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Wales vs France - Round 3 “Redemption”

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Post by maestegmafia on Mon 10 Feb 2020, 10:13 am

First topic message reminder :

Getting your backside kicked and realising your faults can make you a far better and stronger team. Should you go on for a lengthy period without teams finding the flaws in your game you are likely to get a big surprise one day when said period ends..!

Ireland played really well last Saturday, they found flaws in wales defence and attack. I think we all knew our set piece hasn’t been world class but that has been the case for a long time.

Next we face the French, now one of only two teams who can claim a grandslam should their winning run continue and they look pretty handy. They neither look like the french teams of old, Sella, Penaud, Blanco and St Andre nor do they look like the recent sides of Vahmina, Basteraud and an endless stream of different flyhalfs.

Both teams are new to their coaches, both teams are looking to push on from their past and polish their game. France look better than this time last year, Wales maybe not so much...!

Sure going to be a great game.

Wales:

15. Leigh Halfpenny (87 Caps)
14. George North (93 Caps)
13. Nick Tompkins (2 Caps)
12. Hadleigh Parkes (27 Caps)
11. Josh Adams (23 Caps)
10. Dan Biggar (81 Caps)
9. Gareth Davies (52 Caps)

1. Wyn Jones (24 Caps)
2. Ken Owens (75 Caps)
3. Dillon Lewis (24 Caps)
4. Jake Ball (44 Caps)
5. Alun Wyn Jones (C) (136 Caps)
6. Ross Moriarty (43 Caps)
7. Justin Tipuric (74 Caps)
8. Taulupe Faletau (74 Caps)

Replacements:
16. Ryan Elias (11 Caps)
17. Rob Evans (37 Caps)
18. Leon Brown (8 Caps)
19. Will Rowlands (Uncapped)
20. Aaron Wainwright (20 Caps)
21. Tomos Williams (18 Caps)
22. Jarrod Evans (5 Caps)
23. Johnny McNicholl (2 Caps)


France

15. Anthony Bouthier (Montpellier)
14. Teddy Thomas (Racing 92)
13. Virimi Vakatawa (Racing 92)
12. Arthur Vincent (Montpellier)
11. Gaël Fickou (Stade Français)
10. Romain Ntamack (Toulouse)
9. Antoine Dupont (Toulouse)

1. Cyril Baille (Toulouse)
2. Julien Marchand (Toulouse)
3. Mohamed Haouas (Montpellier)
4. Bernard Le Roux (Racing 92)
5. Paul Willemse (Montpellier)
6. François Cros (Toulouse)
7. Charles Ollivon (Toulon) (c)
8. Grégory Alldritt (La Rochelle)

Replacements:
16. Camille Chat (Racing 92)
17. Jean-Baptiste Gros (Toulon)
18. Demba Bamba (Lyon)
19. Romain Taofifenua (Toulon)
20. Dylan Cretin (Lyon)
21. Baptiste Serin (Toulon)
22. Matthieu Jalibert (Bordeaux-Bègles)
23. Thomas Ramos (Toulouse)

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Post by maestegmafia on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 9:03 am

Team to be announced at 1300 today

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 9:18 am

Military precision, Maesteg, eh? Wink

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 10:04 am

chris_501 wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:On facebook yesterday Rugbyonslaught said - Biggar should not play.

https://rugbyonslaught.com/this-video-is-for-anyone-that-says-the-game-of-rugby-has-gone-soft/


IMHO Biggar should not play, safety first. as a Bath fan I think Preistland would do a good job for Wales this weekend.

Good decision that. He should be fine with 2 training days in the squad shouldn't he?

Yes 2 days should be fine, quality player. thumbsup
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Post by RiscaGame on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 10:45 am

The Oracle wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
The Oracle wrote:I think GD slipped a bit at international level, and TW was coming off the bench and improving things.  TW has since been the starting 9 and has been very good.  I think GD is a great 9 and don’t mind him starting but he needs to be really forcing TW out, and TW needs to be slipping, which I’m not seeing at the mo.  Webb is great on form, as you say, but again needs to earn it. Needs to be putting in awesome Ospreys performances get the starting jersey, for me.

Webb needs a chance to play. He is not technically an osprey until the summer. Toulon have replaced him.

Exactly, so I'd be against putting him straight in at the top level of rugby. He needs to earn the spot. TW has earned it.

Rhys Webb was a little rusty against Italy. It would still be TW start, GD bench for me.

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Post by The Oracle on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 11:06 am

RiscaGame wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
The Oracle wrote:I think GD slipped a bit at international level, and TW was coming off the bench and improving things.  TW has since been the starting 9 and has been very good.  I think GD is a great 9 and don’t mind him starting but he needs to be really forcing TW out, and TW needs to be slipping, which I’m not seeing at the mo.  Webb is great on form, as you say, but again needs to earn it. Needs to be putting in awesome Ospreys performances get the starting jersey, for me.

Webb needs a chance to play. He is not technically an osprey until the summer. Toulon have replaced him.

Exactly, so I'd be against putting him straight in at the top level of rugby. He needs to earn the spot. TW has earned it.

Rhys Webb was a little rusty against Italy. It would still be TW start, GD bench for me.

Yes I'd go for that. Great to have 3 excellent options. But form, for me, would be TW start with GD on the bench and RW busting a gut to oust them from the side (but admittedly difficult with no club).
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Post by RiscaGame on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 12:01 pm

Wales team to face France: Leigh Halfpenny; George North, Nick Tompkins, Hadleigh Parkes, Josh Adams; Dan Biggar, Gareth Davies; Wyn Jones, Ken Owens, Dillon Lewis; Jake Ball, Alun Wyn Jones (C); Ross Moriarty, Justin Tipuric, Taulupe Faletau.

Reps: Ryan Elias, Rob Evans, Leon Brown, Will Rowlands, Aaron Wainwright, Tomos Williams, Jarrod Evans, Johnny McNicholl.

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Post by RiscaGame on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 12:02 pm

I am a bit surprised by the change at 9, not by the change at 6.

Glad to see Rowlands on the bench. I feel he should offer more than Beard.

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Post by RiscaGame on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 12:08 pm

Only other change is Rob Evans in for Rhys Carre on the bench.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 12:11 pm

Tomos Williams's kicking wasn't great against Ireland, but that's hardly a strength of Gareth Davies's game. Two excellent scrum halves (halfs?) though, whichever way round you put them. The same can be said of France, assuming they stick with Dupont and Serin.

Agree on Wainwright, he hasn't been at his best so far. My worry every time with Moriarty, whether he's starting or coming off the bench, is his discipline. You could argue he was lucky only to get a yellow in the World Cup quarter final.

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Post by RiscaGame on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 12:16 pm

Yeah, Moriarty will be very keen to make a statement now he's a starter too. Hope he doesn't try too hard or be too fired up.

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Post by The Oracle on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 12:22 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Tomos Williams's kicking wasn't great against Ireland, but that's hardly a strength of Gareth Davies's game. Two excellent scrum halves (halfs?) though, whichever way round you put them. The same can be said of France, assuming they stick with Dupont and Serin.

Agree on Wainwright, he hasn't been at his best so far. My worry every time with Moriarty, whether he's starting or coming off the bench, is his discipline. You could argue he was lucky only to get a yellow in the World Cup quarter final.

I agree, but I think it's better (for discipline) with him starting rather than coming off the bench.  I just feel that on the bench he's sitting there stewing, getting wound up and spoiling for a fight, and then he comes on ready to blow and might end up being a bit naughty (like he did against France on the 1/4)!  Linked to having something to prove about not starting too.
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Post by chris_501 on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 12:24 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Yeah, Moriarty will be very keen to make a statement now he's a starter too. Hope he doesn't try too hard or be too fired up.

I think you need the odd guy in the pack that provides that hard edge. Obviously it needs to be managed, but there aren't many of those guys in our forwards, possibly Ball?

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Post by RiscaGame on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 1:02 pm

Ball is probably the only other yeah.

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Post by maestegmafia on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 1:08 pm

Pretty happy with that team. Let see what they can make happen.

I don’t have the confidence in the team that I had under Gatland and I’m sure many of you feel the same. A win against France at the moment seems a daunting task and to face England in two weeks time at Twickenham is another very difficult game.

My confidence will definitely be boosted if we sneak a win on Saturday.

Never thought the transition between Gatland and Pivac would be seamless but only recently realised how sure I felt in the previous regimes ability to prepare the team.

Wales need a very good performance

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 1:11 pm

OP updated with both teams.


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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 1:12 pm

Virimi Vakatawa will make his return for France against Wales as Gaël Fickou switches to the wing for the clash at Principality Stadium.

He will form a new-look centre pairing with Arthur Vincent, who had replaced him against the Azzurri.

Fickou, France’s most capped player, returns to the wing, where he featured the last time France travelled to Cardiff in 2018.

His switch comes following Vincent Rattez’s broken fibula that ended his Championship, while Damian Penaud’s calf injury has kept him out of contention.

Elsewhere it is an unchanged starting XV named by Fabien Galthié, with Charles Ollivon captaining the side once more.

Antoine Dupont and Romain Ntamack, both of whom have missed some training this week with niggles, are fit to take their places.

There are changes on the bench however, with prop Jean-Baptiste Gros and flanker Dylan Cretin set to make their debuts after being preferred to Jefferson Poirot and Cameron Woki respectively.


Camille Chat is also back fit and slots in among the replacements, while Thomas Ramos is set for his first appearance of the Championship as outside backs cover.

France are currently top of the table with nine points from their first two games, and are seeking a first win in Wales since 2010, the last time they won the Grand Slam.

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Post by Guest on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 1:35 pm

This looks like the best Welsh team so far but question marks over the English-now-Welsh players I suppose. How will Tompkins bounce back and what can Rowlands do at this level. Gareth Davies' defence and Tomos Williams' lack of it is something being overlooked.

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Post by Guest on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 1:39 pm

This could be the game of the tournament. I make it almost a 50:50 game.

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Post by The Oracle on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 1:40 pm

I think we need to pile into them and try to get on top early and build a lead (if possible).  I want to see an 110mph start from us.  What we can't do, which we have done the last two times we've played them, is just let them come at us and then chase the game.  It just about worked out OK under Gatland but a) this is now under Pivac and I'm not sure the gameplan/tactics will allow us to be chasing big scores, and b) this is a new and improved France who will probably not let teams back in so easily.

The new France have got themselves into comfortable leads and seen out the game in their opening two 6N fixtures.  We need to see how they cope if they're behind and chasing the game.  Easier said than done, but we must come out all guns blazing and try to be the aggressor looking to get the early points and see how France react.
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 2:10 pm

maestegmafia wrote:Pretty happy with that team. Let see what they can make happen.

I don’t have the confidence in the team that I had under Gatland and I’m sure many of you feel the same. A win against France at the moment seems a daunting task and to face England in two weeks time at Twickenham is another very difficult game.

My confidence will definitely be boosted if we sneak a win on Saturday.

Never thought the transition between Gatland and Pivac would be seamless but only recently realised how sure I felt in the previous regimes ability to prepare the team.

Wales need a very good performance

I think one problem is that some of us forgot what a task it is to go to Dublin and win. We had some hidings there under Gatland and Edwards too, so it's even harder to explain. I guess Scotland's performance gave us hope, or perhaps the fact the Ireland didn't look particularly sharp in that match; but our disappointment after the match is directly linked to our optimism ahead of it.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 2:26 pm

The squad requires Carre if he’s available. Disappointing that North is still undroppable.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 2:31 pm

The Oracle wrote:I think we need to pile into them and try to get on top early and build a lead (if possible).  I want to see an 110mph start from us.  What we can't do, which we have done the last two times we've played them, is just let them come at us and then chase the game.  It just about worked out OK under Gatland but a) this is now under Pivac and I'm not sure the gameplan/tactics will allow us to be chasing big scores, and b) this is a new and improved France who will probably not let teams back in so easily.

The new France have got themselves into comfortable leads and seen out the game in their opening two 6N fixtures.  We need to see how they cope if they're behind and chasing the game.  Easier said than done, but we must come out all guns blazing and try to be the aggressor looking to get the early points and see how France react.
I'm not sure how true that is. Both England and Italy came back against them. The closing stages of the England game was pretty 'squeaky-bum time'.

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Post by The Oracle on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 3:05 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
The Oracle wrote:I think we need to pile into them and try to get on top early and build a lead (if possible).  I want to see an 110mph start from us.  What we can't do, which we have done the last two times we've played them, is just let them come at us and then chase the game.  It just about worked out OK under Gatland but a) this is now under Pivac and I'm not sure the gameplan/tactics will allow us to be chasing big scores, and b) this is a new and improved France who will probably not let teams back in so easily.

The new France have got themselves into comfortable leads and seen out the game in their opening two 6N fixtures.  We need to see how they cope if they're behind and chasing the game.  Easier said than done, but we must come out all guns blazing and try to be the aggressor looking to get the early points and see how France react.
I'm not sure how true that is. Both England and Italy came back against them. The closing stages of the England game was pretty 'squeaky-bum time'.


Yeah, but I feel that France would perhaps have lost that England game a year or so ago.  Maybe I'm just buying into the media hysteria surrounding the Edwards effect, but I do think they look more organised in defense and if so I don't think they would be as likely to switch off after building a lead to the extent that they did twice against us recently.  Hope I'm wrong.  Hope we aren't behind at any point either!
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 3:16 pm

It's so hard to evaluate any the sides based on just two performances (but that's what makes this such a great tournament!). France have looked very good indeed in spells, but they've also switched off in each of the matches they've played. There's also the fact that they played both of their games at home. 

The impression I get is that this French side is less likely to get blown off course or shrink into itself if Wales get on top, where other French sides have done. Dupont in particular looks very assured. But there's no way of knowing until the match kicks off.

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Post by Guest on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 3:59 pm

For me France started sorting themselves out in 2017 and have slowly been improving ever since. There is still a long way to go because they really should be the best team in Europe and third best in the world but Edwards has definitely add big benefits to an already much improved defensive system we saw in the world cup.

I think it's a shame France didn't play England in hindsight out in Japan. No one would have predicted France would beat England a few weeks ago. Given how close the Wales game was and the red card we perhaps missed out on seeing France really show what they were about in the world cup. I think they've now turned the corner and probably did so last summer.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 4:10 pm

France coach Fabien Galthie described Wales prop Wyn Jones’s allegations that Les Bleus would cheat at the scrum in their Six Nations clash on Saturday as a lack of respect towards his country.

Jones said he hoped France would not get away with bending the rules at the scrum.

“It’s a lack of respect towards our scrum, towards our team, towards French rugby, towards our nation,” Galthie told reporters after naming his team on Thursday for the game in Cardiff.

“In the first two matches, their scrum collapsed 13 times and was penalised six times. We were penalised four times,” the former France captain added.

France manager Raphael Ibanez backed his coach, saying his players had been working closely with referees to abide by the scrum regulations.

“It was a blatant, childish attack,” he told reporters. “Our reference person is the referee, not a rival team’s coach or player.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/wales-cheating-allegations-show-a-lack-of-respect-says-france-coach-fabien-galthie-1.4179676


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Post by Irish Londoner on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 4:16 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:France coach Fabien Galthie described Wales prop Wyn Jones’s allegations that Les Bleus would cheat at the scrum in their Six Nations clash on Saturday as a lack of respect towards his country.
Jones said he hoped France would not get away with bending the rules at the scrum.
“It’s a lack of respect towards our scrum, towards our team, towards French rugby, towards our nation,” Galthie told reporters after naming his team on Thursday for the game in Cardiff.
“In the first two matches, their scrum collapsed 13 times and was penalised six times. We were penalised four times,” the former France captain added.
France manager Raphael Ibanez backed his coach, saying his players had been working closely with referees to abide by the scrum regulations.
“It was a blatant, childish attack,” he told reporters. “Our reference person is the referee, not a rival team’s coach or player.”
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/wales-cheating-allegations-show-a-lack-of-respect-says-france-coach-fabien-galthie-1.4179676

If all you've got is "teams cheat at the scrum" you're on very thin ground. It's up there with the Pope's religion and the defecation habits of bears !!

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Post by maestegmafia on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 4:50 pm

The coaches love to get excited and deflect from their team

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Post by Guest on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 5:00 pm

Well Wyn Jones has done his job. The pressure is now on for a rookie referee. Whatever he thinks he will be under big pressure and with the home crowd also playing there part - like they did in Dublin and do in Paris - any 50:50s might just go Wales' way. The pressure is also on Wyn Jones and the Welsh scrum as well, though, as they have given the French motivation.


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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 5:18 pm

I'd say the referee, Test rookie that he is, might be more likely to award the penalty / free kick against Wales in any 50/50 situations, to show that he won't be influenced by pre-match talk like this.

I certainly don't think Wyn Jones should be applauded for what he's said. It is disrespectful, regardless of motive.


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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 5:20 pm

Yeah. Everything coming from wales suggests they're worried about the scrum. Good ref in charge though.

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 5:50 pm

Can't see them winning without Priestland.
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Post by chris_501 on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 6:01 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Can't see them winning without Priestland.

You should be happy that he'll be playing for Bath instead, I feel you need him far more than Wales do.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 6:45 pm

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-given-world-rugby-scrum-17784265

boxing

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Post by Guest on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 7:24 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'd say the referee, Test rookie that he is, might be more likely to award the penalty / free kick against Wales in any 50/50 situations, to show that he won't be influenced by pre-match talk like this.

I certainly don't think Wyn Jones should be applauded for what he's said. It is disrespectful, regardless of motive.

No you misunderstand.

He's simply put pressure on him. If Wales have the weaker scrum, which they do with Dillon Lewis in it, then any sort of pre-match pressure can cause him to second guess himself, and when that happens, it opens the door for it becoming more of a lottery and less 'Wales are clearly collapsing, penalty to France'. Applying probability to this before the fact is irrelevant. Each scrum will be decided on its own terms, now 'helped' with the pressure on the referee. If Wales have demonstrated they have a point regarding driving straight to him this week then it just helps their cause even more.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 7:35 pm

Good judgement from WR.  Clarifies much.  Maybe it was and maybe it weren't.  
"We Woznt on the field, see.  But like.... maybe Poite made a mistake there, it wouldn't be the first time Whistle
But please feel free to say 'maybe' in interview.  Yours sincerely, WR. OK "

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 8:26 pm

guestalt_physicality wrote:No one would have predicted France would beat England a few weeks ago.

Many did.

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 21 Feb 2020, 10:21 am

****BREAKING NEWS****

France coach Fabien Galthie has accused Wales of a "lack of respect" ahead of Saturday's Six Nations encounter. (BBC)

Prop Wyn Jones said he expected France's pack to "cheat" in their bid to gain scrum supremacy when the teams meet in Cardiff.

The Scarlets player expects France to bend the rules, saying: "We know they'll hit and chase and cheat."

"They don't have to say this sort of thing in the Six Nations," said Galthie.

"It's a lack of respect," he added. "A lack of respect for our scrum. A lack of respect for our team. A lack of respect for French rugby. A lack of respect for our nation.



Umm, this will happen in every game played this weekend across the globe. The only ones who don't see it are the Refs! Very Happy
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Fri 21 Feb 2020, 10:56 am

guestalt_physicality wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'd say the referee, Test rookie that he is, might be more likely to award the penalty / free kick against Wales in any 50/50 situations, to show that he won't be influenced by pre-match talk like this.

I certainly don't think Wyn Jones should be applauded for what he's said. It is disrespectful, regardless of motive.

No you misunderstand.

He's simply put pressure on him. If Wales have the weaker scrum, which they do with Dillon Lewis in it, then any sort of pre-match pressure can cause him to second guess himself, and when that happens, it opens the door for it becoming more of a lottery and less 'Wales are clearly collapsing, penalty to France'. Applying probability to this before the fact is irrelevant. Each scrum will be decided on its own terms, now 'helped' with the pressure on the referee. If Wales have demonstrated they have a point regarding driving straight to him this week then it just helps their cause even more.
 Don't patronise me, Miaow. I know what he's trying to do. 

My point is that this 'pressure' has been applied by one side, and the referee will be aware of that.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 21 Feb 2020, 1:08 pm

Been noticing the George North Brigade are a little defensive lately. I must have watched something different to them for the last 3 years or so.

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Post by Guest on Fri 21 Feb 2020, 1:09 pm

You're asking not to be patronised but yet you keep calling me miaow? Well you get what you give in life. If you want to troll me then make sure your own house is in order which it isn't. You misunderstood and you're judging it from the perspective of a fan where you really think the referee's motivation will be to 'prove' the media talk wrong. It just doesn't work like that.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 21 Feb 2020, 1:21 pm

The ref will be looking at all the welsh players coaches bricking it about the scrum and trying to point fingers. Wales havent been good there but they'll see the relative inexperience of France there and want to push their luck.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Fri 21 Feb 2020, 2:13 pm

guestalt_physicality wrote:You're asking not to be patronised but yet you keep calling me miaow? Well you get what you give in life. If you want to troll me then make sure your own house is in order which it isn't. You misunderstood and you're judging it from the perspective of a fan where you really think the referee's motivation will be to 'prove' the media talk wrong. It just doesn't work like that.

Unless you've worked as a referee (which you may have, I don't know), I'm not sure you're in a position to say 'it just doesn't work like that'.

To explain myself again, I'm saying that if he gets a 50/50 call, I think it may indeed cross his mind that one side has accused the other of cheating, and that the other hasn't felt the need to do so. 

I don't need you to agree with me, but don't tell me I don't understand.

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Post by The Oracle on Fri 21 Feb 2020, 3:09 pm

I think it’s a classic case of ‘could go either way’.
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Post by Dirtydave on Fri 21 Feb 2020, 4:23 pm

I'm so bored of media hype pre match these days...

Every prop cheats, everyone knows every prop cheats, in fact every forward cheats, at the set peice, at the breakdown, in open play...

This is all nonsense, Jones is frustrated because a decent Welsh scrum has been outthought in the 2 matches, they got a few shoves against ireland and Italy, and should've won penalties they conceded a few times...

To call jones disrespectful is ludicrous, he hasn't wiped his arse with a French flag, he's called the biggest playing position, in the most debatable area out pre match.

My big concerns are Tompkins being a liability again, and the very strange Welsh defensive structure! Sort those 2 out and wales could and should smother a rather inexperienced French team, if they don't they could get a tonking!

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Post by Guest on Fri 21 Feb 2020, 4:35 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
guestalt_physicality wrote:You're asking not to be patronised but yet you keep calling me miaow? Well you get what you give in life. If you want to troll me then make sure your own house is in order which it isn't. You misunderstood and you're judging it from the perspective of a fan where you really think the referee's motivation will be to 'prove' the media talk wrong. It just doesn't work like that.

Unless you've worked as a referee (which you may have, I don't know), I'm not sure you're in a position to say 'it just doesn't work like that'.

To explain myself again, I'm saying that if he gets a 50/50 call, I think it may indeed cross his mind that one side has accused the other of cheating, and that the other hasn't felt the need to do so. 

I don't need you to agree with me, but don't tell me I don't understand.

I have volunteered as both a referee and a coach but more importantly than that I am friends with a retired professional referee who still has contact with the modern game and we regularly talk all things rugby, many things I will not share with others for obvious reasons. That is where my experience of what a professional referee does in a match week comes from.

You unfortunately decided to disagree with my point which was very straightforward but I am now realising is a trend of hostility towards me on this forum as people have taken to thinking I am someone I am not. Had you been correct then the nitpicking might have been fine but as you were incorrec and misunderstood what I was saying (maybe deliberately who knows) it was worth telling you that you had misunderstood, which you didn't appreciate as clearly your motivation wasn't a discussion, but simply disagreeing for disagreement's sake. I am learning who these posters are since I've come back, and it's not always just the obvious ones.

In making this an issue this week in the media, the home crowd will now play a part, which will impact the inexperienced referee even more, as will the fact they have highlighted to him in the week whatever they have highlighted about 'painting the right picture' in Pivac's discussion with him. You made a point on the basis of an outsider, reading the media as if the referees sit at home, read Wyn Jones' statements, read the French retort, and say 'oh, that's not right, I will now punish Wales in any 50:50 scrums on this basis'. That's just not how it works. You could even just stop and think laterally for a few seconds and realise the personal motivations of the referee are to his performance review and not to 'showing up' Wales. He may be influenced by crowd pressure but the idea there is a pre-meditated desire to penalise Wales is, if you really think about it, the kind of nonsense we get fed in the media. Which as I said is a 'logical' conclusion of someone who experiences professional rugby through the media but in the words of Ellis Genge it tends to leave fans with some meaty opinions that don't hold too much relevance to reality!

This misfortune is the fact you cannot show even the most basic level of respect to me. You must really have hated miaow and several of you seem in need of him to abuse on this website which is pathetic beyond belief but in terms of you and I if you cannot show even the most basic level of respect then please don't act sanctimonious when others aren't willing to give you the time of day or if you feel patronised. If your intentions were more honest we wouldn't be having this discussion. But as another comment above shows about the prematch England v France predictions, some people simply love to derail for the sake of disagreeing and that effort would be better directed in to a more healthy strategy for coping with stress or frustration.

As Oracle says, it will go either way as it always would have done, but given that our scrum looks weak and has done for a while, this might just help if we're in a situation where we're camped on the tryline again. It has shone a spotlight on an area Wales are uncomfortable with and France have a history of bending the rules in. Using the media in this way, to draw the crowd in to the game and add pressure to the referee, means it's less likely that the scrums just slip away from Wales and we the kind of adjudication we have done from Poite and others where they tend to just favour a team early on and stick with it irrespective of the 'picture' being painted, as the common phrasing seems to be.

Either way I am more worried about our defensive line and scramble defence which were atrocious against Ireland. This could either be a high scoring classic or we could lose heavily. Or maybe we'll squeeze them out and use Gatlandball to frustrate them in an arm wrestle. Can't see it myself but you never know.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 21 Feb 2020, 4:38 pm

Shhh miaow.

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Post by Guest on Fri 21 Feb 2020, 4:40 pm

A perfect case study of the aforementioned can be seen above.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Fri 21 Feb 2020, 4:59 pm

guestalt_physicality wrote:In making this an issue this week in the media, the home crowd will now play a part, which will impact the inexperienced referee even more, as will the fact they have highlighted to him in the week whatever they have highlighted about 'painting the right picture' in Pivac's discussion with him. You made a point on the basis of an outsider, reading the media as if the referees sit at home, read Wyn Jones' statements, read the French retort, and say 'oh, that's not right, I will now punish Wales in any 50:50 scrums on this basis'.

A few things.

That's clearly not what I said. I don't know what good it does to misrepresent what I said when everyone can see it for themselves.

I'd also like to address this:

guestalt_physicality wrote:Well Wyn Jones has done his job. The pressure is now on for a rookie referee. Whatever he thinks he will be under big pressure and with the home crowd also playing there part - like they did in Dublin and do in Paris - any 50:50s might just go Wales' way.

I don't disagree with this at all. What I don't get is why my suggestion that any 50:50s might just go France's way is so controversial.

As for the rest, I'll let other posters make up their own minds about us.

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Post by Guest on Fri 21 Feb 2020, 5:25 pm

"To explain myself again, I'm saying that if he gets a 50/50 call, I think it may indeed cross his mind that one side has accused the other of cheating, and that the other hasn't felt the need to do so. "

I cannot see the misrepresentation myself.

Happy to leave it as it didn't even need to be started.

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