Scotland V England - The Calcutta Cup

by **RDW** Mon 03 Feb 2020, 8:35 am

First topic message reminder :

GUINNESS SIX NATIONS 2020

8 FEB 2020

BT MURRAYFIELD

KICK-OFF 4:45 PM

Past results

2010	13 March	England	15–15	Murrayfield	Edinburgh	63	39	15
2011	13 March	England	22–17	Twickenham	London	64	39	15
2012	4 February	England	6–13	Murrayfield	Edinburgh	65	39	15
2013	2 February	England	38–18	Twickenham	London	66	39	15
2014	8 February	England	0–20	Murrayfield	Edinburgh	67	39	15
2015	14 March	England	25–13	Twickenham	London	68	39	15
2016	6 February	England	9–15^[2]	Murrayfield	Edinburgh	69	39	15
2017	11 March	England	61–21^[3]	Twickenham	London	70	39	15
2018	24 February	Scotland	25–13^[4]	Murrayfield	Edinburgh	70	40	15
2019	16 March	Scotland	38–38	Twickenham	London	70	40	16

Teams

Scotland V England - The Calcutta Cup - Page 4 HP7hDa92HluFnAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC

TBC

Scotland V England - The Calcutta Cup - Page 4 OZiWAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC

Furbank; May, Joseph, Farrell, Daly; Ford, Heinz; M Vunipola, George, Sinckler, Kruis, Itoje, Ludlam, Underhill, Curry

Replacements: Dunn, Genge, Stuart, Launchbury, Lawes, Earl, Youngs, Devoto

by Rinsure Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:41 am

Thorley misses out, then. Shame, thought he offered a power carrier option, although Devoto on the bench offers some wellie. As it were.

Back-row looks better balanced, still not sold on the positioning, but Eddie gonna Eddie.

I read on twitter (but haven't validated it) that England have won 15 of 17 with the Ford-Farrell-Joseph combination in place.

Pleased Furbank gets another shot.

by **RDW** Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:42 am

BamBam wrote:Team is out

Mako
George
Sinckler
Itoje
Lawes
Ludlam
Underhill
Curry
Heinz
Ford
Daly
Farrell (c)
Joseph
May
Furbank

Dunn
Genge
Stuart
Launchbury
Lawes
Earl
Youngs
Devoto

Lawes mentioned twice?

by BamBam Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:43 am

lostinwales wrote:Lawes twice? I know the man works hard but..

Tough on Marler.

Kruis starting apparently.

Odd subs - full front 5

Obviously meant to be Kruis Doh

by Khouli Khan Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:43 am

RDW wrote:
BamBam wrote:Team is out

Mako
George
Sinckler
Itoje
Lawes
Ludlam
Underhill
Curry
Heinz
Ford
Daly
Farrell (c)
Joseph
May
Furbank

Dunn
Genge
Stuart
Launchbury
Lawes
Earl
Youngs
Devoto

Lawes mentioned twice?

Lawes is benched, Itoje & Kruis start at lock.

Tasty team is that. Still the issue at No8, but it could rip Scotland a new one if it clicks.

by formerly known as Sam Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:45 am

BamBam wrote:Heinz starting, Ewels bombed out, 6-2 split on the bench, Lawes back to lock - the only quibbles are Curry at 8 and the balance from 10-12-13 for me as I prefer a punchier carrier

Would have been harsh to drop Ford and Farrell is always starting so not many options there I guess

Would not have been harsh to drop Farrell he was terrible last weekend. Possibly our worst player (which says something).

Naming two locks on the bench seems somewhat pointless as well. Looks like Lawes will come on in to the backrow. This fixture has a tendency to open up in the second half so that really isn't the time you want to go to playing three locks and being noticeably less mobile.

by Rinsure Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:45 am

lostinwales wrote:
Tough on Marler.

Three into two doesn't go, and Mako was left out last week specifically to come in for this game. Genge got less game time than Marler last week, so on a pure time management perspective, they have less miles on them this tournament.

Genge also put himself about a bit when he came on, which may have edged the selection for a "finisher".

Be interesting to see if the addition of Mako improves our carrying in the heavy traffic; his absence was cited as a key piece missing last week.

Easy with hindsight, mind you.

by Tramptastic Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:46 am

The last time that 10-12-13 combo played against scotland it was that 66-21 drubbing Shocked

Eek!

Although Brown had also got himself red carded within the first 10 minutes in that game so...

*continues to desperately clutch at straws*

by TightHEAD Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:52 am

Welcome to a hostile Murrayfield chaps.

I hope I'm wrong but I can't see us winning it. Sad

by mikey_dragon Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:53 am

BamBam wrote:Edit - I'm a twonk and can't read

Yep.

by Tramptastic Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:55 am

TightHEAD wrote:Welcome to a hostile Murrayfield chaps.

I hope I'm wrong but I can't see us winning it.

Not allowed. The underdog tag is ours. Get your own team of perennial losers!

by BamBam Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:56 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:
BamBam wrote:Heinz starting, Ewels bombed out, 6-2 split on the bench, Lawes back to lock - the only quibbles are Curry at 8 and the balance from 10-12-13 for me as I prefer a punchier carrier

Would have been harsh to drop Ford and Farrell is always starting so not many options there I guess

Would not have been harsh to drop Farrell he was terrible last weekend. Possibly our worst player (which says something).

Naming two locks on the bench seems somewhat pointless as well. Looks like Lawes will come on in to the backrow. This fixture has a tendency to open up in the second half so that really isn't the time you want to go to playing three locks and being noticeably less mobile.

I meant it would have been harsh to drop Ford, and Farrell is always starting regardless - this was referring to my hope for a punchier carrier somewhere in the midfield

by TightHEAD Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:58 am

I just don't understand the selection, why do we continually leave out form players?

by **BigGee** Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:58 am

Two front fives, looks like Eddie is planning to win this one up front. A stick it up the jumper special awaits!

by Mr Bounce Thu 06 Feb 2020, 10:59 am

Why has Luke Cowan-Mullet been dropped?

by formerly known as Sam Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:00 am

BamBam wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
BamBam wrote:Heinz starting, Ewels bombed out, 6-2 split on the bench, Lawes back to lock - the only quibbles are Curry at 8 and the balance from 10-12-13 for me as I prefer a punchier carrier

Would have been harsh to drop Ford and Farrell is always starting so not many options there I guess

Would not have been harsh to drop Farrell he was terrible last weekend. Possibly our worst player (which says something).

Naming two locks on the bench seems somewhat pointless as well. Looks like Lawes will come on in to the backrow. This fixture has a tendency to open up in the second half so that really isn't the time you want to go to playing three locks and being noticeably less mobile.

I meant it would have been harsh to drop Ford, and Farrell is always starting regardless - this was referring to my hope for a punchier carrier somewhere in the midfield

Very true we need some more punch in the midfield. Ford, Devoto, Joseph the old Bath midfield would make sense to me. Nevermind it's not to be.

by **BigGee** Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:00 am

Mr Bounce wrote:Why has Luke Cowan-Mullet been dropped?

His partner having a baby!

by TightHEAD Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:02 am

BigGee wrote:
Mr Bounce wrote:Why has Luke Cowan-Mullet been dropped?

His partner having a baby!

and?

by lostinwales Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:02 am

Mr Bounce wrote:Why has Luke Cowan-Mullet been dropped?

Either Eddie decided there were too many Exeter players in the team or maybe Dunn mentioned a Welsh granny. (Yes I have seen the real reason)

by Mr Bounce Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:02 am

Ah ok that's fair

by Gooseberry Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:03 am

TightHEAD wrote:I just don't understand the selection, why do we continually leave out form players?

Based on last week that would be Jonny May on his own. What happens if he breaks his nose?

by TightHEAD Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:03 am

Looks like my No1 fan is here again. Laugh

Make yourself know if you have the bottle!

by Gooseberry Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:03 am

TightHEAD wrote:
BigGee wrote:
Mr Bounce wrote:Why has Luke Cowan-Mullet been dropped?

His partner having a baby!

and?

What if it looks like Finn Russell?

by Geordie Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:06 am

Is Eddie just experimenting having a look at different players in different environments and scenarios etc this 6n.

by maestegmafia Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:06 am

Some interesting calls by the selectors surprised they have ditched Young’s despite his performance.

by **LondonTiger** Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:09 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Is Eddie just experimenting having a look at different players in different environments and scenarios etc this 6n.

To a degree. He said before the first match that therer would be changes between both games due to both being away and the 6 day turn round. So hard to tell how many changes were pre-planned, and how many are a reaction.

What should not be forgotten is how close we came to scoring trys in the first five minutes of each half last week. We butchered any number of chances and need to get the points this week.

by TightHEAD Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:10 am

maestegmafia wrote:Some interesting calls by the selectors surprised they have ditched Young’s despite his performance.

I just don't understand what Eddie is doing, looks like he is rebuilding on a world-cup-cycle but he is only around for another season. Strange days indeed.

We need this win so badly this weekend.

by Geordie Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:10 am

The biggest thing for me...is the lack of a heavy duty carrier in the backs. it looks underpowered...defensively also.

by Rinsure Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:13 am

BigGee wrote:Two front fives, looks like Eddie is planning to win this one up front. A stick it up the jumper special awaits!

The Springboks had a 6-2 split in the RWC final, and replaced the entirety of their front five inside of an hour (de Jager went off injured on 21', but would probably have gone with the others). Suggests a sustained power game up front, with the tight five going balls out for an hour, then getting replace by another front five to go just as hard.

The presence of Daly covering the OC and back three, and Farrell covering 12 and 10, means the 2 on the bench for the backs should work unless multiple injury issues.

Thorley unlucky!

by **RDW** Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:14 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:The biggest thing for me...is the lack of a heavy duty carrier in the backs. it looks underpowered...defensively also.

You can get away with that against Scotland - we've not got a powerful backline like Wales or Ireland do.

by **LondonTiger** Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:14 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:The biggest thing for me...is the lack of a heavy duty carrier in the backs. it looks underpowered...defensively also.

But who would be that heavy duty carrier? Devoto is big, but does not ever fulfill that role, Manu and Smoking Joe are injured, Te'o long gone.

by No 7&1/2 Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:15 am

Bench make up probably nudged by the predicted weather. Young is dropped which is a step in the right direction. Launchbury back is always good news. Ludlam probably does deserve the spot ahead of earl given his impact last week but I'd be happier with earl over curry at 8. Depends a bit who packs down there I suppose.

by BamBam Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:16 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
BamBam wrote:Edit - I'm a twonk and can't read

Yep.

Don't you have a sheep to bother?

by lostinwales Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:17 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:The biggest thing for me...is the lack of a heavy duty carrier in the backs. it looks underpowered...defensively also.

There was a great article (or post here) about Joseph when he was on his best form. What he did as well or better than anyone is exploit the holes made by Billy. It all goes back to how we make opportunities and how we exploit those.

Having a Vunipola is the simplest and easiest way of tying up defenders and creating opportunities. Maybe Mako will be able to do that, we'll see

by Soul Requiem Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:18 am

Not sure Scotland is the game for a 6-2 split myself, would have been starting Genge with Marler on the bench personally but I suppose the one game where big Joes scrummaging is needed the least, do however prefer the dominant defence of the pair over Mako.

by Geordie Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:24 am

LondonTiger wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:The biggest thing for me...is the lack of a heavy duty carrier in the backs. it looks underpowered...defensively also.

But who would be that heavy duty carrier? Devoto is big, but does not ever fulfill that role, Manu and Smoking Joe are injured, Te'o long gone.

Thats a valid question to be fair. I think Devoto is the obvious answer...but your right he's not an identical replacement for Manu.

by **Rugby Fan** Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:41 am

- No second row at 6
- Youngs dropped to the bench
- A Vunipola back

Seems like Jones has faced up to some of Sunday's issues. Most of his critics would prefer him to have reached outside his original squad but I don't think he's being stubborn on this occasion. After a directionless loss, unless you are suddenly convinced certain players can't hack it, then you probably want to show some faith to as not to undermine squad confidence.

by Cumbrian Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:44 am

I think the 6-2 bench is being dictated by the weather, it looks like the game is going to be played in poor conditions and is likely to be more attritional than open. In this respect it makes more sense to have plenty of forward replacements.

by BamBam Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:46 am

The bench choices in the backs mean we're pretty inflexible though. Can Devoto play 13/15 in a push? If JJ goes off, we have Daly as a 13 option but then what about the back 3?

by Cumbrian Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:47 am

We've essentially got three opensides in the back-row too, if we can't affect at least one turnover in this game I am going to shoot myself in the head.

by Cumbrian Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:51 am

BamBam wrote:The bench choices in the backs mean we're pretty inflexible though. Can Devoto play 13/15 in a push? If JJ goes off, we have Daly as a 13 option but then what about the back 3?

If we lose Joseph or Furbank early on in the game it is going to be squeaky bum time for quite a lot of the afternoon. I guess May could cover full back. To my mind he has looked safer under the highball than any of the fullbacks we have tried since Brown. I sometimes wonder if we missed a trick not converting him earlier in his career, I think he could have made an excellent 15. I guess we'd have missed out on his wing prowess then though.

by Rinsure Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:57 am

On Curry at 8, the player EJ compared him to seems to agree with EJ:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2020/02/06/eddie-jones-right-tom-curry-blacks-career-proved-flankers-can/

by **BigGee** Thu 06 Feb 2020, 11:57 am

BamBam wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
BamBam wrote:Edit - I'm a twonk and can't read

Yep.

Don't you have a sheep to bother?

That's enough both of you please, it's been a good thread and we don't want it spoilt

by tigertattie Thu 06 Feb 2020, 12:08 pm

Still some Eddie bashing on the go from the chariot swinging side.

I think he's been rather clever with his 6-2 split. The forcast for Saturday is currnetly looking rather disgusting so the game could easily decend into a 1970s style brawl.

Having the extra forward could be a game changer.

Of course, if the rain stills away until after kick off, Scotland could open up and use the extra pace in the last 20 to win the game.

by formerly known as Sam Thu 06 Feb 2020, 12:09 pm

BamBam wrote:The bench choices in the backs mean we're pretty inflexible though. Can Devoto play 13/15 in a push? If JJ goes off, we have Daly as a 13 option but then what about the back 3?

I think Devoto's days at 15 were pretty much done when early in his career he got stepped and left behind by Tom Croft. He really isn't quick enough for 15.

See video at the 1 minute mark (sorry couldn't find the official coverage so its a fab video).

https://youtu.be/b7GZTToNiwA

He's really a centre though he could slot in at 13.

by 123456789. Thu 06 Feb 2020, 12:13 pm

Tramptastic wrote:The last time that 10-12-13 combo played against scotland it was that 66-21 drubbing

Eek!

Although Brown had also got himself red carded within the first 10 minutes in that game so...

*continues to desperately clutch at straws*

Last time that 10-12-13 played against Scotland it was that 25-13 drubbing...

by lostinwales Thu 06 Feb 2020, 12:14 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
BamBam wrote:The bench choices in the backs mean we're pretty inflexible though. Can Devoto play 13/15 in a push? If JJ goes off, we have Daly as a 13 option but then what about the back 3?

I think Devoto's days at 15 were pretty much done when early in his career he got stepped and left behind by Tom Croft. He really isn't quick enough for 15.

See video at the 1 minute mark (sorry couldn't find the official coverage so its a fab video).

https://youtu.be/b7GZTToNiwA

He's really a centre though he could slot in at 13.

I don't think he's the only back who got stepped and left for dead by Croft though.

by mikey_dragon Thu 06 Feb 2020, 12:21 pm

BigGee wrote:
BamBam wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
BamBam wrote:Edit - I'm a twonk and can't read

Yep.

Don't you have a sheep to bother?

That's enough both of you please, it's been a good thread and we don't want it spoilt

This guy slags me off when I disagree with him. Now he slags me off when I agree with him. I just can't win BigGee!

by Soul Requiem Thu 06 Feb 2020, 12:21 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
BamBam wrote:The bench choices in the backs mean we're pretty inflexible though. Can Devoto play 13/15 in a push? If JJ goes off, we have Daly as a 13 option but then what about the back 3?

I think Devoto's days at 15 were pretty much done when early in his career he got stepped and left behind by Tom Croft. He really isn't quick enough for 15.

See video at the 1 minute mark (sorry couldn't find the official coverage so its a fab video).

https://youtu.be/b7GZTToNiwA

He's really a centre though he could slot in at 13.

Tom Croft was just about the quickest forward you'll ever see in fairness, very few backs had his pace.

by lostinwales Thu 06 Feb 2020, 12:23 pm

When is the Scottish team named?

by **RDW** Thu 06 Feb 2020, 12:25 pm

lostinwales wrote:When is the Scottish team named?

They said 'soon' over 2 hours ago!

by Sponsored content