Wales vs France - Round 3 “Redemption”

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Post by maestegmafia on Mon 10 Feb 2020 - 10:13

First topic message reminder :

Getting your backside kicked and realising your faults can make you a far better and stronger team. Should you go on for a lengthy period without teams finding the flaws in your game you are likely to get a big surprise one day when said period ends..!

Ireland played really well last Saturday, they found flaws in wales defence and attack. I think we all knew our set piece hasn’t been world class but that has been the case for a long time.

Next we face the French, now one of only two teams who can claim a grandslam should their winning run continue and they look pretty handy. They neither look like the french teams of old, Sella, Penaud, Blanco and St Andre nor do they look like the recent sides of Vahmina, Basteraud and an endless stream of different flyhalfs.

Both teams are new to their coaches, both teams are looking to push on from their past and polish their game. France look better than this time last year, Wales maybe not so much...!

Sure going to be a great game.

Wales:

15. Leigh Halfpenny (87 Caps)
14. George North (93 Caps)
13. Nick Tompkins (2 Caps)
12. Hadleigh Parkes (27 Caps)
11. Josh Adams (23 Caps)
10. Dan Biggar (81 Caps)
9. Gareth Davies (52 Caps)

1. Wyn Jones (24 Caps)
2. Ken Owens (75 Caps)
3. Dillon Lewis (24 Caps)
4. Jake Ball (44 Caps)
5. Alun Wyn Jones (C) (136 Caps)
6. Ross Moriarty (43 Caps)
7. Justin Tipuric (74 Caps)
8. Taulupe Faletau (74 Caps)

Replacements:
16. Ryan Elias (11 Caps)
17. Rob Evans (37 Caps)
18. Leon Brown (8 Caps)
19. Will Rowlands (Uncapped)
20. Aaron Wainwright (20 Caps)
21. Tomos Williams (18 Caps)
22. Jarrod Evans (5 Caps)
23. Johnny McNicholl (2 Caps)


France

15. Anthony Bouthier (Montpellier)
14. Teddy Thomas (Racing 92)
13. Virimi Vakatawa (Racing 92)
12. Arthur Vincent (Montpellier)
11. Gaël Fickou (Stade Français)
10. Romain Ntamack (Toulouse)
9. Antoine Dupont (Toulouse)

1. Cyril Baille (Toulouse)
2. Julien Marchand (Toulouse)
3. Mohamed Haouas (Montpellier)
4. Bernard Le Roux (Racing 92)
5. Paul Willemse (Montpellier)
6. François Cros (Toulouse)
7. Charles Ollivon (Toulon) (c)
8. Grégory Alldritt (La Rochelle)

Replacements:
16. Camille Chat (Racing 92)
17. Jean-Baptiste Gros (Toulon)
18. Demba Bamba (Lyon)
19. Romain Taofifenua (Toulon)
20. Dylan Cretin (Lyon)
21. Baptiste Serin (Toulon)
22. Matthieu Jalibert (Bordeaux-Bègles)
23. Thomas Ramos (Toulouse)

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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 18:40

Ref needs to keep a cool head. Really good contest so far with players giving their all. I hope we don't see any clangers in the closing minutes.

Here we go... try or not? Looks like he lost control then regained it... but that's just me.
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Post by carpet baboon on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 18:45

And that's the game

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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 18:45

How do you get "a draw" with 4 points the difference? Commentator is an idiot.
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Post by carpet baboon on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 18:45

Bigger being a gobshite at the end

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 18:46

Best team definitely won today.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 18:46

Ref has lost control, he never had control of the breakdown all game though. Wish they’d trial him elsewhere.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 18:47

Well deserved for the French. Should take the Grand Slam from here.

Biggar’s behaviour has been pathetic all game. A shame the referee didn’t take a harder line of his and other Welsh players dissent during the match.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 18:47

Tompkins blaming others because he got turned over.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 18:48

Great win by France. ]

Very bad luck Wales so close yet just not good enough today.

France getting closer to the Grand Slam.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 18:50

majesticimperialman wrote:Great win by France. ]

Very bad luck Wales so close yet just not good enough today.

France getting closer to the Grand Slam.

Nah...a france team showing consistency...cannot be.

The school boy france will turn up at some point.....ha ha

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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 18:50

Congrats whocares. A well deserved win for your blokes. True grit shown. OK
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Post by tigertattie on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 18:51

GeordieFalcon wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Great win by France. ]

Very bad luck Wales so close yet just not good enough today.

France getting closer to the Grand Slam.

Nah...a france team showing consistency...cannot be.

The school boy france will turn up at some point.....ha ha

In two weeks vs Scotland

They’ll still win though
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Post by Dirtydave on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 18:54

Have to say, despite ref errors, that Wales deserved to lose. If your playing against a Sean Edwards defence, and you give that defence targets then you deserve an absolute smacking!

There were some poor decisions, but this game mimicked ireland, outplayed and out thought!

It's difficult watching Welsh players struggle with a simple high ball, and arguing over whet decisions to make....

Pivac has destroyed Gatlands legacy in under 3 games, and it's only a matter of time before fans turn!

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 18:55

GeordieFalcon wrote:Tompkins blaming others because he got turned over.

I think he was unhappy with the speed the tackler rolled away. Looked fine for me. There needed to be more support from the Welsh back three. He was looking for the pass when there wasn't one.

The antics were the end was bad sportsmanship. No need to go through and clatter the French kicker long after the kick was gone. Looked like the French players ensured the Welsh boys got a bit for that. The Welsh don't make themselves very likeable with the continual moaning at the ref, it's football antics and just not needed.

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Post by Barney McGrew did it on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 18:57

Deserved Man of the Match for Romain Ntamack - I remember how good his dad was.

A definite Moan of the Match for mouth-almighty Biggar - he'd wrapped that up by half time.

Still, if it hadn't been for the interception try - who knows
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Post by Dirtydave on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 18:57

Let's be honest, Tompkins has started 2 games and thrown both away....

Defensively beaten twice in the first, given the intercept pass in the second.

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Post by whocares on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 19:03

Well 10 years of pain almost  over : first win in Cardiff and first time in 10 years they have 3 consecutive wins in a row. Wasn’t always pretty and got some luck as well but that’s probably the only game I couldn’t see  how we could win this year . Kudos to the 2nd row who performed way better than what I ever thought (so South Africa could get some credit here).
Turning point was Ntamack intercept : that was worth 14 points not 7 and killed most of Wales momentum and dominance.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 19:17

I agree, Biggar was a bit OTT today, can tell he doesn’t like losing.

Congratulations whocares, you’re always a solid geeza on here despite being outnumbered Smile.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 19:22

Dirtydave wrote:Let's be honest, Tompkins has started 2 games and thrown both away....

Defensively beaten twice in the first, given the intercept pass in the second.

He was also Wales most threatening player. Some good nudges in behind and breaks. He isn't on the same wavelength as some of his colleagues though. You could tell that they just weren't anticipating what he was going to do when he stepped past a French player, even in the break at the end there's not the support to finish the move.

The intercept was just a brilliant read by Ntamack, that's a real skill and as already said a 14 point swing.

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Post by Hoonercat on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 19:24

Great game from a neutral point of view, this year's 6 Nations needed a pick-me-up. Biggar is a very good player but he lets himself down with his stupid antics, it's embarrassing to watch.  
Well done to France who have looked the best team by some margin this 6 Nations and commiserations to Wales who threw everything at the French and could have won the game in the final 10. Sadly, the ref's bias against Wales was evident from the very first French try when he failed to run across the pitch and trip himself in front of the try scorer, from there it was obvious the way this game was going to go. Smile

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Post by Dirtydave on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 19:32

Sam

He got involved in so much, and was to blame for the pick and go fiasco end of the first half.... Swatting gareth Davies away and playing the pass to biggar who got munched.

Ultimately, he butchered 2 try scoring breaks, struggled in defence 2nd gave france 7 points...

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 19:33

France played some great attacking rugby today. but credit to Wales for some great defence as well. If England beat Ireland tomorrow, i cannot see Ireland stopping France from getting the Grand Slam.

Why does Biggarr keep shooting his mouth off and why does the ref show a yellow card for disrespecting the ref in the first place?

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Post by Dirtydave on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 19:36

Majestic

I struggle to believe you know much about the game, when you compliment france attack despite offering nothing, 2 of the 3 tries came from nothing.

Also wales defence has, and did look absolutely awfull, narrow and offering yards without contact

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Post by Dirtydave on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 19:36

Majestic

I struggle to believe you know much about the game, when you compliment france attack despite offering nothing, 2 of the 3 tries came from nothing.

Also wales defence has, and did look absolutely awfull, narrow and offering yards without contact

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Post by Hoonercat on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 19:40

mikey_dragon wrote:I agree, Biggar was a bit OTT today, can tell he doesn’t like losing.

You'd think he'd be used to it by now Whistle
No player likes losing, it's not an excuse for acting like an arse.

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Post by Shifty on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 19:49

No complaints from me today, France were in the lead from the 7th minute onwards, and despite Wales fighting back, Wales always managed to do something stupid to let France keep control.  

The last few times we've played France for whatever reason they have been determined to lose the game, but not today.  Wales sadly look like a team in decline.  I'm actually concerned a good hammering at Twickers next up and everything Gatland has built could fall apart in spectacular style.  

In reality Wales should of been looking to win at least 3 games this season at the minimum.  Being realistic it looks like wins over Scotland and Italy who are basically the whipping boys of the tournament. With Wales looking like they've fallen away from Ireland, England and France as potential championship contenders.
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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 20:08

Pivac out Townsend in?

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Post by Guest on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 20:22

Very disappointing result but quite an enjoyable game I thought. It's nice in a way to see Wales playing topsy-turvy rugby again after the rigid game management we had under Gatland. It's more entertaining, anyway, even if the team looks a lot worse for it.

AWJ made a horribly call after the first yellow card. They should obviously have taken the 3 points but then making them play an extra 6-7 minutes might also have paid off as France clearly did wilt. The interception threw the game and Tompkins is both a great threat with ball in hand and a liability as a defensive player. He sums up what Wales are at the moment - a work in progress trying to transition to a more attacking game, but the final pass and understanding isn't there yet.

Moriarty was my pick of the forwards and Faletau played really well as well. I was surprised to see him taken off early.

France played the perfect game but Wales still had better game management. France kicked well, they were brutal in the 22s in attack and defence and conserved their energy in the middle of the park. They played some fantastic rugby at times and were very unfortunate with the forward pass. Yet Wales still had them under the thumb time and time again but failed to make them pay. One try from a dropped pass and another from a missed 3 on 1 (I think it was Wainwright) which resulted in Biggar probably dropping the ball over the line but getting the try anyway.

I have to say Wales are crying out for Gareth Anscombe. This gameplan clearly needs a heads up 10 who can run/kick/pass every time he gets the ball, and can control the game on the fly. Ntamack showed enough poise without being brilliant and Biggar for all his qualities is clearly the perfect outside half to close out a game but not to get the backs moving from the start. Considering Wales have Parkes and Biggar as out playmakers I think we will be a lot better with Anscombe back (and maybe Evans or Patchell improving as well so we're not reliant on Asncombe's fitness to play well) as well as a better 12 than Hadleigh Parkes. Particularly one who can both run hard and straight but also distribute. Tompkins looks like a livewire at 13 and might hold the shirt for the next 6 years if he tidies up his game so we could really do with a powerhouse 12 who can also play heads up rugby.

I worry we're heading towards a scrap with Scotland and ultimately ending up 5th with one win from Pivac's first tournament. The pressure is already on and that 2 year contract will be weighing heavily on the coaches if this sort of careless rugby costs them wins. I wonder what Gatland will think from the distance. Probably some regret but also a real sense of achievement and self assurance and maybe some schadenfreude at his Welsh detractors over the years. Anyway it is more entertaining as a fan playing rugby this way but it's also disappointing to see Wales lose. I think this game was a big mark in the 'negative' column for AWJ's captaincy credentials unfortunately. Particularly moaning at the ref after the TMO decision about the possible penalty try. I wonder how much frustration the Welsh players let out at the end is to do with where they are now without Shaun Edwards and Gatland and the confidence he gave them to just get the win.

France are definitely back and it would be good for the tournament if they win it.

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Post by Guest on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 20:38

Shifty wrote:No complaints from me today, France were in the lead from the 7th minute onwards, and despite Wales fighting back, Wales always managed to do something stupid to let France keep control.  

The last few times we've played France for whatever reason they have been determined to lose the game, but not today.  Wales sadly look like a team in decline.  I'm actually concerned a good hammering at Twickers next up and everything Gatland has built could fall apart in spectacular style.  

In reality Wales should of been looking to win at least 3 games this season at the minimum.  Being realistic it looks like wins over Scotland and Italy who are basically the whipping boys of the tournament.  With Wales looking like they've fallen away from Ireland, England and France as potential championship contenders.

You really just need to look at all of Welsh rugby from 2010-2020 and see that the national team was the exception. Everything else was in sharp decline. The regional game does not support the national team. The semi professional game does not support the regional game, and the amateur game is severely struggling to stay alive let alone thrive.

We have been fighting off the inevitable and a lot of that is to do with Gatland. Even then Gatland is a sign of the problem. No Welsh coach came close to being mentioned for the Welsh job. Dai Young? Who's just been sacked by Wasps? Stephen Jones was the only Welsh coach with credit in the bank and looks up to the job. The Welsh defence is absolutely awful and that's having profited from an English coach who is one of the best in the world. If we focus on what makes Welsh rugby Welsh rugby, there's just not a lot there. The national team will bounce back well enough to paper over the cracks but until we start caring about rugby as a whole including the clubs and the regions and coaching to a competitive level then we'll always be two steps behind the rest.

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Post by SecretFly on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 21:15

majesticimperialman wrote:France played some great attacking rugby today. but credit to Wales for some great defence as well. If England beat Ireland tomorrow, i cannot see Ireland stopping France from getting the Grand Slam.

Why does Biggarr keep shooting his mouth off and why does the ref show a yellow card for disrespecting the ref in the first place?

France are sharp, yep.  They are confident.  They are still in the running for the top prize three wins in.... so they ain't going to lose interest, like I was hoping they would have done by this stage.  And they'll be at home for the Ireland game.  Only a fool would say Ireland have an easy final week challenge....
.....but.....
.....we've stopped teams in their pomp and on a good run before.  A decent loss to England - i.e. a respectable performance if England play close to their top form - would still be hope enough that Ireland are finding a groove good enough to give them a chance of staying in the fight for the title.

On Biggar - I'd say his fiery passion keeps him mouthy and in a way I can tolerate it - even giggle at it - as long as the referee doesn't take his antics too seriously or allow himself to be influenced by Biggar's shenanigans.
The two people I was irritated by in terms of mood and tone and snarliness was Pivac and AWJ.  Neither was really in too much a mood to be gracious in defeat.  Yes, nobody likes losing but AWJ in particular, as Captain; -always that pained glowering expression in recent years - win or lose.  Blunt answers, curt goodbyes.

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Post by Guest on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 21:38

It's hard to say Biggar was wrong about the things he is 'mouthing off' about as well. Ollivon clattered in to him in the air which forced him to knock on even if Ollivon was pushed. A French player clearly ran in front of him when taking the quick mark which should have been a penalty. These things add up. I don't see Biggar mouthing off about decisions which are wrong in all honesty, only when he feels he isn't being given the right protection from a referee than all outside halves demand, or the referee has simply called it incorrectly.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 21:42

I do think Tompkins will be good player for Wales though.

Once they get used to the way he plays.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 21:45

Biggar is the typical marmite player. So similar to Farrell.

If he plays for your side...you like him. If he doesn't you get irritated by him.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 21:45

Reference Biggarr.

I truly believe (if, if ) Biggarr has any complaint ro make, he should make it too his captain, and his captain talk to the ref not Biggar.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 22:07

Wales coach Wayne Pivac believes referee Matt Carley made a wrong decision to not award his side a key second-half penalty try in the 27-23 defeat by France.

He just cannot accept his team was beaten by a better team. Crying or Very sad
He his just a sore loser. Shocked

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Post by JDizzle on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 22:21

I don't think it's time to start overly panicking yet for Wales! I have liked what they have been trying to do with the offloading game and shifting the ball an extra man before contact, which is what they need to do when you don't have the battering ball carriers someone like England have. We must have made more offloads in the past few games than the last few Gatland years!

Plus for as sharp as France looked, two of their three tries were slightly flukey. A bouncing ball from a contested kick which could have gone anywhere and an intercept, which whilst a great read from Ntamack, is not something that can be relied upon. Individual errors just costing Wales - it was the same vs Ireland too, with Tomos Williams dropping the ball under no pressure from a lineout etc.

No time to panic yet!

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Post by maestegmafia on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 22:55

Well done France.great to see them play so well. Finding their mojo a bit.

From a wales perspective not overly disappointed. Probably one of the best games of rugby I have seen in a while, certainly most of the crowd around us agreed too.

I like what Pivac is trying to introduce, it’s going to work but it’s not going to happen over night.

We all knew that though really didn’t we.

Good times for us all ahead. But great to see France finally play with a bit of bite for the first time in years

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Post by Pie on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 22:58

Google George North and concussion

Not sure hat it is about the big man but he has had far too many

I hav always thought him a little gun shy for a big lad, he's big but not super tough.

You wonder how many more he could/should take

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Post by maestegmafia on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 22:58

GeordieFalcon wrote:I do think Tompkins will be  good player for Wales though.

Once they get used to the way he plays.  

He needs a bit of coaching but he show some prospect and plenty of heart for the welsh cause. Time will tell. He has too many headless chicken moments at the moment and needs to settle down in a team rather than being a squad member like he has been at Saracens

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Post by maestegmafia on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 23:01

Dirtydave wrote:Majestic

I struggle to believe you know much about the game, when you compliment france attack despite offering nothing, 2 of the 3 tries came from nothing.

Also wales defence has, and did look absolutely awfull, narrow and offering yards without contact

He’s a glove puppet troll just ignore him. There is a setting you can use so you don’t have to read his posts.

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Post by SecretFly on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 23:13

Pie wrote:Google George North and concussion

Not sure hat it is about the big man but he has had far too many

I hav always thought him a little gun shy for a big lad, he's big but not super tough.

You wonder how many more he could/should take

Sometimes when you say things like that you can get accused of over-dramatising, of being 'irresponsible' in questioning a player's own decisions; decisions that are also based on sound medical advice.  
In short, often expressed concern for the welfare of certain players is read as dipping your nose into something that is none of your business.  

And then we have the ex-players with serious health issues - and we're all meant to both pity and admire these men and contribute to charities or foundations.
To me it's the one subject. Concussion, I believe, is still being regarded way too casually, and return-to-play 'protocols' are just in-the-present curtain-dressing solutions that won't protect against future health concerns of present day players.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 23:46

I'd be interested to know how the French evaluate the teams they faced at the end of the tournament. Wales looked more likely to grab a win than England, but France would have been more aware of their tendency to fade in the final quarter, so perhaps managed the game better. They slowed things down, which helped eat up a few valuable minutes.

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Post by Cyril on Sat 22 Feb 2020 - 23:58

Another 10 minutes in the France/England game and England would have won.

France are a good side at home but will struggle away against the best.

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Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Sun 23 Feb 2020 - 0:52

Another 10 mins and England would have lost the World Cup final by a record score.

Another 10 seconds and jfk would have passed the book suppository.

Another million votes and brexit wouldn’t be happening.


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Post by lostinwales on Sun 23 Feb 2020 - 1:45

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Another 10 mins and England would have lost the World Cup final by a record score.  

Another 10 seconds and jfk would have passed the book suppository.  

Another million votes and brexit wouldn’t be happening.


I'd guess its hard work to pass a book suppository, but then there are so many odd stories about JFK

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Post by RiscaGame on Sun 23 Feb 2020 - 4:31

Congrats to Whocares and France. Wales just a little to frantic at times and pretty wasteful again. Always going to be a disappointment to lose at home, even if France are looking pretty confident.

Pivac possibly in the nightmare position of having to hand LRZ his first cap, against England away. Should probably have blooded him against Italy, as some people have mentioned.

To be fair to us though, we were pretty poor and ultimately lost to two tries from our own mistakes. So I guess it’s not as bad as it seems yet.

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Post by Dirtydave on Sun 23 Feb 2020 - 4:53

After rewatching the game, I'm absolutely in shock at 2 things...

AWJ Sergio Parrisse style performance first 60 or so, sad to see he feels the need to drop deep etc..

And

Tompkins involvement! At various times he batted the 9 away from the ruck to play a pass, pushed a front rower into the ruck to carry alone, butchered a simple overlap, argued with his 10 and captain about penalty decision late first half, had an argument with his wing and FB about positioning, stepped in front of Biggar to play first receiver, and gave an intercept try away...

I have no words!

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 23 Feb 2020 - 7:44

maestegmafia wrote:
Dirtydave wrote:Majestic

I struggle to believe you know much about the game, when you compliment france attack despite offering nothing, 2 of the 3 tries came from nothing.

Also wales defence has, and did look absolutely awfull, narrow and offering yards without contact

He’s a glove puppet troll just ignore him. There is a setting you can use so you don’t have to read his posts.

Yep. Another one who must have nude photos of the Do Nothing Moderators.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 23 Feb 2020 - 7:51

Tompkins and McNicholl seem to be players who naturally play the way Pivac wants Wales to play, so I don’t imagine they’ll be going anywhere. This NZ blueprint will take a bit of time, NZ can do it so well as it’s their game, where as our guff regions often struggle to put phases together. So part of the problem doesn’t lie with Pivac - although he did hire Hayward and should get sh’t for that.

Next game Tompkins could feature on the wing. He looks good in attack at any position, not as good in defence though. This ‘game’ that Pivac wants us playing probably requires a second five-eight, which isn’t over 30 Parkes. It would be a shame to drop him, top guy and very consistent. I also think his best days are behind him, sadly.

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Post by TightHEAD on Sun 23 Feb 2020 - 8:32

AWJ is cooked, was an arrogant display from him yesterday.

As for Bigger! Well we all know it.
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