Fury: "I'll Never Fight 'Pretender' Haye"

First topic message reminder :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/34959206

Interesting quote from Haye:

Haye told BBC Sport on Sunday: "Tyson Fury is the number one in the division now. Mark de Mori is ranked number 10, I need to work my way up to two, to number one contender, to get to Tyson Fury."

Di Mori isn't even ranked in the top 100!

Incidentally, has anyone seen pictures of Haye recently? Is he the most jacked heavyweight in history?

If Haye makes it to mandatory I reckon he'll have a hold over Fury mentally with his previous experience of not showing up. I'd think Fury may always have that in the back of his mind when training for the fight.

That said Fury impressed on Saturday so I'd give him all hope of beating Haye. Styles make fights though and, as has been said, Haye holds speed and power over Fury and could catch him. Anyone with power is dangerous for Tyson.

In relation to Wilder, he said that Wlad was first and Wilder would have to get in line. Then made some remarks about him being a basketball player. No ducking there.

rob-glos wrote:Yes.

A better one.

Styles make fights..........Cunningham is a different fighter to Wlad......

rob-glos wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

smashingstormcrow wrote:

Cunningham should have beaten Fury.........Haye is much better and powerful than Cunningham.....

I'd pick a half decent Haye to win.......If he potshots for twelve rounds he's bound to land eventually.

Wlad is also better and more powerful than Cunningham.
He lost.

Haye struggled to get anywhere near Valuev and potshotted for twelve rounds against Wlad without landing at any point.

Before Saturday I would have picked Haye to beat Fury, not so sure now.

Did you actually watch that fight? Valuev chased after Haye who landed a shot on his noggin in the third and broke his hand. Valuev tried to force Haye back into a corner on a number of occasions and Haye was able to slip out with ease but unable/unwilling to throw what would have been the easiest of shots. Haye only decided to unload in the final rounds (when he had his man wobbled). Plenty of people moaning that Haye didn't KO him when no-one else had been able to do it either (including Holyfield who was willing to stand and trade due to his superior chin).

Still think Haye's a better fighter than Fury and I don't see Haye having any fear of the big lump. He's been dropped by lesser fighters than Haye and, again as mentioned above, you dangle £10million in front of Fury for one fight with Haye as opposed to having to have four less lucrative fights, Fury's "principles" will go right out of the window.

Agree that Haye's made a rod for his own back over the years but even Fat Mick couldn't be stupid enough to turn down a piece of that delicious money pie, could he?

Yes Dave, I did watch it.

I was pretty surprised Haye got the decision as were a lot of people.
My point is that Haye found it very difficult to get close enough to let his hands go, regardless of his injured right.

Fury has the same large reach and height advantage.

Don't get me wrong, I really like Haye as a fighter I just think he's been out of the ring too long.
He's now so heavily muscled (maybe to protect his shoulder) that his already suspect stamina won't hold out for more than 6-7 rounds.

Just so I'm clear here. Are we talking about Mike Tyson or David Haye??

rob-glos wrote:Yes Dave, I did watch it.

I was pretty surprised Haye got the decision as were a lot of people.
My point is that Haye found it very difficult to get close enough to let his hands go, regardless of his injured right.

Fury has the same large reach and height advantage.

Don't get me wrong, I really like Haye as a fighter I just think he's been out of the ring too long.
He's now so heavily muscled (maybe to protect his shoulder) that his already suspect stamina won't hold out for more than 6-7 rounds.

Why were you surprised, Valuev couldn't tag haye. What little did land in the, came from Haye. Not pretty by any means but got the job done, much like Fury on Saturday night. Would also suggest that if Haye can do 12 rounds, which he did against both Valuev and Wlad, they why can't he do 12 against Fury? Fury is hardly Manny when it comes to work rate and also not the best conditioned athlete we've even seen. Wonder what Fury's tank will be like when he's done a few rounds hitting nothing but fresh air.

rob-glos wrote:Yes Dave, I did watch it.

I was pretty surprised Haye got the decision as were a lot of people.
My point is that Haye found it very difficult to get close enough to let his hands go, regardless of his injured right.

Fury has the same large reach and height advantage.

Don't get me wrong, I really like Haye as a fighter I just think he's been out of the ring too long.
He's now so heavily muscled (maybe to protect his shoulder) that his already suspect stamina won't hold out for more than 6-7 rounds.

I thought it was pretty clear cut. How do you hand it to a guy punching thin air all night?? They stopped showing the compubox stats from halfway as it showed something like Valuev throwing 50-60 punches and connecting 3. Haye at least connected a few times per round, and was never touched or in trouble, and landed the punch of the fight almost toppling the giant freak late on.

I was drunk when Haye fought Valuev and there was no way I was going to watch it again. However I do remember thinking Valuev shouldn't get a decision, by trying to pin Haye down and missing all night.

The Valuev fight was an MD for Haye.
Neither fighter landed anything significant (barring Valuev getting hurt in the last round).

The surprise was Haye getting the decision in Germany when it wasn't a hugely decisive win.

Haye's stamina has always been in question since the wheels came off against Thompson.

He was blowing out of his arse against Chisora when he had to fight at any sort of tempo.

With all the extra muscle he has on him now that won't improve his stamina.

Is Fury likely to make Haye work at a high tempo?

I reckon he'll have to fight at a high tempo or lose in very similar circumstances to the Wlad fight.

And again.... Much more muscle to carry about.

Wlad kept the pressure on all night....

Fury can't do that...

rob-glos wrote:The Valuev fight was an MD for Haye.
Neither fighter landed anything significant (barring Valuev getting hurt in the last round).

The surprise was Haye getting the decision in Germany when it wasn't a hugely decisive win.

You've answered your own question there, Rob, as it was only awarded an MD because it was in Germany. Was clear 3-4 round win to Haye for me. Impossible to make a case for Valuev.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Wlad kept the pressure on all night....

Fury can't do that...

I didn't think Fury could box like he did on Saturday!

Fury won't be boxing Haye..........He'll have to go find him and avoid the potshots..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Wlad kept the pressure on all night....

Fury can't do that...

If Fury shows the ability to put his next few opponents under this type of pressure, I'm willing to concede that a Haye fight may not be as one sided as I previously thought. However, given the fight on Saturday was something of an anomaly as far as Fury is concerned, I'd say the jury is still out.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

rob-glos wrote:The Valuev fight was an MD for Haye.
Neither fighter landed anything significant (barring Valuev getting hurt in the last round).

The surprise was Haye getting the decision in Germany when it wasn't a hugely decisive win.

You've answered your own question there, Rob, as it was only awarded an MD because it was in Germany.  Was clear 3-4 round win to Haye for me. Impossible to make a case for Valuev.

Dug out the compubox numbers

Haye vs Valuev

Landed/Thrown/Pct.

Haye 98/143/68.5%

Valuev 64/390/16%


He may have landed more but throwing 12 punches a round is a joke.

Anyone seriously think he can throw 12 punches a round and win against Fury?

Mate you don't seem to grasp the fact that different fighters make you fight different ways..

12 punches a round was enough to beat Valuev....

I do Truss.
Really.

My point is that Haye isn't really a force at Heavyweight like he was at Cruiser and every time he's fought a significantly bigger man he's looked average at best.

Against fighters of a similar size he's looked dangerous.

You could be right mate........

Haye is just vile, nasty and dismissive leading into fights.  Fury can be nasty but offsets it with a comedic / expressive / zany side to his character.  He was a lot more respectful to Wladimir than Haye ever was but spoke confidently and with toughness.

I am not sure that Fury has every pulled out of or delayed a fight - but he has had others do that on him.  He was willing and prepared to fight Haye - but Haye delayed and then retired.  I can totally understand Fury not giving Haye an opportunity now to fight him because whenever Haye fights it becomes all about Haye in the leadup. Haye had his chance.

rob-glos wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

rob-glos wrote:The Valuev fight was an MD for Haye.
Neither fighter landed anything significant (barring Valuev getting hurt in the last round).

The surprise was Haye getting the decision in Germany when it wasn't a hugely decisive win.

You've answered your own question there, Rob, as it was only awarded an MD because it was in Germany.  Was clear 3-4 round win to Haye for me. Impossible to make a case for Valuev.

Dug out the compubox numbers

Haye vs Valuev

Landed/Thrown/Pct.

Haye 98/143/68.5%

Valuev 64/390/16%


He may have landed more but throwing 12 punches a round is a joke.

Anyone seriously think he can throw 12 punches a round and win against Fury?

Thanks, never was able to find them again myself. But to answer your points:

1. What's a joke is suggesting someone connecting with only 16% of punches and never once hurting his opponent is deserving of a win!!
2. And yes, if one of those punches is the same he hit Valuev with in the 10th. Valuev was pants but he had good whiskers. Fury's recovery is great but he's never taken a shot like that, very different to getting up from a Cunningham cuff. Though in principal I would agree low work-rate probably isn't enough to beat Fury on points.

Hard to see how Haye would win on points. Fury boxing a disclined fight could just stick him on the end jab and bank the rounds. I made Fury a favourite to beat Haye even before the Klitschko fight and with Hayes lack of activity and Fury showing he can box disciplined for 12 rounds then I think Fury starts as a warm favourite. Hope he leaves Haye out to dry though. The guy is a waste of time.

Very, very impressed with Fury. But no doubt about it his stamina was way more impressive than previous bouts, evident not only in work rate but in maintaining good concentration throughout.
My concern is that when preparing for his next bout, whether that's Haye, wlad or a gimme, is that he won't train at the same intensity of that as a challenger.
But just like I was proved wrong on Saturday night, I hope to proved wrong once more.
Haye relied on his quickness and athleticism, which I feel will now be compromised. Not just because of his time out and the extra weight, but his age. He always used to talk about the plodders of the HW division. Should have stayed focused and carried on whilst the iron was hot.

I wouldn't give Haye the payday either if I was Fury. Fury got done over twice by Haye but saying that I would if the money was heavily in my favour.

I wouldn't give Haye the payday either if I was Fury. Fury got done over twice by Haye but saying that I would if the money was heavily in my favour.

I really like Haye and I'm glad he's back. Fury has also impressed me and I give him full credit for what he has achieved.

Ive done a 180 on Haye v Fury now as I'd say it's now Furys to lose. I used to think Fury was garanteed to make mistakes and it was a matter of time before Haye capitalised and knocked him out. However, if Fury trains right and focuses throughout he makes Haye search for openings all night whilst circling out of range. That's a bad night for Haye. I still think it's hugely competitive as Haye has good, quick movement so he'll slip a lot of what's thrown, provided he hasn't slipped himself, but he'll struggle to get his own shots landed too.

Fury UD based on Saturday and the Chisora shoeing... although I acknowledge Haye is/was far harder to find in the ring than either Chis or Wlad when he needs to be.

We none of us know how three years out will affect Haye......35 too..

Fury left lots of openings but Wlad felt he couldn't find the perfect range. The openings were there to be taken but Wlad WILL NOT throw the right hand if the jab doesn't land (silly really, especially late on when your losing). Haye, however, does not give a monkeys about leaping in and throwing a wild Hayemaker. He also doesn't care if he misses with a bomb. Something will land. I think Haye wins (and a few others too).

..but I'm going to keep quiet from now on because I'm sick and tired of writing Fury off, only to be proved wrong.

3fingers wrote:Fury left lots of openings but Wlad felt he couldn't find the perfect range. The openings were there to be taken but Wlad WILL NOT throw the right hand if the jab doesn't land (silly really, especially late on when your losing). Haye, however, does not give a monkeys about leaping in and throwing a wild Hayemaker. He also doesn't care if he misses with a bomb. Something will land. I think Haye wins (and a few others too).

..but I'm going to keep quiet from now on because I'm sick and tired of writing Fury off, only to be proved wrong.

Fury has the skills to do what Klitschko did to Haye

Fury doesn't owe Haye anything, he pulled out twice.

Aye, Fury could quite easily follow Wlad's blueprint for beating Haye- he's got the same height/ reach advantage, maybe not power, but should be able to keep Haye at enough of a distance just using the jab... He showed against Wlad he can stick to a game plan, and I would have thought he'll manage that against Haye.

The sport no longer needs Haye. Tyson Fury has moved the sport on with the dethroning of the eleven year reign of Wladimir Klitchsko. Now everyone wants to fight Fury. Deontay Wilder wants to fight Fury. Wladimir wants to fight Fury (rematch). Anthony Joshua wants to fight Fury in four fights time (for him). Eastern European boxers want to fight Fury. US boxers want to fight Fury. European boxers want to fight Fury. Southern Hemisphere boxers want to fight Fury.

Boxing is about levels. Fury is a level above Haye. His movement for a big man is superb.

All he really lacks is power, but I'm pretty sure he would KO anyone around 6ft 2/3. Haye doesn't stand a chance, he would lose by a wide margin on points or suffer the same fate as Chisora II.

I wonder when Shannon Briggs is going to show up outside Fury's caravan.

Fury's team were going to pull him out of the fight after they found Klitschko's team had underlain the canvass with an additional three inches of soft packing form. This would have slowed the action right down and tire out the legs of the one doing most of the moving. I wonder how many of Klitschko's opponents were defeated by these additional fixing of the conditions to benefit Wladimir:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/34955951

Nore Staat wrote:The sport no longer needs Haye.  Tyson Fury has moved the sport on with the dethroning of the eleven year reign of Wladimir Klitchsko.  Now everyone wants to fight Fury.  Deontay Wilder wants to fight Fury.  Wladimir wants to fight Fury (rematch).  Anthony Joshua wants to fight Fury in four fights time (for him).  Eastern European boxers want to fight Fury.  US boxers want to fight Fury.  European boxers want to fight Fury.  Southern Hemisphere boxers want to fight Fury.

Yet Fury (already calling himself "The Man") doesn't seem to want to fight anyone. Deontay Wilder holds the WBC title and, let's face it, is really nothing special. If Fury is as good as he now seems to think he is, a fight with Wilder should hold no fear for him yet he's dismissed before he finished singing to his wife. He stated ages ago that he'd beat Haye and yet when this older, slower, supposedly still rubbish version of Haye comes a knocking (pretty much guaranteeing Fury a purse in the region of £5million+) he doesn't want to know. £5million for an easy night's work and you say "No"?

Anthony Joshua? Still basically a novice and not even proven European level yet let all fringe World level...oh yeah, everyone wants to see that...everyone, it seems, except Fury.

So who exactly is it that Fury is willing to put his belts on the line against...Marty Rogan?

What's perhaps more galling is the eye gouger now riding on the coat tails of his son. He was all ready to let his son fight Haye when it meant a day out of prison for the thug but now he's calling the shots.

Think this family may make the Hamed's looks like savvy businessmen. Fat Mick already looks like the most sensible one in the group.

DAVE667 wrote:What's perhaps more galling is the eye gouger now riding on the coat tails of his son. He was all ready to let his son fight Haye when it meant a day out of prison for the thug but now he's calling the shots.

Think this family may make the Hamed's looks like savvy businessmen.

Savvy enough to pick their moment to catch a willing Klitty and take the biggest prize in sports...

Savvy enough to insist on canvas changes to suit their son or they wouldn't fight.....

They aren't as stupuid as they look.....and If Dad wants to look out for his son then good luck to him....

You keep sticking up for a guy in Haye who has p**sed on the fans plenty of times............How many fans travelled to Germany for Klit just for him to say he wasn't fit !!!........How many were left out of pocket for Haye-Fury 1 ???????? Sparring a week before the fight apparently..

All Time Great wrote:Boxing is about levels. Fury is a level above Haye. His movement for a big man is superb.

All he really lacks is power, but I'm pretty sure he would KO anyone around 6ft 2/3. Haye doesn't stand a chance, he would lose by a wide margin on points or suffer the same fate as Chisora II.

Really? Fury is a level above Haye? Based on what? The guy doesn't have good movement for a big man or otherwise, his footwork is poor and he looks unbalanced. He may move fairly quickly for a guy of his size but that doesn't equate to superb movement.

He lacks power but you think he'll ko any fighter around Hayes height, what does height have to do with it?

Seems like many are jumping on the Fury bandwagon here, the second coming of Ali. More like the second coming of the ambling alp.

All due respect to Fury, he did what most of us thought he couldn't, came away with the win but lets not get carried away here. Is he in anybodies p4p top ten?

Is Haye???

Derbymanc wrote:Is Haye???

Would you be kind enough to point out where I or anybody else has said Haye is in their p4p top 10?

f..k it I am not fence sitting.

I do not think they will fight, but if they do, Fury will win.

Haye would probably go away "injured" again. Haye is a great little guy with nice power, but Fury will not treat him the way he treated Cunningham.

The question I will ask is, if/when Fury sends Haye into permanent retirement, will he get the respect?? Or will everyone just say he only won because Haye was inactive and only chasing the money.

DAVE667 wrote:

Nore Staat wrote:The sport no longer needs Haye.  Tyson Fury has moved the sport on with the dethroning of the eleven year reign of Wladimir Klitchsko.  Now everyone wants to fight Fury.  Deontay Wilder wants to fight Fury.  Wladimir wants to fight Fury (rematch).  Anthony Joshua wants to fight Fury in four fights time (for him).  Eastern European boxers want to fight Fury.  US boxers want to fight Fury.  European boxers want to fight Fury.  Southern Hemisphere boxers want to fight Fury.

Yet Fury (already calling himself "The Man") doesn't seem to want to fight anyone. Deontay Wilder holds the WBC title and, let's face it, is really nothing special. If Fury is as good as he now seems to think he is, a fight with Wilder should hold no fear for him yet he's dismissed before he finished singing to his wife. He stated ages ago that he'd beat Haye and yet when this older, slower, supposedly still rubbish version of Haye comes a knocking (pretty much guaranteeing Fury a purse in the region of £5million+) he doesn't want to know. £5million for an easy night's work and you say "No"?

Anthony Joshua? Still basically a novice and not even proven European level yet let all fringe World level...oh yeah, everyone wants to see that...everyone, it seems, except Fury.

So who exactly is it that Fury is willing to put his belts on the line against...Marty Rogan?

Fury can call himself the man because he is the man.

Fury has stated he wants the Wlad rematch. Wlad is #2 at HW and the biggest fight out there for Fury still.

It's not 2010. Haye really isn't a big draw anymore. Let's face it, his HW reign was embarrassing. Now he's the 3rd most important British HW if that.

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

Nore Staat wrote:The sport no longer needs Haye.  Tyson Fury has moved the sport on with the dethroning of the eleven year reign of Wladimir Klitchsko.  Now everyone wants to fight Fury.  Deontay Wilder wants to fight Fury.  Wladimir wants to fight Fury (rematch).  Anthony Joshua wants to fight Fury in four fights time (for him).  Eastern European boxers want to fight Fury.  US boxers want to fight Fury.  European boxers want to fight Fury.  Southern Hemisphere boxers want to fight Fury.

Yet Fury (already calling himself "The Man") doesn't seem to want to fight anyone. Deontay Wilder holds the WBC title and, let's face it, is really nothing special. If Fury is as good as he now seems to think he is, a fight with Wilder should hold no fear for him yet he's dismissed before he finished singing to his wife. He stated ages ago that he'd beat Haye and yet when this older, slower, supposedly still rubbish version of Haye comes a knocking (pretty much guaranteeing Fury a purse in the region of £5million+) he doesn't want to know. £5million for an easy night's work and you say "No"?

Anthony Joshua? Still basically a novice and not even proven European level yet let all fringe World level...oh yeah, everyone wants to see that...everyone, it seems, except Fury.

So who exactly is it that Fury is willing to put his belts on the line against...Marty Rogan?

Fury can call himself the man because he is the man.

Fury has stated he wants the Wlad rematch. Wlad is #2 at HW and the biggest fight out there for Fury still.

It's not 2010. Haye really isn't a big draw anymore. Let's face it, his HW reign was embarrassing. Now he's the 3rd most important British HW if that.

Good post, no matter what people think of his ability, he is THE man. Something Haye did at cruiser, but has never quite managed at Heavyweight.

Love Fury or hate him you can't deny, he is the man until somebody beats him. It might be soon, but until it happens, he deserves the respect of an undisputed champion.

SOHONOT - just stop posting mate.

I watched the fight again last night, no sound at all for the full 12 rounds and it looked even more comprehensive the second time around.

Fury's movement and speed was SUPERB. Bobbing, weaving, slipping punches, circling the lot. I can't be doing with reading absolute garbage on here anymore.

He made the heavweight champion of the world look ordinary on Saturday. If a neutral watched that with no knowledge of boxing whatsoever they would have thought Fury was the one with all the belts. Another thing he isnt getting credit for either is that he was actually the AGGRESSOR in the fight as well. He through a wider variety of punches than Wlad and anytime Fury actually tried to land clean hurtful shots Wlad went into a shell of almost Audleyesque proportions.

Fury does himself no favours in terms of looking good because he throws too many punches when he's off balance and he doesn't always rotate from the hips to generate full power, somwething they need to work on.

Saying things such as 'More like the second coming of the ambling alp' makes you look clueless.

Bit harsh mate. Sohotnot is a very good poster imo. I don't agree with him on Haye/Fury, but he puts up good arguments in his posts and I enjoy debating with him.

Thats fine Adam. I don't enjoy reading dross though.

Not a dig at you mate, everyone is entitled to there opinions.

If you don't enjoy it, you don't enjoy it.

I would just like to see Fury get his respect. Even if one does not like his style, you can't deny his heart and confidence.

He really is a fighting man and if the day comes when he is overmatched, I believe he will definitely go out on his shield. He is certainly not a coward, as some are labelling him.

He didn't pull out twice, or run for Wlad for 12 rounds and blame a big toe.

Even if Haye was a better boxer, he isn't half the man for me as Fury. He hasn't the courage or the self belief.

I share your thoughts Adam which is why Sohonots comments annoyed me.

Debate I don't mind but flippant comments with no basis in fact rub me up the wrong way.

The Heavyweight champion of the world clearly has more to him than being 'the second coming of the ambling alp', pretty sure about that.

Haye is a blown up Cruiserweight and absolute joke of a heavyweight champ. The only decent guy he fought at heavy was Wlad and he was shut out and made to look ordinary. Fury made Wlad look pretty ordinary on Saturday.

So anybody that thinks David Haye is walking into an easy nights work against Fury after a three year lay off is deluded.

If Fury maintains his energy and movement whilst working on landing heavier, technically better shots then he makes easy work of Haye.

Anyone that thinks a man of Furies size doesnt posses KO power needs to rethink it. Furies problem with punching power is all down to technique