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The summer of cricket 2020

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 23 May 2020, 8:55 pm

First topic message reminder :

We have actual cricket news for the first time in forever...and some hope that we will see some test matches this summer!

England bowlers began a return to individual training on Thursday, with batsmen and wicketkeepers scheduled to make a return on 1st June, in anticipation of the West Indies series being rescheduled to begin on 8th July (all according to various reports).

There was also reports a few weeks back they might play some one day games, whilst tests are happening too. Not seen anything else about that, but with England’s depth in the shorter format it could be done you’d think players wise (and actually would present a good opportunity to some on the fringes)

ECB is going to confirm the full list of players who will resume training next week. Murmurings about Hales in the one day stuff don’t go away...

So anyways - let’s keep fingers crossed, and hope everyone who posts here is healthy and staying safe too Hug
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Post by Soul Requiem on Mon 06 Jul 2020, 2:13 pm

king_carlos wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:With regards to Broad, how many lefties are in the West Indies team? Last summer he was devastating against the left handers but far less so against the right handers, something to consider I would think. If we're dropping Anderson i'd be selecting Wood and going with a duel speed attack.
A fair point, Soul. Only one I can think of is Shimron Hetmyer. A very dangerous player but not the best red ball record it must be said.

Broad did look in good rhythm during the warm-ups though. I've often felt he's a bowler who finds his feet quick after a break which might stand him in good stead.

Hetmeyer hasn't toured; it would appear that John Campbell is the only left hander in the WI squad.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 06 Jul 2020, 3:13 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Also glad to see they've gone with Bess as the spinner to begin with - he certainly earned it with his performance in South Africa, and as stated both Leach and Ali really did not do their case any good with their performances in the warm up.

I think the real thing with Bess is his economy. he bowled a lot of overs for his wickets but since his debut has never gone for more than 3 an over, and has got progressively more and more tidy. Now some of that was undoutably helped by SA being collectively awful against spin(lets not forget Root was a whisker off a 5fer and Denly got his only test wickets there) and seamers taking wickets leading to SA often fighting to save the game. But thats the sort of situation we should expect this summer too, if West Indies ever reach 200/2 then something has gone horribly wrong. It might be a bit different if they were playing against Steve Smith on a flat wicket but really the bowler who can keep the pressure on and allow England to rotate their seam attack should be fine.
Ed Smith also talked up the "man in" ethos for the selections, which also makes some sense. Players should be forcing their way in to replace players who deserve to be dropped. In the case of Bess we have neither, whilst aside from one innings he looked about as threatening as a cold rice pudding he contributed to the victories and bowled with more consistency than we have seen from and England spinner in a long time. Leach and mos performances as you say only made the decision easier. Its rough on Leach in some ways, especially as unlike some others he wont be in the white ball camp, but he needed to make the case for inclusion if he wanted to force the spot. I still feel he's closer to the bowler England would want for the sorts of pitches they've struggled on in recent years, but this is a home summer against a rubbish batting line up. Bess should do just fine and continue to improve as a cricketer.
Its really not a selection anyone should be surprised or upset about f they've been following things even if they are a Mo fanboy or like me a bit Bessceptic.

In terms of Anderson I would be surprised if he plays all 3 tests, although that may depend on how many overs hes bowled. If WI fall over as easily as we might expect given how awful they are then he may be fine to go right through, but England have made it very clear they are carefully managing managing players workloads including in training. No more asking Archer to bowl 20 in a day hopefully, and again this is where having a reliable spinner is arguably more important than one who can conjure the odd magic ball.

Wood /Archer ... I'm still not sure who gets the nod of the two although Archer being given the new ball in the second innings of the warm up may indicate its him. They were given the same number of overs and finished with similar figures. Wood would be the "man in" and had a really good series in SA, so following that principle it should be him.
There will be rotation either way, but England did say that the selections of this test would be their first choices (Root aside) where possible, with reserves used later. So this is an interesting sub plot, whichever does get the nod is ahead in the selectors thinking.


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Post by Soul Requiem on Mon 06 Jul 2020, 4:55 pm

I get the feeling that once Anderson gets to 600 wickets he'll call it a day, could realistically get there during the WI series but with a three match series against Pakistan coming up he should get there by Summers end.

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Post by JDizzle on Mon 06 Jul 2020, 6:36 pm

It would definitely be fun to see the total death by pace attack of Archer, Wood and Stone at some point this summer too.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 06 Jul 2020, 10:41 pm

*looks at weather forecast for Wednesday and Thursday*

*cries*
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Post by alfie on Tue 07 Jul 2020, 5:27 am

JDizzle wrote:It would definitely be fun to see the total death by pace attack of Archer, Wood and Stone at some point this summer too.

The chances of all three ever being fully fit at the same time are roughly comparable with the prospect of Southhampton winning the Premier League next year...

In truth not necessarily a great idea for English conditions anyway. Is a nice thought though for a future tour of Australia , perhaps ?

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Post by alfie on Tue 07 Jul 2020, 5:29 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:*looks at weather forecast for Wednesday and Thursday*

*cries*

Predictable , no ? Even without looking at forecasts I had been assuming the worst...

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Post by alfie on Tue 07 Jul 2020, 5:35 am

Soul Requiem wrote:I get the feeling that once Anderson gets to 600 wickets he'll call it a day, could realistically get there during the WI series but with a three match series against Pakistan coming up he should get there by Summers end.

Not sure where you get that feeling , Soul. Certainly not from anything Jimmy has indicated.

He may well end up having to call it a day sooner than he'd like ( injuries , the disruption of the programme from the virus) ; but I doubt that is in his mind at the moment. Realistic or not , I fancy he hopes to continue another year or two ...not sure there is anything magical about 600 wickets for him that would make a difference either way.

The issue of rotation is interesting. For once the selectors do seem to have a large stable of fit alternatives and could actually field fresh bowlers one match to the next. Possibly the results of the first game will have a lot to do with what policy is followed...

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Post by JDizzle on Tue 07 Jul 2020, 7:39 am

alfie wrote:
JDizzle wrote:It would definitely be fun to see the total death by pace attack of Archer, Wood and Stone at some point this summer too.

The chances of all three ever being fully fit at the same time are roughly comparable with the prospect of Southhampton winning the Premier League next year...

In truth not necessarily a great idea for English conditions anyway. Is a nice thought though for a future tour of Australia , perhaps ?

Oh yeah - the chance of them all being fit to start a Test (never mind finish it fit) are tiny. But if Leicester can win the PL...

It’s more a fantasy of mine rather than thinking it would be best attack possible in the UK. But three 90mpg bowlers... That would be fun!

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 07 Jul 2020, 9:04 am

From the way they and the leadership have talked both Archer and Broad want to go on the next Ashes tour, but how realistic that is is questionable. I do think this summer will be make or break (almost literally for Anderson) but the decision will be based more on how his body if holding up than how passing arbitrary milestones.

Smith and Silverwood have also been quite clear on how important they see getting a stable of fast bowlers for overseas tests. Theres 5 with contracts of one sort or another and 4 in the current training group, so you'd hope they'd be able to get keep two fit enough to stick in the side at the time for the winter in India and the Ashes the year after all of them should be fully mature experienced bowlers and others may also be coming through. It would be very disappointing and a sign of some mismanagement if they havent got 3 quicks available for the Ashes.

Having 5 spinners in the wider squad is also a nice luxury looking ahead to that India tour. Leach and Bess bowling in tandem with the odd burst of Archer or Wood, a bit of Anderson magic and Stokes just being Stokes would give them all the options theyve lacked to make things happen in some previous winters.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 07 Jul 2020, 9:27 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:*looks at weather forecast for Wednesday and Thursday*

*cries*

To be fair, this rain will be the best sign that test cricket is back. Missing the first two hours of play because of rain, then going back on for 40 minutes before voluntarily coming off for a lunch break. Then a few spots of drizzle taking the players off for another hour, before the inevitable bad light suspension at 16:30 even though the floodlights are on. Test cricket will be truly back.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 07 Jul 2020, 9:44 am

The percentages for rain are pretty low so we shouldn't lose too much time. I suspect Broad and Anderson will be more interested in the cloud cover, another good toss to lose maybe? there should be lush grass around after the weather we have been having, you could colour me amazed if West Indies manage to post a big total with the batting they have against English bowlers in classic English conditions. Even if a few hours are lost it really shouldnt take 5 days.

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Post by alfie on Tue 07 Jul 2020, 10:00 am

Gooseberry wrote:The percentages for rain are pretty low so we shouldn't lose too much time. I suspect Broad and Anderson will be more interested in the cloud cover, another good toss to lose maybe? there should be lush grass around after the weather we have been having, you could colour me amazed if West Indies manage to post a big total with the batting they have against English bowlers in classic English conditions. Even if a few hours are lost it really shouldnt take 5 days.  

Perhaps I am being a little too cautious but I also wonder if England's batting lineup (sans Root) will be able to post a significant total against the West Indian pace attack in bowler-friendly conditions ? Maybe the New Order is more Test Match suitable than the Bayliss Era "Fix-bayonets and Charge" system but I am still reserving judgement for the time being...

Agree that , either way , it probably won't need 450 overs.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 07 Jul 2020, 10:06 am

alfie wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:The percentages for rain are pretty low so we shouldn't lose too much time. I suspect Broad and Anderson will be more interested in the cloud cover, another good toss to lose maybe? there should be lush grass around after the weather we have been having, you could colour me amazed if West Indies manage to post a big total with the batting they have against English bowlers in classic English conditions. Even if a few hours are lost it really shouldnt take 5 days.  

Perhaps I am being a little too cautious but I also wonder if England's batting lineup (sans Root) will be able to post a significant total against the West Indian pace attack in bowler-friendly conditions ?  Maybe the New Order is more Test Match suitable than the Bayliss Era  "Fix-bayonets and Charge" system but I am still reserving judgement for the time being...

Agree that , either way , it probably won't need 450 overs.

They did OK in SA which is a notorious graveyard in recent years against a similar level of attack and youd think with 4 patient openers they should be able to make it through a morning as well as anyone. I didn't see them racing to 500 in a day and half but I'm more optimistic about them being able to get to lunch on the first day with some specialist batsmen still in than I wouldve been this time last year.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 07 Jul 2020, 10:27 am

Wondering f the weather might sway Windies to give Reffier go, they can still include two quicks plus Holder and have a spin option from Chase. A bit of left arm swing gives some variation and if hes ever going to be a real threat its on a gloomy day with a green wicket and a dukes ball. Being able to hold a bat a nice bonus. I dont see much of a case for picking Cornwall and having to hide him in the field, as a general rule if you're relying on your spinner to get the wickets in England on a grey day then you're already losing.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 07 Jul 2020, 12:21 pm

...and speaking of Cornwall Sibley has apparently shed a lot of weight and really upped his fitness. Maybe a bit less padding if hes hit by a 90mph ball but should help his endurance over 5 days and mobility in the field.

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Post by king_carlos on Tue 07 Jul 2020, 1:03 pm

Gooseberry wrote:...and speaking of Cornwall Sibley has apparently shed a lot of weight and really upped his fitness. Maybe a bit less padding if hes hit by a 90mph ball but should help his endurance over 5 days and mobility in the field.
It was interesting reading that article. Good on the bloke. It will help his outfielding as well. He's a very good slip fielder but I've often thought he became a slip fielder for the same reason Rob Key and Flintoff did. I.e. their hatred of running rather than love of catching.  Laugh

Given that England have a strict and pretty high level that all their players must reach on the yo-yo test (that's a variation of the bleep test for those who remember the dreaded beeps from school) to be eligible for selection he must have still had some decent endurance for a guy who was carrying excess weight.

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Post by JDizzle on Tue 07 Jul 2020, 1:56 pm

I read Rob Key’s book recently - and he has some old school views on fitness. He essentially said he never tried hard in the first fitness test of a squad meet as all the staff cared about was getting better by the end. So he could then do what he wanted food and drink wise and just try in the final test and get a better result. Perhaps I understand why he didn’t play as much for England as he perhaps could have!

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Post by guildfordbat on Tue 07 Jul 2020, 2:11 pm

JDizzle wrote:I read Rob Key’s book recently - and he has some old school views on fitness. He essentially said he never tried hard in the first fitness test of a squad meet as all the staff cared about was getting better by the end. So he could then do what he wanted food and drink wise and just try in the final test and get a better result. Perhaps I understand why he didn’t play as much for England as he perhaps could have!

Hi JD - As old school myself, I'm hoping to get Key's book as a birthday present soon. Let's see!

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Post by king_carlos on Tue 07 Jul 2020, 2:16 pm

JDizzle wrote:I read Rob Key’s book recently - and he has some old school views on fitness. He essentially said he never tried hard in the first fitness test of a squad meet as all the staff cared about was getting better by the end. So he could then do what he wanted food and drink wise and just try in the final test and get a better result. Perhaps I understand why he didn’t play as much for England as he perhaps could have!
I get the impression from Key that he'd be the first to admit that as well with regards to Test opportunities. He's one of my favourite pundits these days. Very knowledgeable, personable and extremely passionate about the game at all levels. One of the good'uns.

I still think he should have toured Australia in 2007 with Vaughan injured. I accept it's ancient history now but against that bowling line-up put an excellent player of pace at 3 in Key, shift Bell/KP/Colly/Flintoff down a spot each then have Read at 8. Add depth to the batting lineup and given the weakness of our seamers that tour wouldn't have lost much by going with a 3 man pace attack.

Saj Mahmood is a lovely bloke but watching him bang mid 80 mph bouncers into flat Australian tracks against that batting lineup got painful pretty quick. Not that Harmison was in much better form that tour to be fair...

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Post by guildfordbat on Tue 07 Jul 2020, 2:18 pm

king_carlos wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:...and speaking of Cornwall Sibley has apparently shed a lot of weight and really upped his fitness. Maybe a bit less padding if hes hit by a 90mph ball but should help his endurance over 5 days and mobility in the field.
It was interesting reading that article. Good on the bloke. It will help his outfielding as well. He's a very good slip fielder but I've often thought he became a slip fielder for the same reason Rob Key and Flintoff did. I.e. their hatred of running rather than love of catching.  Laugh

Given that England have a strict and pretty high level that all their players must reach on the yo-yo test (that's a variation of the bleep test for those who remember the dreaded beeps from school) to be eligible for selection he must have still had some decent endurance for a guy who was carrying excess weight.

Very Happy clap

And before them, Botham and Cowdrey. Not sure where Ollie Milburn fielded but I don't picture him charging around the boundary unless on the back of a milk float! Wink

PS Cracking story yesterday about Everton Weekes, thanks. OK

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Post by guildfordbat on Tue 07 Jul 2020, 2:27 pm

king_carlos wrote:
JDizzle wrote:I read Rob Key’s book recently - and he has some old school views on fitness. He essentially said he never tried hard in the first fitness test of a squad meet as all the staff cared about was getting better by the end. So he could then do what he wanted food and drink wise and just try in the final test and get a better result. Perhaps I understand why he didn’t play as much for England as he perhaps could have!

I get the impression from Key that he'd be the first to admit that as well with regards to Test opportunities. He's one of my favourite pundits these days. Very knowledgeable, personable and extremely passionate about the game at all levels. One of the good'uns.

...


100% go along with that. He's particularly knowledgeable about the current county game unlike some of the bigger name pundits. Highly regarded as well by Surrey's management - Key's views of Graham Ford's time at Kent were canvassed and obtained prior to Surrey appointing Ford head coach.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 07 Jul 2020, 6:56 pm

Media reporting the bowling lineup is expected to be Anderson, Wood and Archer
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Post by JDizzle on Tue 07 Jul 2020, 8:12 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Media reporting the bowling lineup is expected to be Anderson, Wood and Archer

Broad not being selected for a Test at home vs the Windies when he is fit is it? What is the worst that could happen?

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/12527/scorecard/534207/england-vs-west-indies-3rd-test-west-indies-tour-of-england-2012

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 07 Jul 2020, 8:52 pm

9/1 on the West Indies seems generous. Do expect England to win, but I don't think the Windies chances' are that remote. Think it'll be a low-scoring test with two brittle batting line-ups starved of real match practice - surely bowl first for whoever wins the toss? Especially if tomorrow starts under heavy, dark cloud.

Would be surprised if Broad missed out at the expense of Wood, but Cricinfo aren't usually wrong. Seems as though the Windies will be selecting the spinner Cornwall, a large gentleman with a deceptive bowling action who once took 7/75 in a test innings (admittedly against Afghanistan), as well as the haunting figures of Hope, Chase, Dowrich and Holder who have all wreaked misery on England in recent times.

And it's just wonderful to have this sport, the best sport of all, returning.

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Post by JDizzle on Tue 07 Jul 2020, 8:59 pm

Jason Holder at 4/1 to be the Windies top bowler is very generous as well. He averages 18 since 2018. He won't open and Gabriel and Roach are good, but Holder is better.

England just don't lose series at home though. Obviously this series has some extenuating circumstances, but I can't see the Windies being the side to upset the apple cart. Especially with Kraigg's and Shai's terrible form since Headingley.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 07 Jul 2020, 9:09 pm

I actually quite fancy Holder to be the West Indies top run scorer in the first innings at 9/1, especially if he's going to be batting at 7 too. And agree with Duty, the match is a lot closer than WI being 9/1, because while their batting is rather bad, they do have a bowling attack that is very very good. And, I feel like it's gone a little under the radar, but England are missing their best batsman and captain for this test...

All the fat jokes aside, Cornwall is quite handy isn't he? Good first class record, apparently got bucket hands at slip (insert KFC jokes here) and can give it a wallop down the order with the bat (has regularly opened in t20s). Be surprised if he doesn't play, would seem unwise to just go in with Chase as the only spin option.

JDizzle - I was listening to the Cricviz podcast, and they were saying since that Headingley test, of top six batsmen to have played 30 innings in test cricket - Hope, Brathwaite and Chase all feature in the top six worst averages (KL Rahul the worst). In fact, those two hundreds remain Hope's only centuries in test cricket.
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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 07 Jul 2020, 9:56 pm

Apparently 51 home tests since he was last rested ! Whilst I've pointed to it being a possibility a few times I'm still a touch surprised to see them choosing to go with the dual pace attack for the first test given

9/1 on any team in a game thats likely to end in a result is pretty decent. Lot of pressure on Holder though, and Blackwood and they don't really have 5 batsmen.

In terms of Cornwall Olly I'd take the opposite view. His test wickets came against Afghanistan on spinner pitches son whilst he does have a decent reputation as a genuine spinner rather than slow bowler England on grey day with a green pitch isn't the best place for him. Refill is a much better bet for the conditions and can handle the bat too.  If Windies get to the point t where they are wishing they had a spinner they've probably already shipped too many runs to compete, as Lara days they need to win in 4 days if they are going to at all.

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Post by JDizzle on Tue 07 Jul 2020, 10:02 pm

Yep - I saw it posted on Twitter from CricViz about Hope and Braithwaite. Both averaging in the mid 20s since that Headingley game. It is odd, as Hope has developed into an excellent ODI batsman and whilst he will not ever hit those heights in Tests you’d expect better than an average in the 20s.

9-1 on a one Test punt is very generous. I presumed that was for the series. A Root-less England will be prone to a collapse.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 08 Jul 2020, 8:32 am

The more you look at the stats the worse it bodes for the West Indian batsmen really. They havent played an away test outside Asia in 2 and half years and a good chunk of the side has never played a proper red ball game in England. The Aussies are the only team who have come here and adapted well in recent years, and that was with a number of players doing stints in county cricket , previous tours and real focused preparation. Even then theres been a few top order players have their reputations trashed.

Braithwaite is the key man at the top of the order. The Headingly test was a bit of an aberration but he is the only one whos actually scored well in England, and averaged 47 in that series. Theres some handy all rounders and potential Tino's down the order but its not the level of England when they had Bairstow, Mo and Woakes and 7-9 to bail them out. Holders the only player who you'd hold up as a real star, but his not quite in the Stokes class as a batsman. He has been an absolute bogeyman for England though, unbeaten 101 and unbeaten 202 on their tours there ...so if he does get stuck in and has support he is capable. Only averaged 17 last time he was here though, those big scores came against reduced attacks on dead pitches with a kookabura where England were bowling a lot of spin.

Whoever gets the new ball (and from the warm up I assume Anderson and Archer) will be chomping at the bit to get stuck in. I really don't think England will mind to much if they are asked to bowl first, nor will the West Indies.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 08 Jul 2020, 8:48 am

If you fancy both teams to be a bit rubbish with the bat, SkyBet are offering a tempting 5/2 that both teams score fewer than 300 runs in their first innings.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 08 Jul 2020, 9:01 am

Given the conditions this morning that does seem a generous bet. 4 of the 6 tests in England last year went that way and Jason Roy didnt play all of them.

Weather suggests we might seem some interruptions but hopeful to start on time. Plenty of cloud and damp around so bring your umbrellas

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Post by KP_fan on Wed 08 Jul 2020, 9:26 am

Hello Everyone and good to see cricket will start somewhere in the world.
And even better that this start is with test cricket.
I wish things become good enuf soon to play some cricket in the passionate sub-continent too.

Hope WI can compete and we witness interesting games. If the conditions are likely to assist seam...then it will be a good toss to lose....be put in...and if you weather the first session and bat thru the day....you have the privilege of bowling 4th.

Stokes is captaining....I don't think its appropriate to burden your most mercurial all-rounder with captaincy.
But since Root is out....if not Stokes then who?
Since its stop-gap only.....I would have though Anderson or Broad.

But I read Broad may not even be picked Shocked
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Post by KP_fan on Wed 08 Jul 2020, 9:30 am

Duty281 wrote:If you fancy both teams to be a bit rubbish with the bat, SkyBet are offering a tempting 5/2 that both teams score fewer than 300 runs in their first innings.

I have gambled 5$ on WI.......could yield 40$ back.
They won't be able to chase even 150 in 4th inning...so I hope WI get to bat first
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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 08 Jul 2020, 10:17 am

Latest forecasts are a bit improved for tomorrow but they will probably lose a bit of this morning.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 08 Jul 2020, 10:43 am

Vaughn noting that its somewhat ironic Stuart Broad is likely not to play when hes the only person there with a parent watching

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 08 Jul 2020, 11:12 am

Duty281 wrote:9/1 on the West Indies seems generous. Do expect England to win, but I don't think the Windies chances' are that remote. Think it'll be a low-scoring test with two brittle batting line-ups starved of real match practice - surely bowl first for whoever wins the toss? Especially if tomorrow starts under heavy, dark cloud.

Would be surprised if Broad missed out at the expense of Wood, but Cricinfo aren't usually wrong. Seems as though the Windies will be selecting the spinner Cornwall, a large gentleman with a deceptive bowling action who once took 7/75 in a test innings (admittedly against Afghanistan), as well as the haunting figures of Hope, Chase, Dowrich and Holder who have all wreaked misery on England in recent times.

And it's just wonderful to have this sport, the best sport of all, returning.

Already could cash out for a profit on that 9/1 price Duty - a nonsense price...
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 08 Jul 2020, 11:17 am

Also would thoroughly recommend watching this segment Sky are doing on racism in cricket and Black Lives Matter. Michael Holding has been superb on the subject in particular.
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Post by Duty281 on Wed 08 Jul 2020, 11:22 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:9/1 on the West Indies seems generous. Do expect England to win, but I don't think the Windies chances' are that remote. Think it'll be a low-scoring test with two brittle batting line-ups starved of real match practice - surely bowl first for whoever wins the toss? Especially if tomorrow starts under heavy, dark cloud.

Would be surprised if Broad missed out at the expense of Wood, but Cricinfo aren't usually wrong. Seems as though the Windies will be selecting the spinner Cornwall, a large gentleman with a deceptive bowling action who once took 7/75 in a test innings (admittedly against Afghanistan), as well as the haunting figures of Hope, Chase, Dowrich and Holder who have all wreaked misery on England in recent times.

And it's just wonderful to have this sport, the best sport of all, returning.

Already could cash out for a profit on that 9/1 price Duty - a nonsense price...

Dare say we'll hold on for the inevitable England collapse!

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 08 Jul 2020, 11:32 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Also would thoroughly recommend watching this segment Sky are doing on racism in cricket and Black Lives Matter. Michael Holding has been superb on the subject in particular.
I've just switched on so missed that. Thanks for posting though Olly, I'll look it up later. Holding gets some stick as a pundit but I actually quite like him. There are a lot of batsman that become pundits but not as many pace bowlers I often think. It's a viewpoint I like.

Whilst I'd much rather be able to watch cricket without giving Murdoch my cash I do have to say that the Sky cricket coverage has been largely excellent since taking over from Channel 4.

That said, I'm not sure about the Big Brother diary room type set-up that Jimmy Anderson is currently chatting from!  Laugh

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 08 Jul 2020, 11:36 am

guildfordbat wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
JDizzle wrote:I read Rob Key’s book recently - and he has some old school views on fitness. He essentially said he never tried hard in the first fitness test of a squad meet as all the staff cared about was getting better by the end. So he could then do what he wanted food and drink wise and just try in the final test and get a better result. Perhaps I understand why he didn’t play as much for England as he perhaps could have!

I get the impression from Key that he'd be the first to admit that as well with regards to Test opportunities. He's one of my favourite pundits these days. Very knowledgeable, personable and extremely passionate about the game at all levels. One of the good'uns.

...


100% go along with that. He's particularly knowledgeable about the current county game unlike some of the bigger name pundits. Highly regarded as well by Surrey's management - Key's views of Graham Ford's time at Kent were canvassed and obtained prior to Surrey appointing Ford head coach.
He's always been really well regarded across county cricket has Key. Back when the England Lions used to be a more regular touring side there was a period where Key was consistently captaining them and doing a fair bit of coaching/mentoring with the younger players. He kept touring despite it being pretty clear he wasn't going to get an England recall due to his positive effect on young players coming through.

Hopefully he's recovering well from his recent hospitalisation.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 08 Jul 2020, 11:37 am

Murdoch sold his stake in Sky a little while ago, so no danger of that.

This delay is apparently down to a few spots of rain, which wouldn't be enough to take the players off if they were on. Frustrating isn't the word.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 08 Jul 2020, 11:41 am

king_carlos wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Also would thoroughly recommend watching this segment Sky are doing on racism in cricket and Black Lives Matter. Michael Holding has been superb on the subject in particular.
I've just switched on so missed that. Thanks for posting though Olly, I'll look it up later. Holding gets some stick as a pundit but I actually quite like him. There are a lot of batsman that become pundits but not as many pace bowlers I often think. It's a viewpoint I like.

Whilst I'd much rather be able to watch cricket without giving Murdoch my cash I do have to say that the Sky cricket coverage has been largely excellent since taking over from Channel 4.

That said, I'm not sure about the Big Brother diary room type set-up that Jimmy Anderson is currently chatting from!  Laugh

Yeah while I get the "free-to-air" want, I don't understand people who are against Sky's cricket coverage. It is absolutely superb on the whole, easily the best of the sports I watch and follow, and have been doing some great stuff during lockdown too.
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Post by Soul Requiem on Wed 08 Jul 2020, 11:51 am

I've always found the Sky coverage to be absolute garbage myself, have never taken to Atherton or Hussain while Ward and Key are just useless; they're both a pain in the arse but from a technical point of view Vaughan and Boycott are brilliant. The only worthwhile guys Sky had were Botham and Gower but oddly (not really, aiming to a younger generation with no attention) both have jettisoned, the less said about David Lloyd the better, he's a real embarrassment. I tend to think people are too easily drawn to a polished product that looks good and don't take much notice of the actual content.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 08 Jul 2020, 12:03 pm

In other news, cricket is being cricket again - for some reason they're taking "an early lunch" at 12:30, when you know, they could just do that now...especially as it's stopped raining...
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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 08 Jul 2020, 12:09 pm

Really frustrating not to get play, cant be doing the openers nerves any good.

Lots of opinions on who the west indies should play middle order, less so with England but does seem the pundits are n't 100% behind dropping Broad and the 3/4 selection.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 08 Jul 2020, 12:11 pm

It's warm, it's humid, it's not raining after only a bit of drizzle this morning, but we won't see any play until at least 13:30 because of 'early lunch' and how the toss still needs to be done.

I was only joking yesterday, I wasn't being serious! This game really doesn't help itself sometimes.

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 08 Jul 2020, 12:19 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:I've always found the Sky coverage to be absolute garbage myself, have never taken to Atherton or Hussain while Ward and Key are just useless; they're both a pain in the arse but from a technical point of view Vaughan and Boycott are brilliant. The only worthwhile guys Sky had were Botham and Gower but oddly (not really, aiming to a younger generation with no attention) both have jettisoned, the less said about David Lloyd the better, he's a real embarrassment. I tend to think people are too easily drawn to a polished product that looks good and don't take much notice of the actual content.
This may become a roundabout discussion as it seems I have a diametrically opposing view of everyone you've named there, Soul.  Laugh

I really like Atherton and Hussain. I think they are excellent pundits and very insightful. Some of the longer 'features' that Hussain's done have been brilliant. The KP interviews and his series looking at grassroots cricket in India in particular.

Lloyd I really enjoy. Knowledgeable about the game as a player, coach and umpire. I find his style entertaining but could understand others finding it grating.

Gower I enjoyed and thought did a good job in his anchor role. It was a shame he left Sky on poor terms it seemed.

Botham I adored as a player but found painful as a pundit. He always came across as someone who was only commenting on cricket because he didn't want to get a more strenuous job. Pundits often joked about Botham watching more golf than cricket and frankly it showed in his commentary. Similar to watching Clive Woodward in rugby desperately trying to drag discussion from the game in 2020 back to comparisons with the early noughties when he last watched rugby. I'd make a similar comparison with Jerry Guscott in that regard. Brilliant player but during the 6 Nations you get the impressions he's just read the last 3 months of newspaper rugby articles the night before so he can sound like he's watched Premiership rugby in the last decade.

As for the TMS guys. I've always enjoyed Boycott's shtick. A lot of it's an act but I find it amusing and underneath it there's a massive amount of knowledge and love for the game. Vaughan I feel has some interesting insights on commentary but outside of live reporting when giving interviews/soundbites he has a tendency to look check direction the wind's blowing then throw stuff in that direction to get clicks, regardless of whether he was throwing stuff in the exact opposite direction the week before!

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Post by Soul Requiem on Wed 08 Jul 2020, 12:34 pm

KC

I think a lot of that comes to the high production value of Sky Sports and with the segments Hussain is just a front for somebody else's work but as soon as he or Atherton are on commentary and they have to think for themselves their technical know how is limited which isn't all that surprising for a pair of ex players who were fundamentally flawed. Sangakkara for me showed up a lot of the Sky pundits when he started out, his knowledge and reading of the game is superb, for some reason someone's ability to read the game in front of them is now secondary to putting together a fancy segment in between sessions.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 08 Jul 2020, 12:56 pm

If we're looking at potentially a shortened game...and with weather around - do England consider going with an all seam attack? I presume it will make the decision on Cornwall for the West Indies if it does continue to rain...
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