy.

[Crimey]

I still think United don't have the money to pay top dollar for players any more, hence these low bids.

Well they bid £35 million for Fabregas didn't they?

But did they ever have any intention of buying him? Was it all an Arsenal-esque show to get the fans onside?

Of course they did, a better question would have been, were they planning to sell Rooney to recoup all/most of the fee, in which case they'd be in a similar position as they were before.

[GSC]

I still think United don't have the money to pay top dollar for players any more, hence these low bids.

Well they bid £35 million for Fabregas didn't they?

Roughly equivalent to bidding 70m for Messi. Never going to be accepted

[Crimey]

I still think United don't have the money to pay top dollar for players any more, hence these low bids.

Well they bid £35 million for Fabregas didn't they?

Roughly equivalent to bidding 70m for Messi. Never going to be accepted

I believe Barcelona actually left it up to the player, Fabregas rejected moving to United rather than Barcelona rejecting it as being too small of a bid. I don't think it's out of the question that £35 million would be expected, Fabregas has hardly ever been first choice at Barcelona. Rumours of him wanting to go back to England. 

Not the same at all as bidding £70m for Messi.

[Guest]

Luiz the new Keane......no.

I am seriously fed up with being misquoted on here

If I meant Luiz is the new Keane, I'd have said that - I said he'd be the DM they've missed since Keane, which I believe to be true. Luiz excelled at DM last season.

[Guest]

David Luiz is not a great DM. He gets found out in that position at the top level, did you not see him against Benfica in that first half of the Europa League final. Just horrible. Had no control of the game, poor first touches and his positional play was awful. He's a centre back with good technical ability but that's it. He plays centre back for Brazil.

The Guardian review after the Europa League Final - The jury is very much still out on his best position. Capable of some spectacular passing and shooting but often struggles with the basics and Chelsea found themselves overrun in central midfield.

BBC rating 5/10 - It turned out to be a quiet night in midfield for the Brazilian playing against his former club, particularly for a player who has shown flashes of real brilliance at times recently. Error's aplenty.

[TopHat24/7]

£10m+ Mata & Luiz?? Behave!

Wouldn't touch Luiz with a bargepole, plus I think you'd get him cheap as he's not a player that'd fit into Jose's plans.  Mata might be worth £20m, but a total bid of, in effect, £30m isn't enough to make a club with plenty of cash and no reason to sell give up a prize asset to an arch rival.

lol

Mata > Rooney anyways

Peak for peak, not in the slightest. Rooney last season vs Mata last season, definitely Mata.

[TopHat24/7]

£10m+ Mata & Luiz?? Behave!

Wouldn't touch Luiz with a bargepole, plus I think you'd get him cheap as he's not a player that'd fit into Jose's plans.  Mata might be worth £20m, but a total bid of, in effect, £30m isn't enough to make a club with plenty of cash and no reason to sell give up a prize asset to an arch rival.

Luiz would be the DM you've missed since Keane, and Mata was the second-best player in the PL last season behind Bale. Pure quality.

I'd take Luiz + £10m for Rooney, but I'd rather take Mata = Rooney, regardless of the £10m they'd be adding in.

Thing I can't work out is, Rooney looked so unfit for England, and played badly, whereas for United he sets up two goals. I can't work it out.

What nonesense, Luiz getting seriously over-rated on here. And Mata was behind RVP, as well as Bale, for a start last season.

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