Eng in India
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Cricket
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Eng in India
First topic message reminder :
Nov 09, Wed - Nov 13, Sun
India vs England, 1st Test
Saurashtra Cricket Association Stadium, Rajkot
Nov 17, Thu - Nov 21, Mon
India vs England, 2nd Test
Dr. Y.S. Rajasekhara Reddy ACA-VDCA Cricket Stadium, Visakhapatnam
Nov 26, Sat - Nov 30, Wed
India vs England, 3rd Test
Punjab Cricket Association Stadium, Mohali
Dec 08, Thu - Dec 12, Mon
India vs England, 4th Test
Wankhede Stadium, Mumbai
Dec 16, Fri - Dec 20, Tue
India vs England, 5th Test
MA Chidambaram Stadium, Chennai
Jan 15, Sun
India vs England, 1st ODI
Maharashtra Cricket Association Stadium, Pune
Jan 19, Thu
India vs England, 2nd ODI
Barabati Stadium, Cuttack
Jan 22, Sun
India vs England, 3rd ODI
Eden Gardens, Kolkata
Jan 26, Thu
India vs England, 1st T20I
Green Park, Kanpur
Jan 29, Sun
India vs England, 2nd T20I
Vidarbha Cricket Association Ground, Nagpur
Feb 01, Wed
India vs England, 3rd T20I
M.Chinnaswamy Stadium, Bengaluru
England tour of India, 2016-17
Nov 09, Wed - Nov 13, Sun
India vs England, 1st Test
Saurashtra Cricket Association Stadium, Rajkot
Nov 17, Thu - Nov 21, Mon
India vs England, 2nd Test
Dr. Y.S. Rajasekhara Reddy ACA-VDCA Cricket Stadium, Visakhapatnam
Nov 26, Sat - Nov 30, Wed
India vs England, 3rd Test
Punjab Cricket Association Stadium, Mohali
Dec 08, Thu - Dec 12, Mon
India vs England, 4th Test
Wankhede Stadium, Mumbai
Dec 16, Fri - Dec 20, Tue
India vs England, 5th Test
MA Chidambaram Stadium, Chennai
Jan 15, Sun
India vs England, 1st ODI
Maharashtra Cricket Association Stadium, Pune
Jan 19, Thu
India vs England, 2nd ODI
Barabati Stadium, Cuttack
Jan 22, Sun
India vs England, 3rd ODI
Eden Gardens, Kolkata
Jan 26, Thu
India vs England, 1st T20I
Green Park, Kanpur
Jan 29, Sun
India vs England, 2nd T20I
Vidarbha Cricket Association Ground, Nagpur
Feb 01, Wed
India vs England, 3rd T20I
M.Chinnaswamy Stadium, Bengaluru
Last edited by KP_fan on Tue 01 Nov 2016, 4:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
KP_fan- Posts : 10098
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Eng in India
Guildford, the thing is that India, within the last 3 years, have let James Anderson score 81 at number 11. They let Brendon McCullum score a triple ton from a team position of somethinglike 5-90. Roston Chase and Jason Holder of West Indies held them off for nearly 2 sessions. On a spinning track in Sri Lanka, they let slip a lead of nearly 200 to lose a game.
England on the other hand, have made it a habit to lose their first 5 under 150 on a very regular basis, many times under 100, sometimes under even 50, yet have bounced back in most such situations. Even in the Bangladesh series that was a particular low point for their batting lineup, Rashid and Woakes did a significant damage control act at 8 down.
England on the other hand, have made it a habit to lose their first 5 under 150 on a very regular basis, many times under 100, sometimes under even 50, yet have bounced back in most such situations. Even in the Bangladesh series that was a particular low point for their batting lineup, Rashid and Woakes did a significant damage control act at 8 down.
msp83- Posts : 16069
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Re: Eng in India
Ashwin strikes with the newish ball as he gets Stokes LBW! Interesting call there, the 3rd umpire taking an age to take a call. Stokes was out either way, even if he had edged it, he was anyways caught at the wicket. Eventually he's given LBW, Ashwin with his 3rd.......
msp83- Posts : 16069
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Re: Eng in India
LivinginItaly wrote:We will almost certainly still lose this game sometime tomorrow. But at least we are putting up a fight. Stokes is proving that he can be considered a genuine test number 6 that has the ability to play according to the match situation. Next mile stone is to avoid the follow on, even if India will not enforce it.
Yes, there just seems too much time left for England to save this game. From England's perspective, the previous Test was one day too short whilst this Test is one day too long.
guildfordbat- Posts : 16610
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Re: Eng in India
msp83 wrote:Guildford, the thing is that India, within the last 3 years, have let James Anderson score 81 at number 11. They let Brendon McCullum score a triple ton from a team position of somethinglike 5-90. Roston Chase and Jason Holder of West Indies held them off for nearly 2 sessions. On a spinning track in Sri Lanka, they let slip a lead of nearly 200 to lose a game.
England on the other hand, have made it a habit to lose their first 5 under 150 on a very regular basis, many times under 100, sometimes under even 50, yet have bounced back in most such situations. Even in the Bangladesh series that was a particular low point for their batting lineup, Rashid and Woakes did a significant damage control act at 8 down.
Msp - all noted although I would guess you still wouldn't want India to swap places with England now.
guildfordbat- Posts : 16610
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Re: Eng in India
Decent footwork from Ansari so far in his short stay.
msp83- Posts : 16069
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Re: Eng in India
Before Botham talks on commentary, Sky should give a blood pressure warning.
guildfordbat- Posts : 16610
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Re: Eng in India
he affected an excellent R.O......and pitch has been keeping low.msp83 wrote:Wriddhiman Saha is back to his Pre-West Indies version, missing at least a chance per innings, and not much contributing with the bat either. Seemed he turned the corner in the West Indies, and then against New Zealand when he had a very good series with gloves and bat. But he hasn't been safe behind the stumps this series, missed Stokes 3 times in the series already, and hasn't made major contributions with the bat either.
we can't be judging him every two tests.....lets wait the full series.
btw Jayant Yadav---> Kohli has treated him like a part timer.....hasn't shown that he believes Jayant can run throuhg sides.
KP_fan- Posts : 10098
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Re: Eng in India
KP_fan wrote:have looked at the pitch now with Indian spinners bowling on it ...my prognosis.....Eng will hand India a lead of 200 most likely and 150 in worst case ( if stokes plays a dashin inning)....
then India will set a target 450 in 5 sessions
the ptich is not impossibly bad (yet) it might become from end of D4....
compared to Rajkot it's slower and lower bounce...means scoring runs is not easy....pressure builds up more and doubt of an LBW greater in the mind
that was what i thought more than 24 hours back...and so far the game it going per the script....
the pitch is not bad at all...no where close to the spin and bounce that we had against NZ and SA...batting second Eng could not do what India did in Rajkot......bat 160 overs and score close to 400.
Following on did not make sense.....pitch is still not at its worst...and plenty of time in the game....so bat on, until lunch time tomm...that's 65 overs in total.....India has to aim for 250 runs on those 65 overs
KP_fan- Posts : 10098
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Re: Eng in India
but the way Indians have started.....they may not have the option to declare...they may be bowled out.
Eng seamers have looked more likely to take wickets all the way through this test
Eng seamers have looked more likely to take wickets all the way through this test
KP_fan- Posts : 10098
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Re: Eng in India
India may be feeling more adventurous this innings, knowing they only need 250-odd to set England a target of 450.
Pitiful capitulation by England's top order (yet again) has lost us this match. But what else can you expect when your top 5 consists of 2 newbies and an all-rounder (who to be fair has been in decent form with the bat lately).
I keep saying we can't expect Stokes, Bairstow and the rest of the middle-lower order to bail us out and this time the task was overwhelming.
Until we get a solid 2, 4 and 5 we can look forward to more of the same. For all his ability, I think its asking a bit much of Moeen to bat a 5, as he just doesn't have the kind of consistency you need higher up the order (especially if he has to face the new ball early on).
Pitiful capitulation by England's top order (yet again) has lost us this match. But what else can you expect when your top 5 consists of 2 newbies and an all-rounder (who to be fair has been in decent form with the bat lately).
I keep saying we can't expect Stokes, Bairstow and the rest of the middle-lower order to bail us out and this time the task was overwhelming.
Until we get a solid 2, 4 and 5 we can look forward to more of the same. For all his ability, I think its asking a bit much of Moeen to bat a 5, as he just doesn't have the kind of consistency you need higher up the order (especially if he has to face the new ball early on).
dyrewolfe- Posts : 6974
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Re: Eng in India
India is too casual.....and someone needs to talk to rahul.....he is exuding overconfidence at being declared first choice.....
I had observed in trying to seal a spot in ODI and T2o side...he has been losing his greatest asset.....ability to leave ball outside the off and build an inning.....
the coach needs to talk seriously to him....
rahane needs to deliver this time....no less than a 100.....although pitch is becoming increasingly variable
I had observed in trying to seal a spot in ODI and T2o side...he has been losing his greatest asset.....ability to leave ball outside the off and build an inning.....
the coach needs to talk seriously to him....
rahane needs to deliver this time....no less than a 100.....although pitch is becoming increasingly variable
KP_fan- Posts : 10098
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Re: Eng in India
KP_fan wrote:India is too casual.....and someone needs to talk to rahul.....he is exuding overconfidence at being declared first choice.....
I had observed in trying to seal a spot in ODI and T2o side...he has been losing his greatest asset.....ability to leave ball outside the off and build an inning.....
the coach needs to talk seriously to him....
rahane needs to deliver this time....no less than a 100.....although pitch is becoming increasingly variable
I quite like Rahane. He's out of nick but battling away and seems determined not to chuck his wicket away. Feel your ''no less than a 100'' is setting the bar extremely high this dig.
guildfordbat- Posts : 16610
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Re: Eng in India
The issues of work and cricket prevented me from seeing even one ball of England's innings ... But it seems to me that they may have been conned by all the talk of a spinning pitch : doesn't seem to have been turning square at all ...very slow , perhaps requiring patience - but they really made a mess of their reply in being bowled out for 255.
Even now the pitch seems OK (at least for the excellent Kohli !) and the English spinners just don't look at all dangerous.
Can't say I'm shocked : I fear England generally struggle replying to big scores , especially if Cook goes early. But I am disappointed . Stokes and Bairstow.(yet again) and even Rashid did well . But 255 seems well under par...and has surely cost them this game
Even now the pitch seems OK (at least for the excellent Kohli !) and the English spinners just don't look at all dangerous.
Can't say I'm shocked : I fear England generally struggle replying to big scores , especially if Cook goes early. But I am disappointed . Stokes and Bairstow.(yet again) and even Rashid did well . But 255 seems well under par...and has surely cost them this game
alfie- Posts : 20896
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Re: Eng in India
Rahane has never been out of nick for a full series.....gets a hundred in every series , doesn't average less than mid 40s in any series......and when he fails 3 innings in a row.....a hundred is due of him.....
very difficult pitch to score runs, may not even have enough time before declaration to get a 100......so revised target for rahane....go not out
the pitch itself is no alarming because the turn is slow and balls are not jumping off a length....balls are keeping low....so that makes scoring runs difficult....
Eng will have something in the region of 425-450 to chase....and 135 over to survive.......not impossible
very difficult pitch to score runs, may not even have enough time before declaration to get a 100......so revised target for rahane....go not out
the pitch itself is no alarming because the turn is slow and balls are not jumping off a length....balls are keeping low....so that makes scoring runs difficult....
Eng will have something in the region of 425-450 to chase....and 135 over to survive.......not impossible
Last edited by KP_fan on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 11:07 am; edited 1 time in total
KP_fan- Posts : 10098
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Re: Eng in India
Hasn't Kohli played beautifully ? One stroke of luck on day one when Rashid failed to hold him at fine leg off Stokes...but otherwise impeccable. A class above everyone else in this match
alfie- Posts : 20896
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Re: Eng in India
So 98-3 at stumps for India, that's a lead of 298.......
The top order wasn't quite up to it this time, Both Vijay and Pujara failed this time, and KL Rahul took this business of replacing Gautam Gambhir far too seriously and batted like the former!, playing away from his body and edging behind for the 2nd time in the match. Is consistency becoming a little bit of an issue for Vijay now? And as the comentators have been talking about, Pujara is getting bowled or LBW far too often for a batsman of his ability. This has been an old issue, that created plenty of trouble for him overseas, but he hasn't quite worked out ways to modify his technique to deal with this serious flaw in his batting. Not really complaining as the guy has 3 50s and 3 tons in the last 5 tests! But it is better to work on your weaknesses when in form, and when the team is doing well. Otherwise the pressure can get to him rather quickly.......
The top order wasn't quite up to it this time, Both Vijay and Pujara failed this time, and KL Rahul took this business of replacing Gautam Gambhir far too seriously and batted like the former!, playing away from his body and edging behind for the 2nd time in the match. Is consistency becoming a little bit of an issue for Vijay now? And as the comentators have been talking about, Pujara is getting bowled or LBW far too often for a batsman of his ability. This has been an old issue, that created plenty of trouble for him overseas, but he hasn't quite worked out ways to modify his technique to deal with this serious flaw in his batting. Not really complaining as the guy has 3 50s and 3 tons in the last 5 tests! But it is better to work on your weaknesses when in form, and when the team is doing well. Otherwise the pressure can get to him rather quickly.......
msp83- Posts : 16069
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Re: Eng in India
Rahane hasn't been in form in this series, he hasn't quite been out of form either. He has played some terrible shots to get out really. Even today, he went back to a couple of balls whereas he should have played them coming forward. He was bowled doing something similar in the first test. But importantly for India, he weathered it all for today and can try and approach his task with renewed focus.
msp83- Posts : 16069
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Re: Eng in India
As for Kohli, one of his very best test innings at home so far. Though he's only 50 notout, it has been a splendid performance from the Indian captain. His judgment was perfect when dealing with uneven bounce, and he even managed to hit away some of the ones that hardly bounced of the pitch for 4. And right through the innings, he has been positive. It seemed Kohli batted on a different pitch really.......
msp83- Posts : 16069
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Re: Eng in India
Brilliant from Kohli as Alfie says.
England have either held their own in each session of this Test or at least kept their heads above water ... apart from that disastrous final session yesterday. That put the fox in the hen house and resulted in the slaughter of 255 all out. An inadequate total and not enough time taken out of the game to get away with a draw.
Useful half-centuries earlier today from Stokes and Bairstow. However, by then and despite msp's fears, the damage had already been done. To quote my man Stewart, ''Fifties don't win you matches.'' Well, not normally anyway.
Some lovely bowling by Broad and Anderson when India batted second dig. The three wickets they shared were much deserved but no other bowler could add to them.
I kept hearing Nasser Hussain saying Rashid's bowling was ''excellent''. I thought it was ok and better than I expected at the start of this tour (which is saying very little) but a long way short of excellence. One of the Indian commentators (?) referred to him as ''good in patches''. Thought that damning with faint praise was about right. In this match, he's gone at more than 3 an over, bowled 3 maidens in his 47 overs and has the wickets of India's numbers 9 and 10 batsmen. Hardly on a par with Ashwin's fivefer!
At least, Rashid has done better than Ansari. Apparently, the Surrey slow left armer was suffering from ''nausea'' yesterday. Even so, it's noticeable that he hasn't bowled since day one. His goose seems well and truly cooked, the word being he'll be replaced by Woakes for Test 3 (regardless of Broad's fitness which is now in doubt).
England have either held their own in each session of this Test or at least kept their heads above water ... apart from that disastrous final session yesterday. That put the fox in the hen house and resulted in the slaughter of 255 all out. An inadequate total and not enough time taken out of the game to get away with a draw.
Useful half-centuries earlier today from Stokes and Bairstow. However, by then and despite msp's fears, the damage had already been done. To quote my man Stewart, ''Fifties don't win you matches.'' Well, not normally anyway.
Some lovely bowling by Broad and Anderson when India batted second dig. The three wickets they shared were much deserved but no other bowler could add to them.
I kept hearing Nasser Hussain saying Rashid's bowling was ''excellent''. I thought it was ok and better than I expected at the start of this tour (which is saying very little) but a long way short of excellence. One of the Indian commentators (?) referred to him as ''good in patches''. Thought that damning with faint praise was about right. In this match, he's gone at more than 3 an over, bowled 3 maidens in his 47 overs and has the wickets of India's numbers 9 and 10 batsmen. Hardly on a par with Ashwin's fivefer!
At least, Rashid has done better than Ansari. Apparently, the Surrey slow left armer was suffering from ''nausea'' yesterday. Even so, it's noticeable that he hasn't bowled since day one. His goose seems well and truly cooked, the word being he'll be replaced by Woakes for Test 3 (regardless of Broad's fitness which is now in doubt).
guildfordbat- Posts : 16610
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Re: Eng in India
Well yes that is my feeling on Kohli (different pitch). Even Pujara on day one never looked as comfortable. He is in a great run of form
Bit disappointed also with the England spinners . Don't quite get all the love for Rashid...he is improving , yes ; but at the moment he doesn't really get top order batsmen out ; and he still allows too many easy runs for my taste. Ansari really doesn't do enough with the ball and doesn't have the metronomic accuracy that might make up for that shortcoming....Moeen remains the best of them for me ; though he isn't consistent enough. The search goes on...
Bit disappointed also with the England spinners . Don't quite get all the love for Rashid...he is improving , yes ; but at the moment he doesn't really get top order batsmen out ; and he still allows too many easy runs for my taste. Ansari really doesn't do enough with the ball and doesn't have the metronomic accuracy that might make up for that shortcoming....Moeen remains the best of them for me ; though he isn't consistent enough. The search goes on...
alfie- Posts : 20896
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Re: Eng in India
Posted at same time as you , guildford
I see we are broadly in agreement...
I see we are broadly in agreement...
alfie- Posts : 20896
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Re: Eng in India
Think you guys are being a tad harsh on Rashid, think he has been good. Not quite good enough to be getting the praise he was from Nasser though (looked solid with the bat too tbf).
Worried about broad - tendon troubles in his foot....can't imagine he'll play the next test. And like Guildford, can't see Zaf retaining his place either.
I'd personally go Woakes for broad, and Batty for Ansari. Although I could see the argument for Finn/Ball for Ansari depending on the pitch
On this game - England need a minor miracle to see this out. Would be good to see Duckett get some runs
Worried about broad - tendon troubles in his foot....can't imagine he'll play the next test. And like Guildford, can't see Zaf retaining his place either.
I'd personally go Woakes for broad, and Batty for Ansari. Although I could see the argument for Finn/Ball for Ansari depending on the pitch
On this game - England need a minor miracle to see this out. Would be good to see Duckett get some runs
Good Golly I'm Olly- Tractor Boy
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Re: Eng in India
Oh ... and an utterly ridiculous review by Ansari (following chat with Rashid) which denied Broad a review and his dismissal being overturned.
The English commentators on Sky have tried to give the impression that Kohli and India are at a massive disadvantage over DRS. As above, that is not always being borne out and England still have things to learn.
The English commentators on Sky have tried to give the impression that Kohli and India are at a massive disadvantage over DRS. As above, that is not always being borne out and England still have things to learn.
guildfordbat- Posts : 16610
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Re: Eng in India
Well, Rashid wasn't running through the Indian batting lineup, but in both innings, he bowled well enough. Think if we move ever so suddenly from waiting to see if he'll do enough to hold on to his place to expecting him to replicate Ravichandran Ashwin's success, all within 2 tests, that's asking for quite a lot. That too when Moeen's inconsistencies are considered as best available that we have to live with in comparison....... Rashid is not going to be Graeme Swann's spiritual successor, he's not England's Shane Warne, but given the support from the management, he can become a kind of a legspinning Ashley Giles. Not that he would be able to maintain Giles like general control, but that he will do a decent enough job.......
msp83- Posts : 16069
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Re: Eng in India
alfie wrote:Posted at same time as you , guildford
I see we are broadly in agreement...
Definitely.
guildfordbat- Posts : 16610
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Re: Eng in India
msp83 wrote:Well, Rashid wasn't running through the Indian batting lineup, but in both innings, he bowled well enough. Think if we move ever so suddenly from waiting to see if he'll do enough to hold on to his place to expecting him to replicate Ravichandran Ashwin's success, all within 2 tests, that's asking for quite a lot. That too when Moeen's inconsistencies are considered as best available that we have to live with in comparison....... Rashid is not going to be Graeme Swann's spiritual successor, he's not England's Shane Warne, but given the support from the management, he can become a kind of a legspinning Ashley Giles. Not that he would be able to maintain Giles like general control, but that he will do a decent enough job.......
Msp - as you suggest, such an expectation is not only unrealistic but ridiculous. However, that is what Hussain is prompting by referring to Rashid's bowling as ''excellent''.
guildfordbat- Posts : 16610
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Re: Eng in India
Sorry chaps : I don't mean to give the impression that I think Rashid is rubbish. I agree he has some good points (handy batting for one ) ; but I feel he gets a rather good press just because he is that rare species - an English wrist spinner. And , practically speaking , that means he is going to struggle to hold down a regular spot in the team without distorting the natural balance. Just not sure he offers enough to make that a smart move.
In Asia , he should indeed play. I expect him to hold his spot for the whole series : but I will withhold any enthusiastic supports until he actually exerts significant influence on a game.
One issue I have is that he is too easily milked : I have no problem with a wrist spinner being a bit expensive - it is the nature of the beast ; but I'd rather see him smashed for six over mid on than flat batted to the mid wicket fence off a short ball...the former involves the risk of a miscue : too many of the scoring shots off Rashid don't seem to carry much risk at all...
I am afraid I am coming across as too critical again ... Sorry as I don't mean to be. But while I want him to become a serious success in generally spin friendly conditions , I am not yet seeing it happening. He has another three Tests to prove me wrong ; and I hope he does so.
In Asia , he should indeed play. I expect him to hold his spot for the whole series : but I will withhold any enthusiastic supports until he actually exerts significant influence on a game.
One issue I have is that he is too easily milked : I have no problem with a wrist spinner being a bit expensive - it is the nature of the beast ; but I'd rather see him smashed for six over mid on than flat batted to the mid wicket fence off a short ball...the former involves the risk of a miscue : too many of the scoring shots off Rashid don't seem to carry much risk at all...
I am afraid I am coming across as too critical again ... Sorry as I don't mean to be. But while I want him to become a serious success in generally spin friendly conditions , I am not yet seeing it happening. He has another three Tests to prove me wrong ; and I hope he does so.
alfie- Posts : 20896
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Re: Eng in India
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Think you guys are being a tad harsh on Rashid, think he has been good. Not quite good enough to be getting the praise he was from Nasser though (looked solid with the bat too tbf).
Worried about broad - tendon troubles in his foot....can't imagine he'll play the next test. And like Guildford, can't see Zaf retaining his place either.
I'd personally go Woakes for broad, and Batty for Ansari. Although I could see the argument for Finn/Ball for Ansari depending on the pitch
On this game - England need a minor miracle to see this out. Would be good to see Duckett get some runs
Olly - understand your thinking about the next XI although, as you say, a lot depends on the pitch.
Don't know if you saw The Verdict yesterday. Stewart and, more surprisingly, Willis were pretty sympathetic and supportive towards Duckett. [The third member of the panel, Cork, was once more just a waste of my Sky subscription.]
guildfordbat- Posts : 16610
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Re: Eng in India
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Think you guys are being a tad harsh on Rashid, think he has been good. Not quite good enough to be getting the praise he was from Nasser though (looked solid with the bat too tbf).
Worried about broad - tendon troubles in his foot....can't imagine he'll play the next test. And like Guildford, can't see Zaf retaining his place either.
I'd personally go Woakes for broad, and Batty for Ansari. Although I could see the argument for Finn/Ball for Ansari depending on the pitch
On this game - England need a minor miracle to see this out. Would be good to see Duckett get some runs
Major miracle I think , Olly
If Broad is injured then yes , Woakes comes back and the remaining spot is between Batty and Finn. (Hard to select Ball with no lead up form). Would be a pity though as Broad is bowling pretty well . One can see the gulf that still exists between the two openers and any other England bowler - hope he and Jimmy are good for a year or two yet.
Duckett needs runs. Not really anyone handy to step in at four at the moment ; but if he doesn't show a bit more soonish they'll be tempted to roll the dice with Buttler - and heaven knows what that means for the batting order .( I would prefer they leave 5-8 where they are as that part of the order is working. And I don't like weakening a strength to try and address a problem...it often leave you worse off !)
alfie- Posts : 20896
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Re: Eng in India
alfie wrote:Sorry chaps : I don't mean to give the impression that I think Rashid is rubbish. I agree he has some good points (handy batting for one ) ; but I feel he gets a rather good press just because he is that rare species - an English wrist spinner. And , practically speaking , that means he is going to struggle to hold down a regular spot in the team without distorting the natural balance. Just not sure he offers enough to make that a smart move.
In Asia , he should indeed play. I expect him to hold his spot for the whole series : but I will withhold any enthusiastic supports until he actually exerts significant influence on a game.
One issue I have is that he is too easily milked : I have no problem with a wrist spinner being a bit expensive - it is the nature of the beast ; but I'd rather see him smashed for six over mid on than flat batted to the mid wicket fence off a short ball...the former involves the risk of a miscue : too many of the scoring shots off Rashid don't seem to carry much risk at all...
I am afraid I am coming across as too critical again ... Sorry as I don't mean to be. But while I want him to become a serious success in generally spin friendly conditions , I am not yet seeing it happening. He has another three Tests to prove me wrong ; and I hope he does so.
Alfie - I think that is all valid and very fair.
You are actually kinder and more supportive than me. Without some improvement tomorrow and in the next Test, I would seriously consider going with Moeen and Batty in the last two Tests of this series. That doesn't provide variety but variety is worth little if it is ineffective.
guildfordbat- Posts : 16610
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Re: Eng in India
alfie wrote:
...
Duckett needs runs. Not really anyone handy to step in at four at the moment ; but if he doesn't show a bit more soonish they'll be tempted to roll the dice with Buttler - and heaven knows what that means for the batting order .( I would prefer they leave 5-8 where they are as that part of the order is working. And I don't like weakening a strength to try and address a problem...it often leave you worse off !)
Despite needless yapping interruption from Cork (I don't like him), my man Stewart (I do like him) delivered an interesting feature on Duckett on Sky's The Verdict yesterday. Stewart has clearly got time for the batsman and referred to his impressive county record over the last of couple of years earning him his place on this tour. However, backed up by clips, Stewart's main thrust was that Duckett, when facing India's spinners, although moving his feet needs to move his head more to get it in line. Not doing so (enough) is causing his bat to be at too much of an angle, resulting in being bowled or glancing a catch to slip. Sorry if that's not explained well but it appeared to have merit.
The main question then for Stewart was not so much whether Duckett could rectify that but how quickly. Stewart emphasised that good Test players learn quickly and that was the challenge that Duckett really faced now. Stewart didn't know how immediately Duckett would face up to this and deal with it; not because he particularly doubted the player but because he didn't properly know him. The additional handicap for modern Test players of not having matches between Tests, as we've previously discussed, was also emphasised.
It therefore came down to what happens in the nets following this Test. One option Stewart speculated about - if the management in India don't have confidence in Duckett turning things round in the short term - is to bring in Buttler (subject to his form in the nets) and bat him at number 7 with Moeen, Stokes and Bairstow at 4, 5 and 6. It was clear Stewart viewed Buttler only as a late-middle order possibility. Stewart was also adamant that Bairstow should retain the keeper's gloves and referred to him having improved enormously in that role.
guildfordbat- Posts : 16610
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Re: Eng in India
I also noticed that comment...and thought then....it's juts stock bowling on a pitch offering a lot of sloe turn and keeping low.guildfordbat wrote:
I kept hearing Nasser Hussain saying Rashid's bowling was ''excellent''. I thought it was ok
Nothing excellent
Shows the bar of expectation is too low from the spinners atleast of Hussain.
Eng's most likest bowlers to take wicket have been the seamers all the time.
They should get Woakes back for Ansari......strengthens their batting and bowling, doesn't matter what the pitch is like
KP_fan- Posts : 10098
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Re: Eng in India
Before this test I suggested that Woakes should play instead of Ansari. A view that was ridiculed by many.
LivinginItaly- Posts : 953
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Re: Eng in India
http://www.bcci.tv/videos/id/3270/ind-vs-eng-2016-2nd-test-day-3-r-ashwin-interview
Ashwin interview....very insightful...on the pitch especially and in general on everything that he touches upon-
you can hear the intelligent mind that drives all those wickets he takes
Ashwin interview....very insightful...on the pitch especially and in general on everything that he touches upon-
you can hear the intelligent mind that drives all those wickets he takes
KP_fan- Posts : 10098
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Re: Eng in India
Only caught about 10 minutes worth of highlights on Youtube, so impossible to get a real feel for how well people batted/bowled, but my only two observations are England will not be saving this game - I would imagine India have enough already. And also the Rahul review and dismissal - it looked very much like HH was the driving force behind getting Eng to review, and for a player of his age and experience it shows he feels like he belongs to be that confident tell his captain what to do, which can only be a good thing for England.
JDizzle- Posts : 6865
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Re: Eng in India
guildfordbat wrote:Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Think you guys are being a tad harsh on Rashid, think he has been good. Not quite good enough to be getting the praise he was from Nasser though (looked solid with the bat too tbf).
Worried about broad - tendon troubles in his foot....can't imagine he'll play the next test. And like Guildford, can't see Zaf retaining his place either.
I'd personally go Woakes for broad, and Batty for Ansari. Although I could see the argument for Finn/Ball for Ansari depending on the pitch
On this game - England need a minor miracle to see this out. Would be good to see Duckett get some runs
Olly - understand your thinking about the next XI although, as you say, a lot depends on the pitch.
Don't know if you saw The Verdict yesterday. Stewart and, more surprisingly, Willis were pretty sympathetic and supportive towards Duckett. [The third member of the panel, Cork, was once more just a waste of my Sky subscription.]
I don't watch it (I can't stand Willis, or Colville) - but I also share some sympathy for Duckett. Can't think of many harder situations to come in and make your test bow than facing Ravi Ashwin in India. He hasn't done well admittedly, but I'd like to see him given the series at least.
If they bring the extra seamer in - I would quite like to see it be Ball. Think he has greater control than Finn, and that will allow the spinners to be more attacking (if Finn goes for runs, suddenly you're relying on Anderson/Woakes to get through a load of overs)
Good Golly I'm Olly- Tractor Boy
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Re: Eng in India
That cook has essentialy ignored Ansari as an option for two days speaks volumes to me about how much he wants him in the team.
Agree or disagree with the policy I cant see past Woakes getting his spot for the next test unless he some how changes the game if he eventually gets a bowl ( or heck make 200 wit the bat to Gillespe the game) .
Buttler in for Duckett also seems increasingly possible as a panic step...leaving england with 3 proper batsmen . Which would be straight up emabessing.
But at least they can wake up tomorrow knowing they have more good ones than Australia.
Agree or disagree with the policy I cant see past Woakes getting his spot for the next test unless he some how changes the game if he eventually gets a bowl ( or heck make 200 wit the bat to Gillespe the game) .
Buttler in for Duckett also seems increasingly possible as a panic step...leaving england with 3 proper batsmen . Which would be straight up emabessing.
But at least they can wake up tomorrow knowing they have more good ones than Australia.
Gooseberry- Posts : 8384
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Re: Eng in India
I gather Ansari has been unwell , Goose ; which might have something to do with his not bowling. But I would imagine he is likely to cede his spot to either Batty or a seamer for the next match. Doesn't mean he will never get another chance ; but at the moment he is neither incisive not economical enough to be a first choice spinner ; and given the makeup of the team his additional selling point as a handy batsman is of limited importance.
Looks like a struggle for England today : early bad luck for Jimmy with
a set of four overthrows...
But Broad nips out Rahane with a lifter : well bowled . Though the way that went suggests India's seamers might be able to get a bit out of this day four pitch too.
Rashid time now :
Looks like a struggle for England today : early bad luck for Jimmy with
a set of four overthrows...
But Broad nips out Rahane with a lifter : well bowled . Though the way that went suggests India's seamers might be able to get a bit out of this day four pitch too.
Rashid time now :
Last edited by alfie on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 5:25 am; edited 1 time in total
alfie- Posts : 20896
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Location : Melbourne.
Re: Eng in India
Broad now adds Ashwin to his bag
"Hobbling" we are told ; but he looks to be enjoying his bowling this morning. Don't think it can be too bad or you'd think Cook wouldn't be risking further damage by keeping him going...after all , these wickets are really only delaying the inevitable declaration and setting of a huge task for the England's bats.
"Hobbling" we are told ; but he looks to be enjoying his bowling this morning. Don't think it can be too bad or you'd think Cook wouldn't be risking further damage by keeping him going...after all , these wickets are really only delaying the inevitable declaration and setting of a huge task for the England's bats.
alfie- Posts : 20896
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Re: Eng in India
Rashid traps Saha now...
For once a Dharmasena decision survives a review
England will be batting fairly soon. I think.
For once a Dharmasena decision survives a review
England will be batting fairly soon. I think.
alfie- Posts : 20896
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Re: Eng in India
Kohli falls to a quite magnificent catch by Stokes
Misses out on a second century ; but he's done enough to win his team the match.
Rashid benefits from the Indian pursuit of quick runs ...
Misses out on a second century ; but he's done enough to win his team the match.
Rashid benefits from the Indian pursuit of quick runs ...
alfie- Posts : 20896
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Re: Eng in India
And the general opinion seems to be that they've completely given up on Broad being fit to play the next match so have decided to just use him to destruction here and then send him off for a rest.
Seems a bit odd to me. But they have brought a full squad of pace bowlers on the trip...
Meanwhile , Rashid is actually bowling pretty well at the other end.
Seems a bit odd to me. But they have brought a full squad of pace bowlers on the trip...
Meanwhile , Rashid is actually bowling pretty well at the other end.
alfie- Posts : 20896
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Re: Eng in India
Might not need a declaration as Jadeja holes out in the deep off Rashid.
162/8. Think they have enough runs already
162/8. Think they have enough runs already
alfie- Posts : 20896
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Re: Eng in India
Bairstow does well to gather a sharply bouncing catch ...and Rashid has four.
England have bowled very well this morning. But batting is going to b tough.
Looks as if they are going to have a full five sessions to chase about 360-370. Or rather ; a lot of overs to survive...
England have bowled very well this morning. But batting is going to b tough.
Looks as if they are going to have a full five sessions to chase about 360-370. Or rather ; a lot of overs to survive...
alfie- Posts : 20896
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Re: Eng in India
Spoke too soon : this last pair are hanging around...lead up to 379 now.
And nearly lunch. Will they continue after the break ?
And nearly lunch. Will they continue after the break ?
alfie- Posts : 20896
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Re: Eng in India
Of course ...these days they play on with nine down , just as they've long done at tea.
India's new all rounder Jayant and Shami the licensed big hitter having fun here...
192/9 : looks as if they want the 400 lead.
India's new all rounder Jayant and Shami the licensed big hitter having fun here...
192/9 : looks as if they want the 400 lead.
alfie- Posts : 20896
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Re: Eng in India
At least this last wicket stand shows conditions are far from unplayable. Though there is enough happening to indicate India can be confident of taking ten wickets in a day and a half...like the shooter that just ran for four to bring up the 400 lead ...
alfie- Posts : 20896
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Re: Eng in India
Moeen comes on and ends it with a neat stumping from the excellent Bairstow
England need 405.
Good luck
England need 405.
Good luck
alfie- Posts : 20896
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Re: Eng in India
Interested to see the latest line on Rashid.
That he was unable to dislodge number 9 and 11 when a legspinner is expected to run through the lower order? That India were looking for quick runs and didn't mind giving away a few wickets in the process and Rashid was lucky enough to be the right person at the right time? That the pitch was turning a mile and any mediocre spinner would have done what he did?
That he was unable to dislodge number 9 and 11 when a legspinner is expected to run through the lower order? That India were looking for quick runs and didn't mind giving away a few wickets in the process and Rashid was lucky enough to be the right person at the right time? That the pitch was turning a mile and any mediocre spinner would have done what he did?
msp83- Posts : 16069
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Re: Eng in India
As for India, yet another failure for Wriddhiman Saha with the bat. He hasn't made any significant contribution with the bat in this series other than a little bit of a partnership with Ashwin in the first innings at Rajkot. He has been part of 3 collapses so far. And his much hyped glove work has been shoddy and unreliable. Aren't the selectors taking note of young Rishabh Pant? Think the lad is a touch too much for domestic bowlers, perhaps they shold give him some squad time now, to give him that much valuable experience, and also to send Saha the message. Hope Saha can go on for a year or 2 more by the time Pant could be more prepared as such, but then, Saha has to be spotless at least with the gloves, his primary responsibility, and chip in with some runs. Perhaps they can demote him to 8 and promote Jadeja or even Jayant Yadav up the order. Jadeja has been batting like a bowler in this series, trying to slog most of the times. When he was forced to bat more like a batsman at Rajkot in a pressure situation, he did deliver. Any which way, they need to do something about Saha. I know KPF's argument about not judging Saha on a test-to-test basis and under regular circumstances that is fair enough. But Saha has been India's regular gloveman for nearly 2 years now, and other than the stretch from the West Indies to the New Zealand tour, he has been inconsistent with both gloves and bat.
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