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Scotland V England - The Calcutta Cup

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Post by RDW on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 8:35 am

First topic message reminder :

GUINNESS SIX NATIONS 2020
8 FEB 2020
BT MURRAYFIELD
KICK-OFF 4:45 PM




Past results


201013 MarchScotland V England - The Calcutta Cup - Page 4 23px-Flag_of_England.svg England15–15MurrayfieldEdinburgh633915
201113 MarchScotland V England - The Calcutta Cup - Page 4 23px-Flag_of_England.svg England22–17TwickenhamLondon643915
20124 FebruaryScotland V England - The Calcutta Cup - Page 4 23px-Flag_of_England.svg England6–13MurrayfieldEdinburgh653915
20132 FebruaryScotland V England - The Calcutta Cup - Page 4 23px-Flag_of_England.svg England38–18TwickenhamLondon663915
20148 FebruaryScotland V England - The Calcutta Cup - Page 4 23px-Flag_of_England.svg England0–20MurrayfieldEdinburgh673915
201514 MarchScotland V England - The Calcutta Cup - Page 4 23px-Flag_of_England.svg England25–13TwickenhamLondon683915
20166 FebruaryScotland V England - The Calcutta Cup - Page 4 23px-Flag_of_England.svg England9–15[2]MurrayfieldEdinburgh693915
201711 MarchScotland V England - The Calcutta Cup - Page 4 23px-Flag_of_England.svg England61–21[3]TwickenhamLondon703915
201824 FebruaryScotland V England - The Calcutta Cup - Page 4 23px-Flag_of_Scotland.svg Scotland25–13[4]MurrayfieldEdinburgh704015
201916 MarchScotland V England - The Calcutta Cup - Page 4 23px-Flag_of_Scotland.svg Scotland38–38TwickenhamLondon704016
Teams

Scotland V England - The Calcutta Cup - Page 4 HP7hDa92HluFnAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC
TBC


Scotland V England - The Calcutta Cup - Page 4 OZiWAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC


Furbank; May, Joseph, Farrell, Daly; Ford, Heinz; M Vunipola, George, Sinckler, Kruis, Itoje, Ludlam, Underhill, Curry

Replacements: Dunn, Genge, Stuart, Launchbury, Lawes, Earl, Youngs, Devoto

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Post by Rinsure on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:41 am

Thorley misses out, then. Shame, thought he offered a power carrier option, although Devoto on the bench offers some wellie. As it were.

Back-row looks better balanced, still not sold on the positioning, but Eddie gonna Eddie.

I read on twitter (but haven't validated it) that England have won 15 of 17 with the Ford-Farrell-Joseph combination in place.

Pleased Furbank gets another shot.

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Post by RDW on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:42 am

BamBam wrote:Team is out

Mako
George
Sinckler
Itoje
Lawes
Ludlam
Underhill
Curry
Heinz
Ford
Daly
Farrell (c)
Joseph
May
Furbank

Dunn
Genge
Stuart
Launchbury
Lawes
Earl
Youngs
Devoto

Lawes mentioned twice?

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Post by BamBam on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:43 am

lostinwales wrote:Lawes twice? I know the man works hard but..

Tough on Marler.

Kruis starting apparently.

Odd subs - full front 5

Obviously meant to be Kruis Doh

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Post by Khouli Khan on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:43 am

RDW wrote:
BamBam wrote:Team is out

Mako
George
Sinckler
Itoje
Lawes
Ludlam
Underhill
Curry
Heinz
Ford
Daly
Farrell (c)
Joseph
May
Furbank

Dunn
Genge
Stuart
Launchbury
Lawes
Earl
Youngs
Devoto

Lawes mentioned twice?

Lawes is benched, Itoje & Kruis start at lock.

Tasty team is that. Still the issue at No8, but it could rip Scotland a new one if it clicks.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:45 am

BamBam wrote:Heinz starting, Ewels bombed out, 6-2 split on the bench, Lawes back to lock - the only quibbles are Curry at 8 and the balance from 10-12-13 for me as I prefer a punchier carrier

Would have been harsh to drop Ford and Farrell is always starting so not many options there I guess

Would not have been harsh to drop Farrell he was terrible last weekend. Possibly our worst player (which says something).

Naming two locks on the bench seems somewhat pointless as well. Looks like Lawes will come on in to the backrow. This fixture has a tendency to open up in the second half so that really isn't the time you want to go to playing three locks and being noticeably less mobile.

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Post by Rinsure on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:45 am

lostinwales wrote:
Tough on Marler.

Three into two doesn't go, and Mako was left out last week specifically to come in for this game. Genge got less game time than Marler last week, so on a pure time management perspective, they have less miles on them this tournament.

Genge also put himself about a bit when he came on, which may have edged the selection for a "finisher".

Be interesting to see if the addition of Mako improves our carrying in the heavy traffic; his absence was cited as a key piece missing last week.

Easy with hindsight, mind you.

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Post by Tramptastic on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:46 am

The last time that 10-12-13 combo played against scotland it was that 66-21 drubbing Shocked

Eek!

Although Brown had also got himself red carded within the first 10 minutes in that game so...

*continues to desperately clutch at straws*

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:52 am

Welcome to a hostile Murrayfield chaps.

I hope I'm wrong but I can't see us winning it. Sad
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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:53 am

BamBam wrote:Edit - I'm a twonk and can't read 

Yep.

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Post by Tramptastic on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:55 am

TightHEAD wrote:Welcome to a hostile Murrayfield chaps.

I hope I'm wrong but I can't see us winning it. Sad

Not allowed. The underdog tag is ours. Get your own team of perennial losers!

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Post by BamBam on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:56 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:
BamBam wrote:Heinz starting, Ewels bombed out, 6-2 split on the bench, Lawes back to lock - the only quibbles are Curry at 8 and the balance from 10-12-13 for me as I prefer a punchier carrier

Would have been harsh to drop Ford and Farrell is always starting so not many options there I guess

Would not have been harsh to drop Farrell he was terrible last weekend. Possibly our worst player (which says something).

Naming two locks on the bench seems somewhat pointless as well. Looks like Lawes will come on in to the backrow. This fixture has a tendency to open up in the second half so that really isn't the time you want to go to playing three locks and being noticeably less mobile.

I meant it would have been harsh to drop Ford, and Farrell is always starting regardless - this was referring to my hope for a punchier carrier somewhere in the midfield

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:58 am

I just don't understand the selection, why do we continually leave out form players?
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Post by BigGee on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:58 am

Two front fives, looks like Eddie is planning to win this one up front. A stick it up the jumper special awaits!

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Post by Mr Bounce on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:59 am

Why has Luke Cowan-Mullet been dropped?

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:00 am

BamBam wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
BamBam wrote:Heinz starting, Ewels bombed out, 6-2 split on the bench, Lawes back to lock - the only quibbles are Curry at 8 and the balance from 10-12-13 for me as I prefer a punchier carrier

Would have been harsh to drop Ford and Farrell is always starting so not many options there I guess

Would not have been harsh to drop Farrell he was terrible last weekend. Possibly our worst player (which says something).

Naming two locks on the bench seems somewhat pointless as well. Looks like Lawes will come on in to the backrow. This fixture has a tendency to open up in the second half so that really isn't the time you want to go to playing three locks and being noticeably less mobile.

I meant it would have been harsh to drop Ford, and Farrell is always starting regardless - this was referring to my hope for a punchier carrier somewhere in the midfield

Very true we need some more punch in the midfield. Ford, Devoto, Joseph the old Bath midfield would make sense to me. Nevermind it's not to be.

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Post by BigGee on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:00 am

Mr Bounce wrote:Why has Luke Cowan-Mullet been dropped?

His partner having a baby!

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:02 am

BigGee wrote:
Mr Bounce wrote:Why has Luke Cowan-Mullet been dropped?

His partner having a baby!

and?
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Post by lostinwales on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:02 am

Mr Bounce wrote:Why has Luke Cowan-Mullet been dropped?

Either Eddie decided there were too many Exeter players in the team or maybe Dunn mentioned a Welsh granny. (Yes I have seen the real reason)

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Post by Mr Bounce on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:02 am

Ah ok that's fair

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:03 am

TightHEAD wrote:I just don't understand the selection, why do we continually leave out form players?

Based on last week that would be Jonny May on his own. What happens if he breaks his nose?

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:03 am

Looks like my No1 fan is here again. Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Yahoo

Make yourself know if you have the bottle!
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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:03 am

TightHEAD wrote:
BigGee wrote:
Mr Bounce wrote:Why has Luke Cowan-Mullet been dropped?

His partner having a baby!

and?

What if it looks like Finn Russell?

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:06 am

Is Eddie just experimenting having a look at different players in different environments and scenarios etc this 6n.


Last edited by GeordieFalcon on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:07 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by maestegmafia on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:06 am

Some interesting calls by the selectors surprised they have ditched Young’s despite his performance.


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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:09 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Is Eddie just experimenting having a look at different players in different environments and scenarios etc this 6n.

To a degree. He said before the first match that therer would be changes between both games due to both being away and the 6 day turn round. So hard to tell how many changes were pre-planned, and how many are a reaction.

What should not be forgotten is how close we came to scoring trys in the first five minutes of each half last week. We butchered any number of chances and need to get the points this week.

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:10 am

maestegmafia wrote:Some interesting calls by the selectors surprised they have ditched Young’s despite his performance.


I just don't understand what Eddie is doing, looks like he is rebuilding on a world-cup-cycle but he is only around for another season. Strange days indeed.

We need this win so badly this weekend.
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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:10 am

The biggest thing for me...is the lack of a heavy duty carrier in the backs. it looks underpowered...defensively also.

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Post by Rinsure on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:13 am

BigGee wrote:Two front fives, looks like Eddie is planning to win this one up front. A stick it up the jumper special awaits!

The Springboks had a 6-2 split in the RWC final, and replaced the entirety of their front five inside of an hour (de Jager went off injured on 21', but would probably have gone with the others). Suggests a sustained power game up front, with the tight five going balls out for an hour, then getting replace by another front five to go just as hard.

The presence of Daly covering the OC and back three, and Farrell covering 12 and 10, means the 2 on the bench for the backs should work unless multiple injury issues.

Thorley unlucky!

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Post by RDW on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:14 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:The biggest thing for me...is the lack of a heavy duty carrier in the backs. it looks underpowered...defensively also.
You can get away with that against Scotland - we've not got a powerful backline like Wales or Ireland do.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:14 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:The biggest thing for me...is the lack of a heavy duty carrier in the backs. it looks underpowered...defensively also.

But who would be that heavy duty carrier? Devoto is big, but does not ever fulfill that role, Manu and Smoking Joe are injured, Te'o long gone.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:15 am

Bench make up probably nudged by the predicted weather. Young is dropped which is a step in the right direction. Launchbury back is always good news. Ludlam probably does deserve the spot ahead of earl given his impact last week but I'd be happier with earl over curry at 8. Depends a bit who packs down there I suppose.

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Post by BamBam on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:16 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
BamBam wrote:Edit - I'm a twonk and can't read 

Yep.

Don't you have a sheep to bother?

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Post by lostinwales on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:17 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:The biggest thing for me...is the lack of a heavy duty carrier in the backs. it looks underpowered...defensively also.

There was a great article (or post here) about Joseph when he was on his best form. What he did as well or better than anyone is exploit the holes made by Billy. It all goes back to how we make opportunities and how we exploit those.

Having a Vunipola is the simplest and easiest way of tying up defenders and creating opportunities. Maybe Mako will be able to do that, we'll see

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:18 am

Not sure Scotland is the game for a 6-2 split myself, would have been starting Genge with Marler on the bench personally but I suppose the one game where big Joes scrummaging is needed the least, do however prefer the dominant defence of the pair over Mako.


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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:24 am

LondonTiger wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:The biggest thing for me...is the lack of a heavy duty carrier in the backs. it looks underpowered...defensively also.

But who would be that heavy duty carrier? Devoto is big, but does not ever fulfill that role, Manu and Smoking Joe are injured, Te'o long gone.

Thats a valid question to be fair. I think Devoto is the obvious answer...but your right he's not an identical replacement for Manu.




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Post by Rugby Fan on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:41 am

- No second row at 6
- Youngs dropped to the bench
- A Vunipola back

Seems like Jones has faced up to some of Sunday's issues. Most of his critics would prefer him to have reached outside his original squad but I don't think he's being stubborn on this occasion. After a directionless loss, unless you are suddenly convinced certain players can't hack it, then you probably want to show some faith to as not to undermine squad confidence.

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Post by Cumbrian on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:44 am

I think the 6-2 bench is being dictated by the weather, it looks like the game is going to be played in poor conditions and is likely to be more attritional than open. In this respect it makes more sense to have plenty of forward replacements.
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Post by BamBam on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:46 am

The bench choices in the backs mean we're pretty inflexible though. Can Devoto play 13/15 in a push? If JJ goes off, we have Daly as a 13 option but then what about the back 3?

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Post by Cumbrian on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:47 am

We've essentially got three opensides in the back-row too, if we can't affect at least one turnover in this game I am going to shoot myself in the head.
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Post by Cumbrian on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:51 am

BamBam wrote:The bench choices in the backs mean we're pretty inflexible though. Can Devoto play 13/15 in a push? If JJ goes off, we have Daly as a 13 option but then what about the back 3?

If we lose Joseph or Furbank early on in the game it is going to be squeaky bum time for quite a lot of the afternoon.  I guess May could cover full back. To my mind he has looked safer under the highball than any of the fullbacks we have tried since Brown.  I sometimes wonder if we missed a trick not converting him earlier in his career, I think he could have made an excellent 15.  I guess we'd have missed out on his wing prowess then though.
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Post by Rinsure on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:57 am

On Curry at 8, the player EJ compared him to seems to agree with EJ:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2020/02/06/eddie-jones-right-tom-curry-blacks-career-proved-flankers-can/

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Post by BigGee on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:57 am

BamBam wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
BamBam wrote:Edit - I'm a twonk and can't read 

Yep.

Don't you have a sheep to bother?


That's enough both of you please, it's been a good thread and we don't want it spoilt

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Post by tigertattie on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 12:08 pm

Still some Eddie bashing on the go from the chariot swinging side.

I think he's been rather clever with his 6-2 split. The forcast for Saturday is currnetly looking rather disgusting so the game could easily decend into a 1970s style brawl.

Having the extra forward could be a game changer.

Of course, if the rain stills away until after kick off, Scotland could open up and use the extra pace in the last 20 to win the game.
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Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 12:09 pm

BamBam wrote:The bench choices in the backs mean we're pretty inflexible though. Can Devoto play 13/15 in a push? If JJ goes off, we have Daly as a 13 option but then what about the back 3?

I think Devoto's days at 15 were pretty much done when early in his career he got stepped and left behind by Tom Croft. He really isn't quick enough for 15.

See video at the 1 minute mark (sorry couldn't find the official coverage so its a fab video).

https://youtu.be/b7GZTToNiwA

He's really a centre though he could slot in at 13.

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Post by 123456789. on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 12:13 pm

Tramptastic wrote:The last time that 10-12-13 combo played against scotland it was that 66-21 drubbing Shocked

Eek!

Although Brown had also got himself red carded within the first 10 minutes in that game so...

*continues to desperately clutch at straws*

Last time that 10-12-13 played against Scotland it was that 25-13 drubbing...


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Post by lostinwales on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 12:14 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
BamBam wrote:The bench choices in the backs mean we're pretty inflexible though. Can Devoto play 13/15 in a push? If JJ goes off, we have Daly as a 13 option but then what about the back 3?

I think Devoto's days at 15 were pretty much done when early in his career he got stepped and left behind by Tom Croft. He really isn't quick enough for 15.

See video at the 1 minute mark (sorry couldn't find the official coverage so its a fab video).

https://youtu.be/b7GZTToNiwA

He's really a centre though he could slot in at 13.

I don't think he's the only back who got stepped and left for dead by Croft though.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 12:21 pm

BigGee wrote:
BamBam wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
BamBam wrote:Edit - I'm a twonk and can't read 

Yep.

Don't you have a sheep to bother?


That's enough both of you please, it's been a good thread and we don't want it spoilt

This guy slags me off when I disagree with him. Now he slags me off when I agree with him. I just can't win BigGee!

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 12:21 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
BamBam wrote:The bench choices in the backs mean we're pretty inflexible though. Can Devoto play 13/15 in a push? If JJ goes off, we have Daly as a 13 option but then what about the back 3?

I think Devoto's days at 15 were pretty much done when early in his career he got stepped and left behind by Tom Croft. He really isn't quick enough for 15.

See video at the 1 minute mark (sorry couldn't find the official coverage so its a fab video).

https://youtu.be/b7GZTToNiwA

He's really a centre though he could slot in at 13.

Tom Croft was just about the quickest forward you'll ever see in fairness, very few backs had his pace.

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Post by lostinwales on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 12:23 pm

When is the Scottish team named?

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Post by RDW on Thu 06 Feb 2020, 12:25 pm

lostinwales wrote:When is the Scottish team named?
They said 'soon' over 2 hours ago!

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