Scotland V England - The Calcutta Cup

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Past results

2010	13 March	England	15–15	Murrayfield	Edinburgh	63	39	15
2011	13 March	England	22–17	Twickenham	London	64	39	15
2012	4 February	England	6–13	Murrayfield	Edinburgh	65	39	15
2013	2 February	England	38–18	Twickenham	London	66	39	15
2014	8 February	England	0–20	Murrayfield	Edinburgh	67	39	15
2015	14 March	England	25–13	Twickenham	London	68	39	15
2016	6 February	England	9–15[2]	Murrayfield	Edinburgh	69	39	15
2017	11 March	England	61–21[3]	Twickenham	London	70	39	15
2018	24 February	Scotland	25–13[4]	Murrayfield	Edinburgh	70	40	15
2019	16 March	Scotland	38–38	Twickenham	London	70	40	16

Teams


TBC





Furbank; May, Joseph, Farrell, Daly; Ford, Heinz; M Vunipola, George, Sinckler, Kruis, Itoje, Ludlam, Underhill, Curry

Replacements: Dunn, Genge, Stuart, Launchbury, Lawes, Earl, Youngs, Devoto

So young's dropped to the bench for this game....pitty not dropped altogether and Care brought in instead.

Gooseberry wrote:

123456789. wrote: I'm not saying that it's beyond feasibility that they tear up on Saturday, because they have that potential. But there was a very good reason they were broken up as a trio, and that is because Manu Tuilagi and Henry Slade are very good players and I am glad they are not the partnership for Saturday.

It was because Joseph got injured.

Although its fairly probable it never would've happened if Tuillagi had always been available to Jones. Indeed Farrell might never have happened under Jones if Tuillagi had been fit and Ford didnt have one bad game kicking.

Do think its fair to say we havent seen the same JJ as of old, and that conditions wise it would be really helpful to have a running 12 rather than one who can only kick or try and throw it wide.

Its hard to imagine this wouldve been first choice in the front row, back row, and outside backs for England had everyone been available. A couple of players starting might not have even made the 23.

Feel a tad silly now. Still I think England played comfortably their best rugby with Tuilagi and Slade at 13 and 12, Tuilagi is a very special player and I can't see that he wouldn't have been selected somewhere regardless.

I wouldn't feel silly numbers

JJ has periods where he looks like a top 3 centre in the world, but when he picks up injury it takes him a long time to regain that form

The last period of injury and recovery saw Tuilagi return and Slade finally break through, and it's taken this long for JJ to get another real starting opportunity

Hopefully he's back to world beating form, but haven't seen enough of him this season to comment

Our defence, especially in the centre of the park, is ropey at best.

Tuilagi running at SJ/Huw is a far more worrying prospect than Farrell/JJ trying to around them.

It’s going to be a tough game this. For both sides. Folk predicting a home win are delusional. Folk predicting an away win are also delusional. We’re all delusional.

Front row, sorry chaps, England have the advantage here. Mako, George, Sinckler is a potential lions front row. Sutherland, penalty boy, Ragnar is not.

England have the advantage in the second row also.

Back row is Scotland.

Ali price vs Mr 57 is a dead heat.

Ford pips Gav jnr.

Farrell trumps SJ. Joseph and Huw are a dead heat

Daly and May (mostly May) trump maitland and blairhorn (mostly blairhorn)

Fullback is adv Hogg if he gets his finger out finally.

The breakdown is key. If the Scotland forwards can get to the ruck that 1/2 sec quicker or be that 5% more stronger then Scotland can win the game.

If England rock up to prove that the game vs Nz in the World Cup wasn’t a one off, a spanking could be handed out.

Thank god Youngs has been dropped. Cant wait for young tyro Heinz to tear it up. If he plays well he could be a fixture in the team for years to come...

yappysnap wrote:Thank god Youngs has been dropped. Cant wait for young tyro Heinz to tear it up. If he plays well he could be a fixture in the team for years to come...

Ha ha ha h...

Would you really pick Youngs ahead of Heinz who is for me the best 9 available to England? I appreciate he isn't 21 and therefore isn't ideal, but name a no 9 who is better than him? Spencer is still playing behind Wigglesworth who is at least 59, Robson is regularly ill or injured and is still trying to establish himself. After that??? Let's worry about winning on Saturday rather than who is going to start in the next world cup in 3 and half years.

Sorry no, I've been really vocal about how poor Youngs is for a while now. I am pleased he's gone, I just wish it had been two games sooner!

It was a tongue in cheek post referring to the total lack of planning for this moment that seems to have caught EJ by surprise even though most of the rugby world saw it coming.

On a side note, some one mentioned on a other forum that Eddie Jones breaks teams then rebuilds them (or leaves).

He started with a broken team,fixed it and we went on that winning run.

He then broke it (obviously there's more to it), and we went on the losing run.

He then fixed it and we made the RWC final.

Now I guess we'll see.

yappysnap wrote:Thank god Youngs has been dropped. Cant wait for young tyro Heinz to tear it up. If he plays well he could be a fixture in the team for years to come...

No disrespect to you, but why does everybody keep saying that 'Youngs has been dropped'.... he hasn't, he's still in the match day 23 isn't he?

Jones has always said that (and we all know) that these days, its a 23 man game. We must assume that Heinz starting and Youngs on the bench means that Jones has a strategy..... although lately i'm not convinced Jones really knows what he wants to do.

Somebody said on another thread that Jones is one of those people who has early coaching success with a team and then fades to the ridiculous. I can't help but agree really - except that in his early tenure, he also had a fair bit of luck too. Mind you, so does every coach so its hard to criticize him for that. Since Jones took over there have been some incredible highs - GS and 6N glory, historic series win in Australia and beating the AB in the WC semi-final in what I personally think was one of the best rugby games ever played. But all this has been interspersed by random selection, England teams 'going missing' for 20 minutes of every match when it really counted - or simply not turning up at all.

I can't help but think that England peaked under Eddie with that win over NZ and that under his tenure, the overall picture is that when the stars align, England are the best in the world, but more often than not, they're performing despite him and not because of him. If England were as consistent as lets say - Wales - have been under Gatland, with the players available, they'd be up there in the panthenon.

Thought jones had a better win ratio than gatland?

The Six Nations organisers have confirmed they are in dialogue with the unions and “monitoring the situation” regarding Storm Ciara. The Met Office has issued a blanket yellow wind warning across the UK with gusts of up to 50mph expected in Edinburgh.

From the bottom of a guardian article:another abandonment and draw coming up then.

No 7&1/2 wrote:The Six Nations organisers have confirmed they are in dialogue with the unions and “monitoring the situation” regarding Storm Ciara. The Met Office has issued a blanket yellow wind warning across the UK with gusts of up to 50mph expected in Edinburgh.

From the bottom of a guardian article:another abandonment and draw coming up then.

It'll give Scottish Rugby another chance to sue the organisers.

Khouli Khan wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:The Six Nations organisers have confirmed they are in dialogue with the unions and “monitoring the situation” regarding Storm Ciara. The Met Office has issued a blanket yellow wind warning across the UK with gusts of up to 50mph expected in Edinburgh.

From the bottom of a guardian article:another abandonment and draw coming up then.

It'll give Scottish Rugby another chance to sue the organisers.

Link to where the SRU said they were going to sue please.

I cant see Scotland threatening to sue on this occasion as a draw would suit them. However, after what happened in Japan you never know.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

Khouli Khan wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:The Six Nations organisers have confirmed they are in dialogue with the unions and “monitoring the situation” regarding Storm Ciara. The Met Office has issued a blanket yellow wind warning across the UK with gusts of up to 50mph expected in Edinburgh.

From the bottom of a guardian article:another abandonment and draw coming up then.

It'll give Scottish Rugby another chance to sue the organisers.

Link to where the SRU said they were going to sue please.

That touched a nerve didn't it.....

There isn't one obviously - yet. Besides, I don't think Storm Ciara will be serious enough for them to threaten legal action.

So another comment you can't back up, surprise surprise.

It is a bit of wind.

When did Britain become soft?

Man up, get to the game if you want to. if not stay under the duvet covers.

TightHEAD wrote:It is a bit of wind.

When did Britain become soft?

Man up, get to the game if you want to. if not stay under the duvet covers.

If they decide not to play, can we sue them?

Khouli Khan wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:It is a bit of wind.

When did Britain become soft?

Man up, get to the game if you want to. if not stay under the duvet covers.

If they decide not to play, can we sue them?

I'd take the draw

The game will happen, it's a bit windy but nothing outrageous (the wind warning is only at yellow for the Edinburgh area).

In contrast was meant to heading to portpatrick after the game and that's turned out to be a total write off - picture a wee Yaris driving down to ayrshire and then heading south along that coastal road It'd disintegrate on contact with the storm!

Haven't seen any statements from the SRU or 6N?

It's gonna be very windy but can't imagine it will be called off. It's not like this is the first time Scotland has had wind!

My original comment was a tongue in cheek one against the update that the weather is being monitored. If games could go ahead when you had all those worms in the pitch I'd expect it to go ahead tomorrow!

No 7&1/2 wrote:My original comment was a tongue in cheek one against the update that the weather is being monitored. If games could go ahead when you had all those worms in the pitch I'd expect it to go ahead tomorrow!

Funnily enough, my comment about the SRU suing the organisers for a cancelled match was tongue in cheek as well - but it doesn't stop the humorless and those with poorly developed superiority complexes jumping in with both feet and then crying to the moderators when they don't get what they consider to be a satisfactory response.

No 7&1/2 wrote:My original comment was a tongue in cheek one against the update that the weather is being monitored. If games could go ahead when you had all those worms in the pitch I'd expect it to go ahead tomorrow!

You can't have subtlety or nuance on an internet forum, that's absurd!

Khouli Khan wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:My original comment was a tongue in cheek one against the update that the weather is being monitored. If games could go ahead when you had all those worms in the pitch I'd expect it to go ahead tomorrow!

Funnily enough, my comment about the SRU suing the organisers for a cancelled match was tongue in cheek as well - but it doesn't stop the humorless and those with poorly developed superiority complexes jumping in with both feet and then crying to the moderators when they don't get what they consider to be a satisfactory response.

Dry your eyes. Nobody would have reported that post. It was probably taken down by moderators for being garbage.

Anyway, cheer up a bit and enjoy the match tomorrow.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

Khouli Khan wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:My original comment was a tongue in cheek one against the update that the weather is being monitored. If games could go ahead when you had all those worms in the pitch I'd expect it to go ahead tomorrow!

Funnily enough, my comment about the SRU suing the organisers for a cancelled match was tongue in cheek as well - but it doesn't stop the humorless and those with poorly developed superiority complexes jumping in with both feet and then crying to the moderators when they don't get what they consider to be a satisfactory response.

Dry your eyes. Nobody would have reported that post. It was probably taken down by moderators for being garbage.

Anyway, cheer up a bit and enjoy the match tomorrow.

To be fair, I did use the term 'pedantic twonk'. I wonder if that did it?

TightHEAD wrote:It is a bit of wind.

Correction! It is a bit of Global Climate Crisis wind!
And we all know that even if it matches normal storm wind speeds, its effects will spread to the Arctic, melt an area the size of Wales, deplete fish stocks and kill polar bears! You insensitive cad!

Khouli Khan wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

Khouli Khan wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:My original comment was a tongue in cheek one against the update that the weather is being monitored. If games could go ahead when you had all those worms in the pitch I'd expect it to go ahead tomorrow!

Funnily enough, my comment about the SRU suing the organisers for a cancelled match was tongue in cheek as well - but it doesn't stop the humorless and those with poorly developed superiority complexes jumping in with both feet and then crying to the moderators when they don't get what they consider to be a satisfactory response.

Dry your eyes. Nobody would have reported that post. It was probably taken down by moderators for being garbage.

Anyway, cheer up a bit and enjoy the match tomorrow.

To be fair, I did use the term 'pedantic twonk'. I wonder if that did it?

Yep.

This has been an excellent thread so far - can we please move on.

I'm sure no one wants to be on the naughty step during the game.

RDW wrote:Haven't seen any statements from the SRU or 6N?

It's gonna be very windy but can't imagine it will be called off. It's not like this is the first time Scotland has had wind!

Haggis will do that to you.

RDW wrote:Haven't seen any statements from the SRU or 6N?

It's gonna be very windy but can't imagine it will be called off. It's not like this is the first time Scotland has had wind!

According to Mrs Jimbo, he has wind regularly!

Just to calm things down a bit, remember the world we live in and then apply some common sense to it.

A yellow "be aware" warning has been issued by the met office so the organisers have to look at things. Looking at things doesn't mean games will be cancelled. They just need to review certain aspects.

Imagine if a weather warning was issued, the organisers did absolutely nothing about it, then some poor soul gets killed by some falling structure that’s been blown off Murrayfield. The organisers would be publicly outed for not acting appropriately and would be looking at a hefty legal action.

tigertattie wrote:

RDW wrote:Haven't seen any statements from the SRU or 6N?

It's gonna be very windy but can't imagine it will be called off. It's not like this is the first time Scotland has had wind!

According to Mrs Jimbo, he has wind regularly!

Just to calm things down a bit, remember the world we live in and then apply some common sense to it.

A yellow "be aware" warning has been issued by the met office so the organisers have to look at things. Looking at things doesn't mean games will be cancelled. They just need to review certain aspects.

Imagine if a weather warning was issued, the organisers did absolutely nothing about it, then some poor soul gets killed by some falling structure that’s been blown off Murrayfield. The organisers would be publicly outed for not acting appropriately and would be looking at a hefty legal action.

Yes but what if they looked at things and the bit of falling structure still blew off and killed the poor soul?

I mean wind works in mysterious ways. My guess is hefty legal action regardless of pre-checks carried out by Murrayfield staff. Undoubtedly legal people would still blame procedural failings rather than immeasurably intermittent wind gusts. Can't sue Nature.

I think it's more likely that a Price box kick will end up hitting someone one the head sitting at Tannadice.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:I think it's more likely that a Price box kick will end up hitting someone one the head sitting at Tannadice.

If they're sitting in the stands at Tannadice on sat, they probably deserve a rugby ball to the face.

*Nichescottishfootballbanter*

EWT Spoons wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:I think it's more likely that a Price box kick will end up hitting someone one the head sitting at Tannadice.

If they're sitting in the stands at Tannadice on sat, they probably deserve a rugby ball to the face.

*Nichescottishfootballbanter*

Speaking of which....I saw somewhere that the SFA are delaying the kick offs to all matches on this Saturday (I believe) by a minute to allow a minute's reflection and awareness of men's mental health issues. Which is a good thing.
However, I think we should start a sweepstake and the winner has to pick which set of fans will be the first to sing, "If you're mental and you know it clap your hands".

SecretFly wrote:

tigertattie wrote:

RDW wrote:Haven't seen any statements from the SRU or 6N?

It's gonna be very windy but can't imagine it will be called off. It's not like this is the first time Scotland has had wind!

According to Mrs Jimbo, he has wind regularly!

Just to calm things down a bit, remember the world we live in and then apply some common sense to it.

A yellow "be aware" warning has been issued by the met office so the organisers have to look at things. Looking at things doesn't mean games will be cancelled. They just need to review certain aspects.

Imagine if a weather warning was issued, the organisers did absolutely nothing about it, then some poor soul gets killed by some falling structure that’s been blown off Murrayfield. The organisers would be publicly outed for not acting appropriately and would be looking at a hefty legal action.

Yes but what if they looked at things and the bit of falling structure still blew off and killed the poor soul?

I mean wind works in mysterious ways.  My guess is hefty legal action regardless of pre-checks carried out by Murrayfield staff.  Undoubtedly legal people would still blame procedural failings rather than immeasurably intermittent wind gusts.  Can't sue Nature.

Not quite Mr Fly. This is why shyster lawyers like GC get paid the big bucks, but its all about showing you did your best!

If there is a weather alert and the SRU didnt look at it then when something fell off, they can't say "look, we checked that 2 days ago and it was structrually sound, here is the engineers report confirming this, the wind hs loosened it there was nothing we could have done"

Shyster lawyers, structural engineers??? Are you pimping for GC & Flounder?

I think the SRU should carry out an analysis of the wind conditions around Murrayfield in order to determine loading on any structures likely to fall off and wind flow patterns around the stadium.

I am available to do this for a reasonable fee.

SecretFly wrote:

tigertattie wrote:

RDW wrote:Haven't seen any statements from the SRU or 6N?

It's gonna be very windy but can't imagine it will be called off. It's not like this is the first time Scotland has had wind!

According to Mrs Jimbo, he has wind regularly!

Just to calm things down a bit, remember the world we live in and then apply some common sense to it.

A yellow "be aware" warning has been issued by the met office so the organisers have to look at things. Looking at things doesn't mean games will be cancelled. They just need to review certain aspects.

Imagine if a weather warning was issued, the organisers did absolutely nothing about it, then some poor soul gets killed by some falling structure that’s been blown off Murrayfield. The organisers would be publicly outed for not acting appropriately and would be looking at a hefty legal action.

Yes but what if they looked at things and the bit of falling structure still blew off and killed the poor soul?

I mean wind works in mysterious ways.  My guess is hefty legal action regardless of pre-checks carried out by Murrayfield staff.  Undoubtedly legal people would still blame procedural failings rather than immeasurably intermittent wind gusts.  Can't sue Nature.

Why not? Billy Connolly sued God.

I won't even go there........

SecretFly wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:It is a bit of wind.

Correction!  It is a bit of Global Climate Crisis wind!  
And we all know that even if it matches normal storm wind speeds, its effects will spread to the Arctic, melt an area the size of Wales, deplete fish stocks and kill polar bears!  You insensitive cad!

Love sacks, its FAKE NEWS.



Anyway back to this weeks games, would Tompkins have been called up with our current centre selections woes?

I wish the English lads well against the Irish this weekend.

I don't watch a lot of the prem but surely Nick Tompkins was getting rated higher than Fraser Dingwall? Did Eddie Jones find out he'd had tompkins nicked out from under neath him by a Celtic team and subsequently lash out (mistakenly) in Scotlands direction by nicking Dingwall?

Nope, just didn't want Scotland nicknaming Dingwall - so it was just Jones trying some humanitarian intervention.

SecretFly wrote:Nope, just didn't want Scotland nicknaming Dingwall - so it was just Jones trying some humanitarian intervention.

As in "Christ mate, I saw this kid about to play for Scotland and, quite frankly, I saved his life and picked him for England"?

Yep.... just replace life with 'blushes' and you're good to go.

Imagine swapping "brave" performances for actual success... jeez

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

tigertattie wrote:

RDW wrote:Haven't seen any statements from the SRU or 6N?

It's gonna be very windy but can't imagine it will be called off. It's not like this is the first time Scotland has had wind!

According to Mrs Jimbo, he has wind regularly!

Just to calm things down a bit, remember the world we live in and then apply some common sense to it.

A yellow "be aware" warning has been issued by the met office so the organisers have to look at things. Looking at things doesn't mean games will be cancelled. They just need to review certain aspects.

Imagine if a weather warning was issued, the organisers did absolutely nothing about it, then some poor soul gets killed by some falling structure that’s been blown off Murrayfield. The organisers would be publicly outed for not acting appropriately and would be looking at a hefty legal action.

Yes but what if they looked at things and the bit of falling structure still blew off and killed the poor soul?

I mean wind works in mysterious ways.  My guess is hefty legal action regardless of pre-checks carried out by Murrayfield staff.  Undoubtedly legal people would still blame procedural failings rather than immeasurably intermittent wind gusts.  Can't sue Nature.

Why not? Billy Connolly sued God.

If it does get called off will the SRU sue itself for not adequately planning for the weather?

Should have had the foresight to put a roof on Murrayfield. Shocking lack of thought when you consider its geographical location.

I would definitely sue!

Very windy in Edinburgh and this is only the warmup - I suspect it's going to be so bad that goal kicks will be too much of a lottery.

Hope the teams have been doing plenty mauling practice!

Eejit wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:Just read on Twittre that it'll be Farrell's 35th start at centre for England, which is the same number of starts he's had at fly half.

That’s a staggering statistic considering he’s significantly better in one than the other.

Given some of the incendiary comments from Sam Johnson and Lewis Ludlam circulating about ahead of Saturday’s game I want to assure English fans that I don’t hate any of you, unless of course you are Edinburgh fans in which case it’s up in the air.

IMO he was a better centre until around 2015. He's now not big enough or strong enough to play 12 against the very best teams unless Tuilagi is playing but how many meltdowns or underperformances does Farrell have to have for England at 10 until people accept he has his flaws. The Wales game last year is a good place to start.

Weather forecast I saw this morning threatened 50 mph winds, thunder lightening and very heavy rain.

Jones may have got it right with two tight fives plus a versatile ball carrying back rower.

If the worst of what is threatened happens, I could see the match being abandoned; what happens then with the points?

Common sense would say that the the match should have been moved forward by a few hours and miss the worst of what Ciara is going to unleash, it's not that they haven't had sufficient warning. But when did common sense matter when it comes to TV revenue.

I just hope no one gets hurt because of the weather.