Mike Phillips on the booze again

First topic message reminder :

Mike Phillips, scrum-half for Bayonne and Wales, faces action for being 'drunk' during a training session

Wales scrum-half Mike Phillips in trouble with club Bayonne following his alleged drunkeness during a video analysis session

I don't think MP has a booze problem. A serious lack of judgement problem tho. If you've a video session or a team meeting in the morning, you don't go out on the lash the previous night do you? Hard done by maybe but I do believe he's been made a bit of a scapegoat by Bayonne.

Griff wrote:But not apologised for though. That's the TJ I have come to know.

Oh I'll quite happily apologise to you if you feel slighted. I thought accepting the correction implied an apology.

The Saint wrote:quins, you did this last night. Resorted to BS posts when you don't have a clue.

Happy to admit TJ was wrong with his claim then? If he was of the opinion, fair enough... But he would have to have had the assessment carried out. Why don't you get back to us if such an assessment is carried out? The incidents are spread out through the years, it's just foolish behaviour. It's not a problem IMO. Besides, you wouldn't have known what it was like in Cardiff on a night out for him. I bet there were a few local thugs who wanted to have a pop for no reason.

you just don't get it. i don't need to have a clue. all the information is in the public domain. bayonne x2, mcdonalds, wales, taxi driver, etc etc. anything said by the so-called "haters" is nothing more than an interpretation of factually available information into an opinion.

the real litmus test will be whether even any of the welsh regions will take him back. unless they too obviously dont have a clue and dont understand.... 

Not really, no.

quinsforever wrote:

The Saint wrote:quins, you did this last night. Resorted to BS posts when you don't have a clue.

Happy to admit TJ was wrong with his claim then? If he was of the opinion, fair enough... But he would have to have had the assessment carried out. Why don't you get back to us if such an assessment is carried out? The incidents are spread out through the years, it's just foolish behaviour. It's not a problem IMO. Besides, you wouldn't have known what it was like in Cardiff on a night out for him. I bet there were a few local thugs who wanted to have a pop for no reason.

you just don't get it. i don't need to have a clue. all the information is in the public domain. bayonne x2, mcdonalds, wales, taxi driver, etc etc. anything said by the so-called "haters" is nothing more than an interpretation of factually available information into an opinion.

the real litmus test will be whether even any of the welsh regions will take him back. unless they too obviously dont have a clue and dont understand.... 

Quins have expressed an interest already. Seriously.

Griff wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

The Saint wrote:quins, you did this last night. Resorted to BS posts when you don't have a clue.

Happy to admit TJ was wrong with his claim then? If he was of the opinion, fair enough... But he would have to have had the assessment carried out. Why don't you get back to us if such an assessment is carried out? The incidents are spread out through the years, it's just foolish behaviour. It's not a problem IMO. Besides, you wouldn't have known what it was like in Cardiff on a night out for him. I bet there were a few local thugs who wanted to have a pop for no reason.

you just don't get it. i don't need to have a clue. all the information is in the public domain. bayonne x2, mcdonalds, wales, taxi driver, etc etc. anything said by the so-called "haters" is nothing more than an interpretation of factually available information into an opinion.

the real litmus test will be whether even any of the welsh regions will take him back. unless they too obviously dont have a clue and dont understand.... 

Quins have expressed an interest already. Seriously.

haha. we can rotate him with danny care if they agree to share a salary and take alternate months of drinking.

TJ, you didn't know how many incidents MP was involved in, somebody had to help you out. Unfortunately some of that which MP has been involved in is normality, if you don't know that you don't get out much. This only reaches ears because of Mike's profile and it isn't that many incidents to be fair, some of which are hardly worth thinking about. If you're of a different opinion then fair enough, but you can't accuse him of having an alcohol problem unless it's been proven as fact.

I can only believe that your judgement on this has been clouded by Mike's welshness...

quinsforever wrote:

The Saint wrote:quins, you did this last night. Resorted to BS posts when you don't have a clue.

Happy to admit TJ was wrong with his claim then? If he was of the opinion, fair enough... But he would have to have had the assessment carried out. Why don't you get back to us if such an assessment is carried out? The incidents are spread out through the years, it's just foolish behaviour. It's not a problem IMO. Besides, you wouldn't have known what it was like in Cardiff on a night out for him. I bet there were a few local thugs who wanted to have a pop for no reason.

you just don't get it. i don't need to have a clue. all the information is in the public domain. bayonne x2, mcdonalds, wales, taxi driver, etc etc. anything said by the so-called "haters" is nothing more than an interpretation of factually available information into an opinion.

the real litmus test will be whether even any of the welsh regions will take him back. unless they too obviously dont have a clue and dont understand.... 

Your posts are really, really stupid. Do you and your posts have much in common?

You've come to a conclusion from those incidents, some of which are hardly anything. Your conclusion isn't proven by medical or psychological fact. It really is that simple.

You're going to be receiving some stick if he ends up Danny Care's team mate aren't ya....

quinsforever wrote:

Griff wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

The Saint wrote:quins, you did this last night. Resorted to BS posts when you don't have a clue.

Happy to admit TJ was wrong with his claim then? If he was of the opinion, fair enough... But he would have to have had the assessment carried out. Why don't you get back to us if such an assessment is carried out? The incidents are spread out through the years, it's just foolish behaviour. It's not a problem IMO. Besides, you wouldn't have known what it was like in Cardiff on a night out for him. I bet there were a few local thugs who wanted to have a pop for no reason.

you just don't get it. i don't need to have a clue. all the information is in the public domain. bayonne x2, mcdonalds, wales, taxi driver, etc etc. anything said by the so-called "haters" is nothing more than an interpretation of factually available information into an opinion.

the real litmus test will be whether even any of the welsh regions will take him back. unless they too obviously dont have a clue and dont understand.... 

Quins have expressed an interest already. Seriously.

haha. we can rotate him with danny care if they agree to share a salary and take alternate months of drinking.

Serious question though: how has Care still got a contract even though, on the face of it, he has a serious alcohol problem in the same way as Phillips - if incidents and news reports are to be believed?

Its a lot of incidents, its obvious he has a serious alcohol problem, Any sportsman getting into fights and being arrested for being drunk repeatedly would get into the headlines, l he is not that famous anyway, its a repeated pattern of behaviour. Its not normal behaviour to be suspended, sacked and arrested for drunkenness.  I did know of these others hence I said many more than 3, its nothing to do with him being welsh

A problem drinker is one whos drinking affects the rest of his life - like getting sacked for being drunk at work,

Get that chip of your shoulder.

Okay, I may be old fashioned but how many of you lads have come to the attention of the police on more than one occasion because of alcohol, been involved in several serious fights because of alcohol, been suspended from work twice because of alcohol and then eventually sacked because of alcohol?

This is not normal "lads" behaviour.

MrsP wrote:Okay, I may be old fashioned but how many of you lads have come to the attention of the police on more than one occasion because of alcohol, been involved in several serious fights because of alcohol, been suspended from work twice because of alcohol and then eventually sacked because of alcohol?

This is not normal "lads" behaviour.

is if you're saint apparently

The Saint wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

The Saint wrote:quins, you did this last night. Resorted to BS posts when you don't have a clue.

Happy to admit TJ was wrong with his claim then? If he was of the opinion, fair enough... But he would have to have had the assessment carried out. Why don't you get back to us if such an assessment is carried out? The incidents are spread out through the years, it's just foolish behaviour. It's not a problem IMO. Besides, you wouldn't have known what it was like in Cardiff on a night out for him. I bet there were a few local thugs who wanted to have a pop for no reason.

you just don't get it. i don't need to have a clue. all the information is in the public domain. bayonne x2, mcdonalds, wales, taxi driver, etc etc. anything said by the so-called "haters" is nothing more than an interpretation of factually available information into an opinion.

the real litmus test will be whether even any of the welsh regions will take him back. unless they too obviously dont have a clue and dont understand.... 

Your posts are really, really stupid. Do you and your posts have much in common?

You've come to a conclusion from those incidents, some of which are hardly anything. Your conclusion isn't proven by medical or psychological fact. It really is that simple.

You're going to be receiving some stick if he ends up Danny Care's team mate aren't ya....

i love it. "some of which are hardly anything" - is that the one he ended up in the back of a police van? or the one he attacked an entirely sober taxi driver? i have one word for you. Appeasement. given you've probably only recently left formal education you might not actually need to look that one up.  

i would love to see danny care gonzo by the way, thanks for asking.

To all, how is it repeatedly, it's incidents spread out over 4-5 years. Surely any sort of problem would have been diagnosed long ago? It might just be me but I can't take TJ's internet diagnosis seriously. But I guess I must have a chip on my shoulder for not bowing down to TJ's theory based on naff all, I'm interested to hear what his prognosis for MP is. Now he's a problem drinker according to TJ who's probably never met him, isn't that magic.

MRS P, I don't class that as normal behaviour for lads, but similar incidents happen often in South Wales. I can't comment on people being suspended from work because of alcohol because I don't know anyone who has been in that situation...

Quins, again it's your opinion. Jeez you really don't understand. You weren't present for any of the incidents and some of which were naff all. you really are stupid to believe the story from the papers.

Too be fair Saint, these stories have all been confirmed as true either by Phillips himself or by his employers or the police.

I would say that anyone who has been disciplined in work three times because of alcohol has a problem by definition.

Too be honest, the fact that these incidents are spread over such a long time frame is more concerning. There is not too much evidence of any change in his behaviour.

You may be misunderstanding the term "problem drinker". This does not necessarily mean drunk all the time or even drinking everyday.

I think you need to look up the definition of "repeatedly"

He has been arrested, restrained by bouncers, barred from pubs, suspended and sacked.  One definition of a problem drinker is one whos drinking effects their life adversely.

"Problem drinker" and "alcoholic" are not synonyms. I think that may be a part of your confusion.

http://www.alcoholandfamilies.org.uk/documents/8/8.3_advice_for_problem_drinkers/advice_problem_drinkers1.htm

Quins by the way, I've reported your post because it's libelous. You claimed Mike Phillips "attacked an entirely sober taxi driver?" when that didn't happen according to the reports. If you read the reports, they actually suggest otherwise. Hence all cases being dropped.

quinsforever wrote: or the one he attacked an entirely sober taxi driver? i have one word for you. Appeasement. given you've probably only recently left formal education you might not actually need to look that one up.  

i would love to see danny care gonzo by the way, thanks for asking.

The Saint wrote:To all, how is it repeatedly, it's incidents spread out over 4-5 years. Surely any sort of problem would have been diagnosed long ago? It might just be me but I can't take TJ's internet diagnosis seriously. But I guess I must have a chip on my shoulder for not bowing down to TJ's theory based on naff all, I'm interested to hear what his prognosis for MP is. Now he's a problem drinker according to TJ who's probably never met him, isn't that magic.

MRS P, I don't class that as normal behaviour for lads but similar incidents happen often in South Wales. I can't comment on people being suspended from work because of alcohol because I don't know anyone who has been in that situation...

Quins, again it's your opinion. Jeez you really don't understand. You weren't present for any of the incidents and some of which were naff all. you really are stupid to believe the story from the papers.

Neither, as far as we know, were you.

Yes the meeja tend to blow things out of proportion and we all know how one or two incidents can get people a bad and sometimes undeserved reputation. Of the current situation the only thing we can say with certainty is that MP has been with Bayonne for a couple of seasons and should know how they operate by now, and they him. He has got himself the sack through his own bad behavior. It might be bad luck, not being settled or just plain stupidity, but it has happened.

What is more anyone else who takes him on is going to be very cautious. He isnt going to be getting any big pay days in the near future unless he can show he has turned things around, and he has got to be bloody careful how he manages going out for a few drinks in the future because the standards that are going to be expected of him from now on are not going to be fair.

Mrs P/TJ, you're right I did misunderstand the term problem drinker. Also, I know what repeatedly means but I think it's a word being used out of context. By that, I mean that I'm asking you to consider that Phillips is out every weekend and the incidents have been scarce, over 4-5 years. And also, consider the 'incidents' in which a bouncer had to pin him down because McDonald's was closed. Why is that such a big deal? Police didn't charge Mike with anything, same with the taxi incident which we don't know much about. That third incident in Cardiff, Mike was assaulted. I think that one is being unfairly used against him. Sodabar stops letting ALL people in at 3am, so Mike wasn't barred either. So, it's clear that some people go for Mike and he gets into trouble. A gang of people went for Andy Powell when he was at a pub in London and the reason why he probably didn't do anything is because he would get the blame for it.

Turning up for work under the influence of alcohol happens to people I know... Except in the world of sport. So, I can understand why MP has been in trouble with his employers. It's not an alcohol problem to me, I'd say it is maybe more of a discipline issue, and that's just Mike.

lostinwales, I don't think i've claimed or led anyone to believe I was there. What I did hear about the McDonalds incident though was from a witness, that person took a picture of Mike shortly before the incident if I remember rightly, though I don't think they were the one to snap the incident. I also know barstaff who have dealt with him at Sodabar, so I think I know a little bit about his persona. There are a few people here who like to think they were present for the incidents and have MP all figured out though. I agree with the rest of your post pal.

You really think being fighting drunk, refused entry to a premises, having to be restrained by door staff face down on the ground until police arrive is no big deal?

None of us are claiming to have been there during any of these incidents as far as I can see.

You don't need to have been there to worry about the patterns of behaviour that they highlight though.

3 alcohol related disciplinary incidents at work are more than enough to cause me to be seriously worried that alcohol is a problem for MP. It has made him unemployed at the very least.

The Saint wrote:lostinwales, I don't think i've claimed or led anyone to believe I was there. What I did hear about the McDonalds incident though was from a witness, that person took a picture of Mike shortly before the incident if I remember rightly, though I don't think they were the one to snap the incident. I also know barstaff who have dealt with him at Sodabar, so I think I know a little bit about his persona. There are a few people here who like to think they were present for the incidents and have MP all figured out though. I agree with the rest of your post pal.

Cheers Saint. Its just a sad situation really.

TJ, no, I honestly don't believe being pinned down by McDonald's security staff is a big deal. There was probably no need for police involvement, however it was Mike and the security staff were likely unsure of how to deal with a rugby star. MP was being his pr!ck self so I was told, just like he usually is at Sodabar. He purchases £80 worth of rounds of drink and thinks he doesn't have to pay up, because "I'm Mike Phillips." What I/we heard about the McDonald's incident could be wrong, but to me it doesn't seem like a big deal, bouncers chuck people out of establishments a few times per night. Again Mrs P, I don't think alocohol is the problem until it can be proven. Until then, I think it's a Mike Phillips problem. Some of the accusations are just downright uncalled for.

The Saint wrote:Quins by the way, I've reported your post because it's libelous. You claimed Mike Phillips "attacked an entirely sober taxi driver?" when that didn't happen according to the reports. If you read the reports, they actually suggest otherwise. Hence all cases being dropped.

quinsforever wrote: or the one he attacked an entirely sober taxi driver? i have one word for you. Appeasement. given you've probably only recently left formal education you might not actually need to look that one up.  

i would love to see danny care gonzo by the way, thanks for asking.

so you're presumably suing? good luck son. you realise attack can be verbal or physical  again

you should probably sue the newspapers who published articles around the time. given that in media libel cases its circulation that counts, i think you'd probably best go after newspapers than someone repeating newspaper articles on a forum with a circulation of less.

seriously, i would absolutely love to be sued by mike philips for commenting on his behaviour while repeatedly drunk. would make my year. the entertainment value would be immense. only better scenario would be if u sued me on his behalf saint. do you understand how libel works my friend?  

Foolishly, you didn't specify either. And you used it in a derogative manner. The mods can deal with that, I'm done with it.

i hereby indemnify 606v2 against any libel action from Mike Philips in relation to anything i have posted on this forum. I encourage Mike Philips to contact my lawyers. Details will be available on request.

The Saint wrote:Foolishly, you didn't specify either. And you used it in a derogative manner. The mods can deal with that, I'm done with it.

 thats the point.

The Saint wrote:TJ, no, I honestly don't believe being pinned down by McDonald's security staff is a big deal. There was probably no need for police involvement, however it was Mike and the security staff were likely unsure of how to deal with a rugby star. MP was being his pr!ck self so I was told, just like he usually is at Sodabar. He purchases £80 worth of rounds of drink and thinks he doesn't have to pay up, because "I'm Mike Phillips." What I/we heard about the McDonald's incident could be wrong, but to me it doesn't seem like a big deal, bouncers chuck people out of establishments a few times per night. Again Mrs P, I don't think alocohol is the problem until it can be proven. Until then, I think it's a Mike Phillips problem. Some of the accusations are just downright uncalled for.

What kind of proof are you looking for?

He has lost his job because he turned up drunk for work having previously been suspended for an alcohol related incident.

Apart from a Blood Alcohol and GGT levels that's as close as you are going to get!

We are back to you having some reluctance to accept the evidence.

Mrs P, for me it needs to be diagnosed by a professional. Or Mike seeking help adamant he has this issue. Do you think he was hungover at video analysis or do you think he had been drinking the morning he got up before attending? If Bayonne weren't in danger of being near the bottom of Top14, thus relegation, would they have been more reluctant to trim their squad?

From what I know, it isn't extraordinary behaviour to act in this manner when under the influence, and I'm not saying it is acceptable, I'm just saying it happens often. Mike is a normal bloke, he just needs to be careful because of his profile. His profession should make him conduct himself more appopriately on a social night out, there has been a few incidents (some of which blown out of proprtion) where he hasn't. Bad luck? Don't know. Not an alcohol problem, I think.

What on earth has Bayonne's position in the Top 14 got to do with whether Phillips was drunk or not?

It might have been a factor in deciding the sanction, although with a previous suspension it is hard to see what other option they had.

Where in the Top 14 where they the last time drink got MP in trouble?

2 alcohol related incidences like this, resulting in being fired, sounds like alcohol abuse to me. Technically if he was hungover that is exactly the same from a medical diagnosis point of view as if he were drunk, social harm and the disregard and damage to occupational pursuits must be due to the effects of alcohol use, including acute intoxification or withdrawal (including hangovers)

careful, anything you say might be libelous or evidence of your welsh-haterish-ness  

Nothing I've written is libellous though

And if Phillips has an alcohol problem it's a reason to hope he kicks it not to hate him or mock him

ChequeredJersey wrote:And if Phillips has an alcohol problem it's a reason to hope he kicks it not to hate him or mock him

+1

i agree. was being slightly ironic. and not in relation to MP.

MrsP wrote:What on earth has Bayonne's position in the Top 14 got to do with whether Phillips was drunk or not?

It might have been a factor in deciding the sanction, although with a previous suspension it is hard to see what other option they had.

Where in the Top 14 where they the last time drink got MP in trouble?

I'm insinuating that there is a chance that Bayonne are looking to reduce spending and trim their squad, with talks of a possible merger with Biarritz coming in. This is speculation but if they were not in that position do you think they may have just suspended Mike and fined him instead of sacking him? And if that was the result do you think people would still be convinced he has an alcohol problem? I agree, their options were limited given the circumstances and the profession. Though the result probably would have been the same in most professions. Also, if we worked together and you turned up to work hungover, were warned and then repeated the offence down the line, resulting in your dismissal I wouldn't assume you had an alcohol problem. I'd assume you like a drink now n again like everyone else. But I wouldn't jump to that conclusion unless you were adamant you have this problem and were to seek help.

Saint,

If you were a friend of mine and I lost my job because of my drinking I would hope you would encourage me to address my use of alcohol.

MrsP wrote:Saint,

If you were a friend of mine and I lost my job because of my drinking I would hope you would encourage me to address my use of alcohol.

I agree, but it's one of those discussions not easy to broach with a friend. The friend may not like it, maybe even less so if they have a genuine problem.

I also believe that when people hear the words 'drink problem' they immediately think addiction, but this is not always true. For someone to turn up at work with a hangover after being warned their job is at risk if they do; that's a drink problem of some sort.

Harmful use of alcohol is separate to dependence but still an issue and it's very possible to have a problem without a medical diagnosis

This is all very constructive. It's a shame the thread was earlier derailed by libelous accusations and dumb anti-MP statements.  

The saint - would you please point out either?

I've said that I already alerted one of the libelous posts TJ. I'd like to move on from it now, unless we hear more news on a new MP drink-related issue this season.

So... the 6th episode will be the one which convinces you when the first 5 left you doubting?

Okay.

A word of advice though. Those friends who lose their jobs and their families etc due to alcohol almost always are the very last people to admit that they have a problem. If you have a friend like that, support them, but do not facilitate their problem by making excuses for them.

Saint, there have been no libellous posts here. I think you have been a tad over-sensitive.

Mike Phillips is one of the world's top international rugby players. He's probably up there with some of the best -paid in the game, and his talent deserves those rewards.

As a consequence, he is going to be held to much higher standards than fellow professionals, let alone those who turn out at amateur levels.

The Saint- are you MP new PR advisor? If no, I suggest to apply for such position  

Doubt we will hear from another MP alleged drink related incident for a while and who would care anyway. He will get himself straight for team Wales and perform well during the AIs, I have no doubt about that.
My personal opinion is that MP is not an alcoholic but rather someone who indulges occasionally in binge drinking and doesnt know its own limit. More an attitude problem basically.
Good luck with the storm everyone. Been very windy today here and its quite far from the coast!

The Saint wrote:This is all very constructive. It's a shame the thread was earlier derailed by libelous accusations and dumb anti-MP statements.  

 the thread was fine until you joined it and started posting without having read anything that went before, or reading anything that might force you to open your eyes after. awesome that you managed to keep the denying up so long frankly. was truly impressive.

whocares wrote:The Saint- are you MP new PR advisor? If no, I suggest to apply for such position  

Doubt we will hear from another MP alleged drink related incident for a while and who would care anyway. He will get himself straight for team Wales and perform well during the AIs, I have no doubt about that.
My personal opinion is that MP is not an alcoholic but rather someone who indulges occasionally in binge drinking and doesnt know its own limit. More an attitude problem basically.
Good luck with the storm  everyone. Been very windy today here and its quite far from the coast!

Nail, Head, Well Hit  

Whocares. I'm glad you are online.
How is Oyonnax correctly pronounced? My limited knowledge of French says it ends with the 'acks' sound at the end - just as in Dax.

Sorry for hijacking the post.