Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[Diggers]

First topic message reminder :

I don't mind Paul Walsh at all, there are at least another 5 on the Sky Soccer Saturday that are way worse. Thompson is annoying , Nicolas just as bad, Merson is funny in an are you simple kind of way. George Best used to be worst of the lot.
I always found Graham Taylor's commentary annoying , that was his voice more than anything though.
In athletics Colin Jackson is very poor as is Denise Lewis.

[mystiroakey]

I dont think the FA has it right- i think roy got it spot on with what he had. but sometimes you have to sacrifice resluts(get worse) to get better. Roy is not the manager to move us forward*well lets be honest he hasnt moved any team forward only allways done well at the start of his roles)

We havent moved on, we just proved that you can be competitive when you play tactically

[Tiler76]

Agreed, I think Roy will "do a job" which won't be pretty but may be effective.

But who is the manager to move us forwards? Sven/Capello both have good cv's, even McLaren is a decent coach, we've tried the man-motivator in Keegan, so don't tell me 'Arry is the man, he'd soon realise he can't go and buy Modric/Bale/Van der Vaart.

[mystiroakey]

dunno dude. i suppose any manager that prides attacking or pretty football over industrious stuff.

ity more about the FA's approach though- not putting pressure on that manager for quick results.

I suppose pearce is the man due to doing ok at age level .

I am not that bothered about who the manager might be- but its got to be one that hasnt got a set way about him.The problem with hogson is he is so stubborn with his 4-4-2 approach. we need someone to learn on the job with the players with no real pressure for years.

England are only gonna turn the corner when we start from scratch and stop trying to do the best with what we have- we need to build for the future not the next cup

[Doon the Water]

I thought if funny that the Wolves striker Fletcher put himself about for the Olympic team. He snubbed Levien and Scotland so he is obviously a team player.
I think he has well and truly burned his boats now.

[Tiler76]

But we don't have the quality to play attacking, pretty football. At least making us solid defensively would be a start, but ultimately it's all about possession. If we haven't got the ball, we can't dictate out style of play, whatever that is.

Totally agree that the manager needs to be flexible and we should be thinking long-term. Not sure whether Hodgson is that man, but he's done a good job so far IMO.

McLaren probably fits the mould you describe, but you don't get the time to develop anything. Rightly or wrongly it's a results business.

[kwinigolfer]

Hodgson really has his work cut out for him if he aspires to a Spain-like possession game.
Not sure that I can think of a single quality English central midfielder between the ages of Gerrard/Barry/Parker and the Cleverley/Henderson generation, unless you include Milner.
None of the wide men do anywhere near enough in defence, not Walcott or Young, not Lennon and not Downing.
Hope we find out this year if Oxlade-C and Wilshere are the real thing. If not, we're in trouble.

[mystiroakey]

kwini- whilsire!!

fingers crossed he gets fit

[navyblueshorts]

How annoying is Virginia Wade?

Nice pins on these birds on centre court right now though.


Tiler, England enter a tournament which a chance commensurate with me crapping in the queens handbag.

Wade's OK for me. Andrew Castle on the other hand....
Which 'birds' were you watching? Watched some of Lisicki/Kerber. Something about Lisicki, looks like she's a laugh as well as fairly hot. Good player as well; pity she lost but made too many unforced errors.

[Skydriver]

Apparently, England are now the 4th best football team in the world. Italy are 6th.

As John might say - "HUH???"

[mystiroakey]

rankings dont take pen shoot outs or extra time into consideration.

they also dont take styles into consideration - only wins/loses and draws

[mystiroakey]

rankings are an indictaion of teams performance , nothing else matters in the eyes of rankings.

Everyone is entitled to rank there own teams if they want, but rankings only base things on real material data

[navyblueshorts]

Apparently, England are now the 4th best football team in the world. Italy are 6th.

As John might say - "HUH???"

Who comes up with this nonsense? Either someone with a sense of humour or the mechanism by which they compile the rankings is demonstrably flawed.

[navyblueshorts]

For the science geeks amongst us, looks like the Higgs may well be confirmed:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-18702455

[mystiroakey]

ok navy how would rank teams then?

x factor style vote offs, dancing pts systems?

or wins,loses and draws

[Skydriver]

To be fair (to some degree at least), people are known to say similar things about OWGR.

[mystiroakey]

dont get to het up on rankings- it defines the teams or players with the best results.

arguing the best way of playing football is another matter- but we cant really argue to much on rankings, we could argue how things are weighted but they are pretty deecent in fairness. England remain strong because they rarely lose in full time in tournies,qualyfing or friendlies. Its the way it is, But it doesnt mean we should be happy with the way england play - or that they are any closer to winning a tourny.

[navyblueshorts]

Oakey

We are NOT the 4th best footballing nation in the World. Officially we may be but I'm afraid it's pretty laughable. Still, must be the case as FIFA are such a fabulous organisation, they're bound to have got the system right...

[Diggers]

I think its worth people taking a look at how many games England have lost in the past few years and who they have lost them to.
Like Mysti says football isnt about style, its about results, Capello was sacked despite having one of the best, if not the best, win ratios in Englands history. Hodgsons record in open play thus far is played 6, won, 4 won drawn 2. If he was a Premiership manager dont think he'd get much stick for that start with any club.
Everyone can slate England, me included, but in the past few years they have barely lost to anyone. If people want to argue about Donald and his two years making him number one then they cant argue as to why England have such a high ranking.

[mystiroakey]

NBS England are offcialy ranked the 4th side in the world based on results. You can argue that football isnt just about results, thats fine. But rankings only take into account results.

Am i happy with the way england play- no way. different argument.

If people want to argue this, then at least provide a breakdown of how the rankings could be done better. Argue the formulas and produce a better system.

[navyblueshorts]

Maybe so Digs. I think we're way off 4th but we must, in fact, be 4th as the rankings say so. I look forward to beating Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, France, Russia in the near future and that doesn't even touch the upcoming African nations. Would we beat the Ivory Coast away? Somehow I doubt it.

[Diggers]

To look at it another way.....and this might but a dampner on those who want to talk up Spain as one of the great sides in history if not the greatest...the fact that England are 4th in th rankings says a lot about how poor most international sides are these days.
Brazil are down to 11th, the reason Italy are 6th is becasue they were 12 before the Euros as their form was awful.
Aside form Spain does any international side have a core of truly world class players ? Id say Brazil in the 70's had it much tougher and had to face Holland, Germany, even the England side of 1970 which was lauded as being our best ever.

[mystiroakey]

We all know rankings arnt gonna tell us who will beat who in a one off game NBS.

Its telling as what we have done before based on all games weighted on importance and time.

Rankings are there for seeding purposes and how we set up future qualifying groups.Previous results is the only thing we can measure that fairly on.

[McLaren]

If i could choose to understand anything, I think i would choose particle physics.

[navyblueshorts]

To look at it another way.....and this might but a dampner on those who want to talk up Spain as one of the great sides in history if not the greatest...the fact that England are 4th in th rankings says a lot about how poor most international sides are these days.
Brazil are down to 11th, the reason Italy are 6th is becasue they were 12 before the Euros as their form was awful.
Aside form Spain does any international side have a core of truly world class players ? Id say Brazil in the 70's had it much tougher and had to face Holland, Germany, even the England side of 1970 which was lauded as being our best ever.

An interesting point Digs. I think I'd buy it and I don't think the current Spanish team are the best ever albeit they're exceptional.

Mysti

We play the same teams over and over again. We never play the African nations let alone play them away. We almost never play the South Americans and we never play them away. The rankings are patently wrong, despite the fact they're the only (poor) measure we have to go by.

[navyblueshorts]

Footballers and their foot-in-mouthisms. Mark Bright talking about being someone who opposes the introduction of goal line technology in football:

"I know I stand alone - I'm probably one in a hundred."

(source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18692702)

Have to love them...

[Skydriver]

For the science geeks amongst us, looks like the Higgs may well be confirmed:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-18702455

It was rumoured that something like this would be announced today. Interesting, but I'm just glad that they haven't created a black hole in the vicinity of Switzerland in their quest. Any ideas what this might mean in practice within our lifetimes?

[mystiroakey]

They are not wrong nbs- they are based on results.

Europe is the strongest continent by a clear mile.

Its not about neccesarily england playing other teams from other regions- its about any team from europe, they bring the ranking points back with them when they beat them. We have the most ranking points because we fill the WC's up, for instance last wc in 2010 we had 3 european sides in the WC semi finals.

Infact WC's/and rankings are weighted against european nations. A higher quality world cup would actually have more european teams within.

If you want to look at a good place to be in terms of football and ranking points- you need to look at Americas region. There are allways falsely ranked because they allways get through to the WC due to lack of competition.

The fact that the World cup doesnt have the best sides in it goes against europes ranking's as a whole. Because weaker teams get to play in the finals at the expense of european teams and can gain higher rated ranking points.

You could argue that african teams are left out and are worse off- however the other regions are better off- asia, ocenaia and north americas.

As time goes on europe are actually getting stronger and stronger, but are getting striped of places ever year as well. Which is no drama in my view, we need to make it a truely global game. But it does go against european teams true rankings as a whole

[dynamark]

Im with you Mac the joy of understanding.Remember the old Carl Sagan books and Tv fascinating stuff.When I was at secondary school(45 yr ago) a mate was a member of an astronomical society and he used to come in on mondays talking about red giants and black holes WTF.Now he is professor of physics at St Andrews university aka Super?

[super_realist]

I thought it hilarious that England are ranked 4th.

What on earth is this based on, it is clear that they aren't even in the real top ten in the world so clearly the way in which the rankings are calculated is seriously wrong.

[mystiroakey]

they are based on results SR

[navyblueshorts]

For the science geeks amongst us, looks like the Higgs may well be confirmed:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-18702455

It was rumoured that something like this would be announced today. Interesting, but I'm just glad that they haven't created a black hole in the vicinity of Switzerland in their quest. Any ideas what this might mean in practice within our lifetimes?

What does it mean in our lifetimes? Damned if I know! The 'black hole' thing is just a Sun newspaper level of scaremongering.

[navyblueshorts]

Mysti

You're right re. rankings of Americas and Australasia however I would just take that to mean the system is scheiss. Period.

We are not the 4th best side in the World and I don't care what the 'Rankings' say.

[super_realist]

they are based on results SR

Clearly though there is a vast chasm between being ranked fourth and actually being the fourth best team in the world. They haven't got beyond the last 8 in a tournament since 96.

They aren't even the fourth best team in Europe. Not even close.

[mystiroakey]

dont look at it in regards to us being the 4th best. just look at it for what it is, a system trying its best to figure out seeding for the next qualifying.

Once Africa starts winning more in the WC's they will gain more ranking and eventually get more places in the World cup.

If somehow we could make the world cup a 64 team event - rankings may just start to work themselves out better.

Also if we had world qualfying groups- rankings could work them selves out better but we would have no garanteed spots for regions..

But its not about rankings is it- they are meaningless as a number- its all about what teams get to play on the world stage- which is based on these rankings in a way- but perhaps not even enough

but all of that is a pipe dream due to logistics

[Skydriver]

The 'black hole' thing is just a Sun newspaper level of scaremongering.

Yes, I remember laughing and saying similar to my brother, who seemed genuinely concerned. I don't think the laughing helped on reflection.

[super_realist]

a 64 team world cup would be a disaster, there are already too many rubbish teams and pointless games in there. 64 teams would be like the Rugby World CUp with teams that don't even play the game to SPL standard. It would be awful.

[dynamark]

From my limited knowledge folks I think you will find we are going to hurtling towards a black hole.Hopefully will stay out of the singularity for the next 30 yrs or so.

[navyblueshorts]

...I don't think the laughing helped on reflection.

Wish I understood physics better. My maths was never good enough and I'm not good with abstract concepts either. Still, on the bright side it's undoubtedly another little nail in the coffin of Religion as a theory of the Universe .

[Diggers]

Will the Hioggs boson reveal to us that all humans are descended from aliens, thetans, from 80 trillion years ago and that Tom Cruise is to our natural leader of the universe ?

[navyblueshorts]

From my limited knowledge folks I think you will find we are going to hurtling towards a black hole.Hopefully will stay out of the singularity for the next 30 yrs or so.

Depends if our orbit around our supermassive black hole is decaying or not I guess. I think you'll be OK for 30 years or so though.

[navyblueshorts]

Will the Hioggs boson reveal to us that all humans are descended from aliens, thetans, from 80 trillion years ago and that Tom Cruise is to our natural leader of the universe ?

Tom Cruise.....oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

[mystiroakey]

a 64 team world cup would be a disaster, there are already too many rubbish teams and pointless games in there. 64 teams would be like the Rugby World CUp with teams that don't even play the game to SPL standard. It would be awful.

but it would aid the world game, and be much fairer on developing countries and would allow for a better ranking ..

Look SR we cant fix the rankings to what you percieve are the best teams, the system is close to being perfect as we can only base it on results. England are the only team along with spain not to loose a game in the euros. therefore england has moved up. Italy/portugal have also moved up, and spain are still no.1.

But what we could do as to what myself and NBS has alluded to is make more teams play each other from different regions. That would naturally aid the rankings

[Diggers]

I think what is undeniable is that England are a very tough side to beat, regardless of how pants they look.

[McLaren]

I often think about going back to uni to study physics, sadly it would now cost me £9000 a year. So maybe not?

I always get really annoyed with people who claim endeavours like space exploration or the LHC are a waste of money. It may just be propaganda but there is a stat that says something like the US economy got $100 back for every $1 spent on Apollo.

You would have to think having a more sound model for particle physics will provide even greater returns.

[mystiroakey]

Mclarean just do it!! its never to late- you can get a loan anyway- which you wont have to pay off untill you earn decent money

[Diggers]

I think space exploration is a waste of money.

[McLaren]

mysti

I already have one student loan to pay off without adding another.

Diggers, nice try at wumming but I cant be arsed to bite.

[Diggers]

I think it is, bit of a stupid extravagance when we have millions starving really. So we went to the moon ... maybe ......so what.

[dynamark]

Probably not a lot of point sending people up there but some of the other telescope stuff is superb.A lot and the links available via the BBC site.

[McLaren]

Diggers

What like the moon money would have went to helping the poor if not spent on apollo? I think not.

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