Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XII - Twelve Monkeys

[A Simply Mesmeric Try]

First topic message reminder :

A Brief History of Time-Wasting


https://www.606v2.com/t48240-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread
https://www.606v2.com/t51313-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-ii
https://www.606v2.com/t53119-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iii
https://www.606v2.com/t54519-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iv
https://www.606v2.com/t55409-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-v-the-fun-continues
https://www.606v2.com/t56913-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-vi-banter-boogaloo
https://www.606v2.com/t57946-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-vii
https://www.606v2.com/t58659-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-viii
https://www.606v2.com/t59409-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-ix
https://www.606v2.com/t60764-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-x-rated
https://www.606v2.com/t61904-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-xi-the-undiscovered-country

Edinburgh

1872 Champions

Edinburgh's Fixtures & Results (click to show):

Glasgow

1872 Runners-up

Glasgow Warrior's Fixtures & Results (click to show):

Ladies and Gents, Girls and Boys, it's season finale!

Guinness PRO12 Play Offs
Fri 20 May 19:45 - Semi Final
Leinster Rugby 30 - 18   Ulster Rugby - RDS Arena 19,100

Sat 21 May 18:30 - Semi Final
Connacht Rugby  16 - 11   Glasgow Warriors - Galway Sportsground 7,800

Sat 28 May 17:30 - Grand Final
Leinster Rugby  10 - 20  Connacht Rugby  - BT Murrayfield - 34,550

Cinderella story or what?! Congrats to the Galway posse who were the form team of the season!

[funnyExiledScot]

I think Edinburgh would be mad not to re-sign Denton should the opportunity arise. Let's not forget that Manu is running Grant Gilchrist pretty close in the sick note stakes and whilst there's promise in Ritchie, he still looks underpowered for top flight rugby in my view.

I do want Denton to make a success of it in the Aviva, but for that to happen Bath will need to remember what exactly it is he does. He's a number 8 who wants the ball in his hands as much as possible. Sticking him at 6 and asking him to tackle get his head over the ball for 80 minutes is a waste of his talents. You want Denton receiving the ball and running it back at pace. He's a very useful ball carrier.

[BigGee]

Denton won't come back to Edinburgh for one very simple reason, money!

He is on a serious wedge down there, without knowing the exact figures, it made him the highest Scottish professional player ever by all accounts, though maybe RG move to Toulouse may now have trumped that. There is no way Edinburgh could or should try and match that and why would he take a big pay cut at this stage in his career.

Dents has a bit of a chequered injury resume as well remember and may be only one bad concussion away from ending his career. Way to much risk for both parties to sign on the dotted line.

The move did not turnout brilliantly for him last season, but lets be honest, the whole Bath setup was a shambles last year. He will surely get a better chance with a new coach, particularly if it is Dean Ryan, who knows him from his Scotland days.

If it does not work out, then he will surely pick up another fat AP contract or be off to France.

It is a sad fact that we just cannot compete with the money on offer in the other leagues. I am less worried about getting Denton back, than how we try to hang  on to some of our other stars in the future, Nel, Gray, Russell and Hogg in particular. If we are going to break the bank then that is where the money needs to go!

[RDW]

Damn you Biggee with your common sense and well reasoned arguments!

[BigGee]

I have to say, even disregarding my argument above I think Edinburgh are pretty well set in the back row and would question what Dents would now bring to he party.

Every time I have seen Manu and Bradbury play they have carried ball and been impressive, we need to see much more of them, not less.

James R was a bit underpowered at times, but he now has a whole professional season under his belt and will surely push on now. He is surely going to be a very classy player as he matures who can play right across the back row.

Then add CDP, Hardie and Watson, who we don't really need to say anything about. Yes there is room for a youngster or a squad player to fill in occasionally but there are more than enough players there to cope with Solly's limited view on selection and rotation.

However Edinburgh season goes next year, they won't fail because of their back row!

[RDW]

You're right from a quality / balance point of view but my concern is depth. Hardie will definitely be away with Scotland and I suspect Du Preez will be too, at least for the AIs to get him involved and capped.

So that would leave us with a back row of

6 Ritchie
7 Watson
8 Manu

Bench - Bradbury

Which is all fair and well, but that is literally all we have and there will be no backup - we're one injury away from having to play McKenzie at 6, which isn't ideal (and he's always injured), 2 injuries and we're down to something even less ideal. As FES (I think) said, back row is the most confrontational position on the pitch so there is a high chance of injury.

We're very much talking about squad cover during international windows here.

[Hazel Sapling]

Edinburgh must have some more youngsters in the academy even if that is not ideal to help cover back row. McInally could end up playing back row at times next season if not.

Any news on Huw Jones and whether he will leave Stormers after being mostly ignored this season? The Kebble rumours seem to have died a death as well.

[BigGee]

Which club is Ally Miller aligned to? He looked very decent in the U20s as well.

Can Carmichael play 6? He hardly seems big enough to play in the second row yet either.

[RDW]

Ally Miller from the under 20s will be coming through, but I'm just not convinced he's big enough for top level pro rugby. His stats have him as 6ft 4 but having stood next to him that seems very optimistic!

Matt Smith is another one - he could provide backup at openside and was one of our standout under 20s players last season.

I don't know which club either are aligned to but at that age surely they just go wherever they are needed!

[jimbopip]

I have to say, even disregarding my argument above I think Edinburgh are pretty well set in the back row and would question what Dents would now bring to he party.

Every time I have seen Manu and Bradbury play they have carried ball and been impressive, we need to see much more of them, not less.

James R was a bit underpowered at times, but he now has a whole professional season under his belt and will surely push on now. He is surely going to be a very classy player as he matures who can play right across the back row.

Then add CDP, Hardie and Watson, who we don't really need to say anything about. Yes there is room for a youngster or a squad player to fill in occasionally but there are more than enough players there to cope with Solly's limited view on selection and rotation.

However Edinburgh season goes next year, they won't fail because of their back row!

Certainly not.
One of the great joys of watching the MFL is wondering which new way to fail they'll come up with next. Building a team around the leadership qualities of the Coman people was excellent. Picking the world Pie eating champion as the man to get your back-line flying was also up there. Matt Scott12 at 13 was worth a chuckle too. Not to mention running the best props we've seen in a while into the ground in order to make games in the latter part of the season more "interesting" was also a novel way of losing.
No, they won't fail because of their back row.

[George Carlin]

Did Edinburgh keep Solomons on? Amazing stuff. 

He's so old that when he started playing the scores were counted in Roman numerals and the players were paid in pigs and flagons of ale.

[jimbopip]

Did Edinburgh keep Solomons on? Amazing stuff. 

He's so old that when he started playing the scores were counted in Roman numerals and the players were paid in pigs and flagons of ale.

George, sshh. Shrek will only get jealous.

[BigGee]

Matt Smith is another one - he could provide backup at openside and was one of our standout under 20s players last season.

Matt Smith is all but signed up for Glasgow, it just has not been announced yet, even though he is on the website. He will be pushing very hard for some game time when Favaro is away playing for Italy. Fusaro may find that he is the one struggling to play next season with Blake also in the mix and no doubt chomping at the bit to show what he can do.

Simone's style of play does seem to result in him taking a few knocks though, so plenty of games to go round I suspect

[Hazel Sapling]

Between the health of Favaro and Fusaro, Blake and Smith should see some game time. I think Smith really should be blooded properly during the 6 nations with a couple of sub appearances to show him what he needs to do early in the season (against a Zebre or NGD). Blake has to fight for a spot or else I question whether SRU should contract him.

If Ally Miller is ready (he was the 8 in the u20s?), it would fit well though another player beyond that may be needed. In retrospect, Cowan would have worked in the team building plans for Edinburgh. Amazing that at the start of last season Edinburgh had too many back rows and now they are down to bare bones.

[George Carlin]

Haven't seen Matt Smith play. 

Does he look special or is he just the next cab off the rank in terms of SRU player development?

[RDW]

Special in that he was generally one of the standout Scottish players in the 6N and world cup.

He reminds me of John Hardie - not huge but very physical and happy to put his head in places others wouldn't go!

[jimbopip]

Special in that he was generally one of the standout Scottish players in the 6N and world cup.

He reminds me of John Hardie - not huge but very physical and happy to put his head in places others wouldn't go!

Reminds me of a girl I once knew

[RDW]

Well on the topic of up and coming young players I had a surprise when I turned up at pre-season training last night and saw Andy Cramond romping about the pitch!

He's home during the Toulon off season and was keeping his fitness up with us, slumming it in National 3...

Wasn't much chance for chat but sounds like he's got another year with Toulon which his great for him. He probably won't get much gametime still but in a choice between living in Toulon and training with world superstars or being attached to Edinburgh or Glasgow and turning out for Stirling County at the weekends I know which one I'd choose!

[jimbopip]

Tell us more.
Did he look like a real rugby player?

[RDW]

Well is isn't overly difficult to look good when you're surrounded by rank average unfit amateur players, but he's certainly a big, athletic bloke! Again puts into perspective how big professional rugby players are given that he looks small compared to the goliaths in the French league.

I suspect this will be defining season for him in terms of whether he is going to have a career as a professional rugby player - I still have concerns that he just isn't big enough to be a modern professional lock forward though. Not that it stopped Tiny Tim Swinson...

[demosthenes]

Pro 12 fixtures out.

Glasgow leg of 1872 Cup is now the last regular season fixture on 6th May.

Very interesting!

[RDW]

Edinburgh

Blues A
Scarlets H
Leinster H
Munster A
Connacht A
Treviso H
Zebre H
Ulster H

AIs

Dragons A
Ospreys A
Glasgow H
Zebre A
Munster H

6N Start

Ulster A
Leinster A
Blues H
Ospreys H

6N Ends

Scarlets A
Connacht H
Treviso A
Dragons H
Glasgow A

[funnyExiledScot]

Pro 12 fixtures out.  

Glasgow leg of 1872 Cup is now the last regular season fixture on 6th May.

Very interesting!

Sounds like a Glasgow stitch-up to me. They know full well that Solomons will have destroyed the Edinburgh squad by that stage of the season so we won't be able to give the Glasgow pack its customary walloping. Glasgow also play better when it's dry and warm, and the pack can avoid a nasty arm-wrestle with the likes of Nel, Bresler and Du Preez on a wet and mucky pitch in December/January, which Edinburgh win with something to spare.

Still, we should still have a commanding lead from the 1st leg, which I presume is scheduled for the usual point in the season. Ultimately Glasgow are just delaying the inevitable.

[RDW]

Glasgow

Connacht A
Leinster H
Blues A
Ulster H
Dragons A
Zebre A
Treviso H
Scarlets A

AIs

Ospreys H
Munster H
Edinburgh A
Treviso A
Blues H

6N starts

Scarlets H
Ulster A
Ospreys A
Dragons H

6N ends

Connacht H
Munster A
Zebre A
Leinster A
Edinburgh H

[jimbopip]

Ah, so The Annual Slaughter Of The Effeminates will have added spice; we secure a home semi and the Luvvies get to watch European rugby disappear over the horizon.

[RDW]

Apparently it is because the league has created 6 big weekends. Also the 1872 Cup is now the Crabbies 1872 Cup apparently!

Edinburgh Rugby’s fixture schedule for the 2016/17 season was today confirmed by PRO12, with the capital outfit kicking-off their league campaign away to Welsh outfit, Cardiff, on Saturday 3 September.

Munster will be the first side to face Edinburgh Rugby at Myreside on Saturday 7 January

The club’s first home game of the season will be the following Friday (9 September) against Scarlets, with Munster being welcomed as Edinburgh’s first visitors to Myreside on Saturday 7 January.

A new addition to the league this year is the introduction of PRO12’s ‘Big Weekends’ which will see inter-country derbies take place across six weekends in this season.

Next season the Crabbie's 1872 Scottish Cup fixtures have been separated, with the creation of the six Big Weekends.

Edinburgh will host Glasgow Warriors at BT Murrayfield on Monday 26 December (kick-off 16.05) live on BBC ALBA, with the return leg at Scotstoun on the final weekend of the regular season on the weekend of 5/6/7 May to see who lifts the 1872 Scottish Cup.

The two Scottish club sides will face Italian opposition, Zebre and Treviso, in the remaining four Big Weekends.

On the weekends in which Scottish pro-teams face Italian opposition, club teams from the respective countries, including Edinburgh-based BT Premiership and BT Cup winners Heriot’s, will also face-off in a home and away leg.

Here is Edinburgh Rugby’s full fixture list for the 2016/17 season

Where to watch…

In the opening 13 rounds of the season, only two of Edinburgh’s games (both v Zebre on Friday 28 October & Saturday 31 Decemeber) are yet to be allocated a broadcaster.

BBC Alba will show six of the black and reds’ games including the Crabbie’s 1872 Scottish Cup clash with Glasgow in December.

Edinburgh’s away match to Munster on Saturday 24 September will be broadcast on Sky Sports, with the return leg at Myreside on Saturday 7 January also being shown on Sky.

Edinburgh’s away match to Dragons on Sunday 27 November – the first of a Welsh double-header – will be shown on S4C, with the following week’s tie against Ospreys being broadcast by BBC Wales.

Edinburgh's away game to Connacht on Friday 30 September will be shown on TG4, which is not available in the UK.

[Prothero]

Two thoughts:

1 the scottish clubs playing each other last in the fixture list leaves one or the other open to accusations of lying down to allow the other access to playoffs or top 6?

2: why did the sru allow themselves to be mentioned alongside the italians on the "big weekends"? it somewhat devalues Glasgows lofty status over the last few years. The italians may consider us rivals but i cant help feel that Glasgow and Edinburgh see the italians as a slightly belligerent speed-bump that can be overcome as long as its approached correctly:/. They could have still done "Big Weekends without making a point of the scotland v italy fixtures?

[RDW]

Well the Pro 12 has obviously decided to try and make the league more appealing by creating these big weekends, the obvious problem being that there are only 2 Scottish and Italian teams! So they have had to shoehorn them in and it doesn't really work from a marketing point of view - I don't think anyone in Scotland is going to give a crap that the games against the Italians are supposedly a big weekend.

[funnyExiledScot]

Ah, so The Annual Slaughter Of The Effeminates will have added spice; we secure a home semi and the Luvvies get to watch European rugby disappear over the horizon.

I'm impressed that you think it'll take until the last game of the season for that to happen!!

The "Crabbies" 1872 Cup sounds grim.

[funnyExiledScot]

Well the Pro 12 has obviously decided to try and make the league more appealing by creating these big weekends, the obvious problem being that there are only 2 Scottish and Italian teams! So they have had to shoehorn them in and it doesn't really work from a marketing point of view - I don't think anyone in Scotland is going to give a crap that the games against the Italians are supposedly a big weekend.

Agreed!

[jimbopip]

Well the Pro 12 has obviously decided to try and make the league more appealing by creating these big weekends, the obvious problem being that there are only 2 Scottish and Italian teams! So they have had to shoehorn them in and it doesn't really work from a marketing point of view - I don't think anyone in Scotland is going to give a crap that the games against the Italians are supposedly a big weekend.

Agreed!

It also means that there will be four months, a third of a year, between the two legs of the 1872. For a contest that is decided on the aggregate score this is a nonsense. As Mrs Pip says whenever I wear a kilt; the legs should be as close together as possible.

[RDW]

So basically the 1872 legs have been split apart ( ) to accomodate these big weekends (which mean nothing to us), as opposed to a desire from the the SRU

[funnyExiledScot]

Well the Pro 12 has obviously decided to try and make the league more appealing by creating these big weekends, the obvious problem being that there are only 2 Scottish and Italian teams! So they have had to shoehorn them in and it doesn't really work from a marketing point of view - I don't think anyone in Scotland is going to give a crap that the games against the Italians are supposedly a big weekend.

Agreed!

It also means that there will be four months, a third of a year, between the two legs of the 1872. For a contest that is decided on the aggregate score this is a nonsense. As Mrs Pip says whenever I wear a kilt; the legs should be as close together as possible.

Agreed on all points!! The two games should be played in succession, or alternatively the New Year contest should decide who wins the Cup, and you simply alternate years home/away.

[funnyExiledScot]

So basically the 1872 legs have been split apart ( ) to accomodate these big weekends (which mean nothing to us), as opposed to a desire from the the SRU

So basically the SRU screwed up. Again.

[demosthenes]

So basically the 1872 legs have been split apart ( ) to accomodate these big weekends (which mean nothing to us), as opposed to a desire from the the SRU

So basically the SRU screwed up. Again.

Not so sure. Screwed over, perhaps, as if the Welsh and Irish were in favour 'as a trial' then its difficult to argue against. And look at it this way. If the Welsh / Irish going forward want to have the last weekend as a derby fixture, it means that either we have a derby ourselves (and make the best of it) or a relatively easy home fixture to finish with. Or the potential for a weekend in Italy in early May. Could live with that latter thought!

[Hazel Sapling]

Creating big weekends where one nation faces another is a good idea even if Scotland drew the short straw. As it is, I hope this concept improves crowds. I would like them to spread the schedule a bit more to have Ulster and Ospreys vs Glasgow to not be played over the 6 nations as those are big matches without big players. Get the big match-ups when the best players are available. Seems a waste otherwise.

[funnyExiledScot]

So basically the 1872 legs have been split apart ( ) to accomodate these big weekends (which mean nothing to us), as opposed to a desire from the the SRU

So basically the SRU screwed up. Again.

Not so sure.  Screwed over, perhaps, as if the Welsh and Irish were in favour 'as a trial' then its difficult to argue against.  And look at it this way.  If the Welsh / Irish going forward want to have the last weekend as a derby fixture, it means that either we have a derby ourselves (and make the best of it) or a relatively easy home fixture to finish with.  Or the potential for a weekend in Italy in early May.  Could live with that latter thought!

I'd forgotten we even had Welsh teams in the Pro12.....

[BigGee]

Edinburgh apparently announcing a signing tomorrow.

Who might that be?

[RDW]

Quade Cooper has left Toulon....

My bets are on yet another random NSQ outside back - that or the signing of an academy player.

[RDW]

Well there's feck all rumours about who it is, which usually suggests it is a fairly low profile signing. There are suggestions it could be a SR signing as they are usually announced later.

Rumours of Ben Ranson coming to Edinburgh or Glasgow having left Sarries - he's SQ apparently. We definitely don't need another small back 3 player but Glasgow could do with backup there.

[EWT Spoons]

Huw Jones? Unlikely I know given he's under contract and likely to head to Glasgow if & when it expires, but it's the only player I can think of who's been linked with a Scottish team recently

[jimbopip]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11675008

Interesting to see that Shuggie B is returning from whence he came. Probably of more interest is that there is absolutely no mention of it on the Warriors web site.

I get the feeling that this whole episode has been a "reverse Tacky". With the non-tackling non-spacially aware big lump he didn't want to come here and the ARU capped him with indecent haste to make sure no-one else could have him. He then went back as soon as his agent could pay for the Get Out Of Here Card. With the non-stop running and highly developed footballing intelligence in a 7 jersey we had the club not really wanting him, the SRU capping him with unseemly haste and the player going home when the penny dropped and he realised there wasn't really a place for him in Toonie's Grand Plan.

I feel for the lad. In the same way that the Tacky one never really committed to Glasgow, the club never really seemed to commit to Blake. I wonder if we'll ever see him in a Scotland jersey again? Probably not while John Hardie is around.

Whoever advised him to turn his back on the All Blacks for a certain career and lots of caps in Scotland probably went on to mastermind Michael Gove's leadership bid.

[RDW]

It was such a random series of events to bring over a fairly random player with little pedigree and fast track him into the Scotland setup, having hardly played for a Scottish pro team.

This has been a complete shambles from an SRU point of view and the real loser here is Blake. He was never going to play for the ABs anyway (barring a hell of a lot of injuries for them at 7) but hopefully he can still make something of his career.

Once again players like Roddy Grant must be looking at all this and wondering whether to laugh or cry!

[Hazel Sapling]

I always thought that Blake looked pretty decent when he played. Unlucky to be shoehorned into the 7s set up, if Glasgow did not want him, why not send him to Edinburgh who are desperate for another backrower?

The SRU are not making the most of their limited resources

[jimbopip]

Most of what you say is spot on, RDW. I get the sense that Toonie thinks so too, hence Shuggie B being papped off on the 7s tour at every available opportunity while the club welcomed The Legend That Is Favaro.

However, you really must get over the sense of injustice about Roddy Grant. He was a fine club player, but as long as he spent every Slaughter Of The Effeminates in John Barclay's back pocket that was as close as he was ever going to get to a Scotland jersey.

[RDW]

It's not about a sense of injustice and I don't mean to just focus on him, but it really sends the wrong message to young up and coming Scottish players, and those club players who are grafting week in week out and getting nowhere with Scotland - a random Kiwi is brought over and gets a Scotland cap having hardly played any pro rugby, then buggers off again when things don't work out.

In what Universe is that a good way of doing things? I'm waiting on someone to come on and say 'that's pro rugby, get over it' but I just don't understand how people can be happy with a situation like this.

Scotland really have handed out far too many cheap caps over the last few years, especially compared to most other top 8 nations.  This is of course mainly down to a lack of strength in depth, but no one could claim that you really have to earn a Scotland cap. International rugby is meant to be for the best of the best yet we seem to give away caps as if they are on special offer in a discount store.

Of course it is no surprise to see you disparage the achievements of an Edinburgh player but as always you are being way overly harsh - Roddy Grant is probably one of the best players never to be capped by Scotland, having been a very consistent top level performer and put in many MOTM performances in his time.

[jimbopip]

Ah, RDW if only we had an emoticon of a fish wearing a shiny green mods badge with a big hook in it's mouth.

You can't help yourself, can you. whenever anyone drops the BBB (Barclay Back-pocket Bait) you just have to bite.

[RDW]

Ah see the whole going fishing claim doesn't stand up so well when the person firmly believe the things you are saying to prompt the reaction!

Jimbo you know you would rather hand wash Gordie Reid's pants than every admit that an Edinburgh player is any good!

[jimbopip]

Ah see the whole going fishing claim doesn't stand up so well when the person firmly believe the things you are saying to prompt the reaction!

Jimbo you know you would rather hand wash Gordie Reid's pants than every admit that an Edinburgh player is any good!

What pants? Shrek is a free spirit.

May I suggest that you read your post; the uncharacteristically high number of grammatical errors betrays your heightened emotional state. Either that or it's difficult to type with a big hook stuck in your gub.

I, however, have no difficulty typing with my tongue firmly in my cheek.

[RDW]

Edinburgh sign Tongan number 8 Viliami Fihaki

[nickj]

Not overly familar, but this makes sense.

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