Michael Noel Brown v Rob Kearney

First topic message reminder :

As it says on the tin ,
Who is the better?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

I've find your posts rather pathetic tbh, trawling threads to knock the English and their players.

Rich accusation when you trawl Wales threads looking to constantly knock their team, players and fans. I really have no idea why you'd make the accusation against someone else when you constantly engage in that behaviour?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I'd rather just talk about rugby but you try and make everything against Wales. Wales are not in England's eye line, we battered them and moved on.

It's rather ironic that the Welsh wums are jumping on Ireland's success because they've performed so poorly of late.

But their fans are constantly talking about Wales as of late... And you can delude yourself as much as you like, but the reality is that only Ireland battered us. England started very well against Wales and then got two incorrect penalty decisions go their way in the space of 5 mins as Wales were beginning to gain ascendency. We wouldn't have won, but the difference I'm highlighting is the fans. We accepted we weren't good enough and moved on. It was only up until post England vs Wales game you still hadn't accepted that you were soundly beaten in Cardiff the previous year.

Nobody is jumping on Ireland's success so again I'm not sure where you get the foundations for this BS comment? Wales fans wouldn't need to, as lately they've tasted success. It was actually happening quite regularly .

England hammered Wales and it's got nothing at all to do with this thread so why keep going on about it??

Come on Saint, get back on topic rather than whinging constantly.

I'm pointing out that you bring that up (as it involves Wales) on every thread.

I think Brown is probably just ahead of Kearney right now, but Foden is probably still the man for England (unless he takes Johnny May's place on the wing).

Good to have you back on topic, this England bashing is getting tiresome.

Yeah, allow normality IE, Wales Bashing, to resume.

Topic Saint.....stay on it!

Scratch wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:

Scratch wrote:And for the record there is no comparison between Kearney and Brown.
The former is a legend in NH rugby, an Irish and Lions legend who is arguably the best counter attacking and high ball receiving FB we have ever seen up here and reminds me of Latham. Brown has had 1 good tournament.

Odd post that Scratch. In the first paragraph you say there is no comparison between Kearney and Brown. In the second paragraph you make a comparison.  

Your hyperbolic description of Kearney has no credibility.  He is clearly a very good player but the best ever? Serge Blanco and JPR spring to mind as just two greater players.

Not odd at all unless you have no comprehension of the grammatical vehicle i used to express my belief that they are not comparable i.e. there is no comparison because they are poles apart.

You offer no comment at all on either player instead taking a puny shot at what you fail to comprehend in my text.

1 is a legend and IMO the best attacking full back i have seen in the NH and the 2nd has had 1 good season….credible enough for you?

Yep Kearney did have a very good season back in, what was it? 2009?

The Saint wrote:I'm pointing out that you bring that up (as it involves Wales) on every thread.

I think Brown is probably just ahead of Kearney right now, but Foden is probably still the man for England (unless he takes Johnny May's place on the wing).

Foden was England's best player for a couple of years and he has some great attributes. He is another guy who is much stronger than he looks, and he has to be faster than Brown, but Brown just breaks tackles for fun and he is way ahead right now.

To be honest it will just be good to see Foden getting a run of games for once, but even if he got back to his best form he is still going to be no.2 unless Brown's form falls away.

As for Kearney vs Brown both sets of fans have every right to prefer their own guy over the other one, and they are both very important parts of their respective teams, and thats how it should be. You can't argue that Kearney had a better 6N than Brown despite Ireland finishing on top by a tight tight margin, but of course he does have a lot more in terms of past achievements.

Scratch wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:

Scratch wrote:And for the record there is no comparison between Kearney and Brown.
The former is a legend in NH rugby, an Irish and Lions legend who is arguably the best counter attacking and high ball receiving FB we have ever seen up here and reminds me of Latham. Brown has had 1 good tournament.

Odd post that Scratch. In the first paragraph you say there is no comparison between Kearney and Brown. In the second paragraph you make a comparison.  

Your hyperbolic description of Kearney has no credibility.  He is clearly a very good player but the best ever? Serge Blanco and JPR spring to mind as just two greater players.

Not odd at all unless you have no comprehension of the grammatical vehicle i used to express my belief that they are not comparable i.e. there is no comparison because they are poles apart.

You offer no comment at all on either player instead taking a puny shot at what you fail to comprehend in my text.

1 is a legend and IMO the best attacking full back i have seen in the NH and the 2nd has had 1 good season….credible enough for you?

Kearney is a good player but to describe him as a legend and the greatest ever does seem odd. I appreciate that that is your opinion but I don't think it is widely shared.

Not many would put him up there with Blanco, JPR or Andy Irvine. For a year or two he was the best in NH which is a great achievement. Now he has been overtaken. He will be remembered as a very good player but in thirty years time will people recall him in the same way they now do Serge Blanco or JPR Williams. I very much doubt it.

P.S. The bit about no comparison was just a joke.

You know you can all acknowledge what a terrific rugby player Brown is without having to knock down Kearney! Kearney had a really terrific campaign for Ireland, and most years he'd be most peoples 15 of the tournament, so he'd be garnering lots of praise if not for the fact Brown was absolutely phenomenal this year.

At the same time, you don't need to talk up Rob Kearney beyond what he has done and achieved and present him as better than he really is to knock down Brown!   

But Kearney is a B&I lions legend Notch?!?!

Scrumpy wrote:I just hope that a certain poster isn't involved with the grass roots of our game as his attitude towards other fans is a disgrace.

says it all scrimpy, another pathetic personal attack and you don't even have the cohones to name names

Sgt_Pooly wrote:But Kearney is a B&I lions legend Notch?!?!

have you ever been on a lions tour? i doubt it, and certainly not 2009 or you would understand that almost every fan believed Kearney was part of the heart and soul of the tour

Scratch, let's keep on topic and stop it with the personals.

Kearney is not a Lions legend, bizarre comment.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Scratch, let's keep on topic and stop it with the personals.

Kearney is not a Lions legend, bizarre comment.

Pooly, how is that personal?

It is clear you have never been near a lions tour so your POV on kearney's value to one lacks any credibility

Here we go again.

Going on a Lions tour doesn't make you an oracle on rugby, it doesn't make your opinion any more valid.

I doubt you went on the 2009 tour as it was pre 2012 when you started watching rugby.

I don't hold this against you, it means absolutely nothing.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Here we go again.

Going on a Lions tour doesn't make you an oracle on rugby, it doesn't make your opinion any more valid.

I doubt you went on the 2009 tour as it was pre 2012 when you started watching rugby.

I don't hold this against you, it means absolutely nothing.

Look, i clearly get right under your skin, you have to trawl through my posts to find stuff i have written

where did i say i started watching rugby in 2012?

And yes being on a full Lions tour does change your POV on what it means. If and when you go on one - and i hope you do as I think you really need to - then you will understand that you become part of the tour, you meet the players and find out their opinions on their colleagues then you know more about an armchair fan such as yourself.

I miss the good old days when Christopher Ashton was the messiah.
Now Brown can walk on water because he scored a try.

Give me a summer tour over a lions tour any day.


Yes I really mean that.

Christopher Ashton still is the messiah..........just wait for his resurrection.......it's going to be biblical.

Too right Scrumpy, the Lions is a interesting spectacle but I'd prefer following England on a tour to the SH.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:But Kearney is a B&I lions legend Notch?!?!

How can you go on about Kearney being a B@I lion. It like saying that some one played one/two games for the Abs, and are considerd World Champions. When they are not.

Kearney was good on the Lions tour and he is still good now. But i do think/believe that at this moment in time Brown has taken over in being the best 15 in the NH. And not the best in the World. Not yet any way.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Too right Scrumpy, the Lions is a interesting spectacle but I'd prefer following England on a tour to the SH.

Are you going to NZ….i really hope you have fun watching england.   

Scratch, there is another thread running about a best Irish team of the last half century. Interestingly, Rob Kearney has not been mentioned so far. It would seem that Irish fans do not think he is the greatest ever Irish fullback so certainly not greatest ever in NH.

majesticimperialman wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:But Kearney is a B&I lions legend Notch?!?!

How can you go on about Kearney being a B@I lion. It like saying that some one played one/two games for the Abs, and are considerd World Champions. When they are not.

Kearney was good on the Lions tour and he is still good now. But i do think/believe that at this moment in time Brown has taken over in being the best 15 in the NH. And not the  best in the World. Not yet any way.

It was a tongue in cheek comment about a previous post Maj.

Kearney is obviously not a Lions legend, it's just a bizarre thing to say. He's been a very solid option for Ireland and had a great year in 2009.

Brown is currently playing better and ranks no1 in the NH imo. (Brown, Kearney, Hogg, Dulin)

BT just showed Niki Goneva's stats for this season as part of the build-up to the Tigers-Chiefs match. It struck me how similar his stats - over 16 games - were to Brown's international stats over the 5 games of the 6N.

Goneva - Statistic - Brown
526 - Metres Gained - 543
25 - Defenders Beaten - 25
10 - Clean Breaks - 10
8 - Tries - 4

Ok, different positions but Goneva is one of the top wingers in the AP and it's a measure of how good Brown's performance was.

It's a difficult comparison between 2 very different players who have had 2 very different careers at both club and int level.

Do you take honours won?

Kearney - 2/3 HC's / Rabo's, GS, 6N, Lions selection, Test selection, IRFU player of year 2009?

Brown - AP x2? Triple Crown, 6N?, 6N player OTT 2014.

1 is far more impressive (I know both are not 100% accurate)

Or do you take current form? If so do you factor attacking abilities, defencive abilities, international attacking styles to involve or not involve them?

There are a hundred different ways to compare, and noone will ever agree.

For me right now, both are playing 2nd fiddle to at least Folau, AND Dagg, does either attack with as much pace as Hogg? no. Does either effect matches as much as Halfpenny does? no.

I would probably use the acid test of who would drop their player for the others, England would never drop Brown for Kearney, but neither would Ireland drop Kearney for Brown.

Kearney has the better boot by a mile, and is probably better defencively and more rounded, Brown counters better, gets involved more, and has better vision, if I were to pick one...

I wouldn't!

Exiledinborders wrote:Scratch, there is another thread running about a best Irish team of the last half century. Interestingly, Rob Kearney has not been mentioned so far. It would seem that Irish fans do not think he is the greatest ever Irish fullback so certainly not greatest ever in NH.

My opinion of Kearney is inviolable. It is my opinion, i don't expect others to share it or care if they do, and my respect for him as a Lion, a tour every true fan of the game should go on, remains the same.

Brown has had a good season, no one is arguing with that, but he is nowhere near as good as Dulin for natural talent and Halfpenny for defense. Any rating of the 6 Nations fullbacks omitting halfpenny is clearly a deliberate and fundamental misunderstanding of what makes a great fb.

Kearney
Dulin
Halfpenny
Brown
Hogg

Sir Mike Brown anyone?

He deserves it if he puts in another couple of years service like the last one for England. 

Its neither here nor there but The Independent has said that Hansen thinks that Brown is currently the best FB.

It doesnt matter who is the best seeing as its teams that tend to win things rather than players. Its just exciting having someone who is just so reliable and such a great runner.

Edit - quick search brought up this
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_9224506,00.html

lostinwales wrote:Its neither here nor there but The Independent has said that Hansen thinks that Brown is currently the best FB.

It doesnt matter who is the best seeing as its teams that tend to win things rather than players. Its just exciting having someone who is just so reliable and such a great runner.

Edit - quick search brought up this
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_9224506,00.html

Don't tell GE! ...actually do, please do tell GE   

lostinwales wrote:Its neither here nor there but The Independent has said that Hansen thinks that Brown is currently the best FB.

It doesnt matter who is the best seeing as its teams that tend to win things rather than players. Its just exciting having someone who is just so reliable and such a great runner.

Edit - quick search brought up this
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_9224506,00.html

Hansen is toying with England already!   

Brown is probably the form FB in world rugby right now, I doubt many who watch plenty of rugby would disagree.

This will probably change as the Super season gets into full flow. Dagg and the Crusaders are historically slow starters and it's been no different this season, Dagg has looked pretty average so far.

Kearney in the air, kicking and fielding. Brown everywhere else.

Scratch wrote:Brown has had a good season, no one is arguing with that, but he is nowhere near as good as Dulin for natural talent and Halfpenny for defense. Any rating of the 6 Nations fullbacks omitting halfpenny is clearly a deliberate and fundamental misunderstanding of what makes a great fb.

Kearney
Dulin
Halfpenny
Brown
Hogg

Maybe on "talent" (though I'd say well wrong). Absolutely miles and miles off on form


Just to add Hansen said "one of the best" not "the best" in his article

Folau pressing for form FB in the world.

butterfingers wrote:It's a difficult comparison between 2 very different players who have had 2 very different careers at both club and int level.

Do you take honours won?

Kearney - 2/3 HC's / Rabo's, GS, 6N, Lions selection, Test selection, IRFU player of year 2009?

Brown - AP x2? Triple Crown, 6N?, 6N player OTT 2014.

1 is far more impressive (I know both are not 100% accurate)

Or do you take current form? If so do you factor attacking abilities, defencive abilities, international attacking styles to involve or not involve them?

There are a hundred different ways to compare, and noone will ever agree.

For me right now, both are playing 2nd fiddle to at least Folau, AND Dagg, does either attack with as much pace as Hogg? no. Does either effect matches as much as Halfpenny does? no.

I would probably use the acid test of who would drop their player for the others, England would never drop Brown for Kearney, but neither would Ireland drop Kearney for Brown.

Kearney has the better boot by a mile, and is probably better defencively and more rounded, Brown counters better, gets involved more, and has better vision, if I were to pick one...

I wouldn't!

Well, in terms of winning games, Brown won us the game against Australia and Schmidt stated he was the difference between England and Ireland. Attacking the line with pace is not a mark of a better FB. And Dagg is playing poorly at the moment. Folau certainly up there on form, though he's not played any int rugby or looked good against any good Super 15 sides this year. Same as last year until his defensive abilities and usefulness against a genuinely good defence were shown up

Halfpenny adds little from the FB position bar being solid and having an outstanding boot. If you take away his goal kicking he wouldn't make it into a NH top 5 imo.

I'd certainly have Brown, Kearney, Hogg, Dulin and probably Foden ahead of Halfpenny who I don't really rate.

I'd agree on Folau CJ, hasn't he been playing more on the wing this season ?

One of the best, if not the best (on form). I'd have to agree. Still a big question how long he can keep this run going but he's now getting a lot of support and suddenly the opposition are having to keep an eye on quite a few England players. All bodes well for the future, even with the hardest tour coming up.

I think if you looked back to the AI then most would agree Brown is right up there form wise, only a Wum would suggest he isn't in the NH at least.

Some might even call him an English legend   

Well Geech already has but what would he know? Interestingly he's also coached Kearney

This still going on?

They're both happy.

Brown has his deserved Player of the Tournament.
Kearney has his deserved Winner's medal

Onwards to the HEC, where the play-off stages should finally decide which of them is that lttle bit 'best'

It's very easy to compare someone who's had a long international career with someone who's in his first run in his favoured position and "prove" that the former is better.

Look! Jonny Wilkinson is the best fly half the NH has ever produced. He's won a world cup and a grand slam and been to another world cup final and has the points scoring record and everything. He MUST be MUCH better than Sexton.

Truth is, Sexton is probably a more complete player than Wilkinson. But you can't make a reasonable comparison at this point in his career.

By the same token, all you can say about Brown at this point is that he had a better tournament than Kearney or Halfpenny or Dulin or Hogg. Those of us that have watched him for years think there's a good chance that he'll continue in that vein; it's also not likely that teams will be able to counter him tactically except by not kicking to him - it's not as if he's got some trick that people can work out.

By the way, I've not seen much of Kearney's kicking but given that Brown regularly gets the ball from 22 to 22 it must be something really special. Funny I've not noticed it, really.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I think if you looked back to the AI then most would agree Brown is right up there form wise, only a Wum would suggest he isn't in the NH at least.

Some might even call him an English legend   

You're at it again I see even after being warned by the Mods.

Brown is a legend already!

What a great player, to come back from the international scrapeheap and perform like he has done is a truely great story, would make a great film.   

Scrumpy wrote:Brown is a legend already!

What a great player, to come back from the international scrapeheap and perform like he has done is a truely great story, would make a great film.   

Yes he is according to the fans and press, been there and done it without winning a 6 Nations or going anywhere near a RWC or Lions tour….hope his 2nd season lives up to the massive hype that has been placed on his shoulders

To be fair to brown though...he's been playing to this level for years now...he's not just a one season wonder....

Brown has been doing this for Quins for ages, any rugby fan would know that if you have a genuine interest in the game as its been talked about for some time.   

GeordieFalcon wrote:To be fair to brown though...he's been playing to this level for years now...he's not just a one season wonder....

This is his first international season of note, when did he debut was it 2007 or 2008?   

Playing for Quins has been his highest achievement until now.