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South Africa vs British and Irish Lions 7th August

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South Africa vs British and Irish Lions 7th August - Page 4 Empty South Africa vs British and Irish Lions 7th August

Post by RDW Sun 01 Aug 2021, 11:26 pm

First topic message reminder :

South Africa vs British and Irish Lions 7th August - Page 4 A_10                  South Africa vs British and Irish Lions 7th August - Page 4 Lions_10                
SOUTH AFRICA BRITISH & IRISH LIONS
Saturday 7th August
KO: 18:00 SAST / 17:00 UK / 02:00 Australia  Crying or Very sad
Cape Town Stadium
Sky Sports Main Event

TEAMS:

SOUTH AFRICA
A very large bunch of blokes.

WAZZER'S WIZARDS

15. Liam Williams (Scarlets, Wales) #833
14. Josh Adams (Cardiff Rugby, Wales) #836
13. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #824
12. Bundee Aki (Connacht Rugby, Ireland) #837
11. Duhan van der Merwe (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #841
10. Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints, Wales) #821
09. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #843

01. Wyn Jones (Scarlets, Wales) #842
02. Ken Owens (Scarlets, Wales) #829
03. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #818
04. Maro Itoje (Saracens, England) #825
05. Alun Wyn Jones – captain (Ospreys, Wales) #761
06. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, England) #826
07. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, England) #853
08. Jack Conan (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #839

16. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, England) #851
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England) #787
18. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, England) #814
19. Adam Beard (Ospreys, Wales) #852
20. Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, England) #849
21. Conor Murray (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #790
22. Finn Russell (Racing 92, Scotland) #835
23. Elliot Daly (Saracens, England) #822


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Post by Heaf Tue 03 Aug 2021, 10:12 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I'm in France with very little access to any media access bar the games, but thanks for your concern.

The player that gets man of the match is usually one of if not the best performer on the day, it's quite a common thing.

Perhaps they just thought he was the prettiest Whistle

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 04 Aug 2021, 7:57 am

BamBam wrote:If someone got one hand on a player while someone else tackles him, does one or both of them get the tackle? That’s different across sites, as one example

True. Constantly being the second man there will earn you a completed tackle. There are other times where you'll see a full two man tackle drive players back and put the attacking team under pressure. Context is key. A recent example if some people taking about nouns conceded by Watson and Curry in the 1st test. 3 vs 1 looks pretty bad for Curry until you see the first 2 for Curry then know that a caveat to pens conceded stats is that they only count when the ref has blown. A player or a team can infringe the laws while there is am advatnge being played and those 'pens' are not counted in the stats.

Basically don't use stats blind they make you look like an idiot.

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Post by chris_501 Wed 04 Aug 2021, 8:21 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:The suggestion to drop Itoje is an interesting one indeed....our best player in the 1st test and one of the better performers in the 2nd?

Anyway....lock is not an issue, both AWJ and Itoje were excellent for a half, they just need to keep this up for the full match.

I do have to laugh at this constant harping on about stats to prove a player's worth, it's rather amusing. Look at AWJ for example. I thought some of leadership qualities in the first half were great, he really got in the face of the SA and was physical throughout, this is what I want in a captain. I thought him and Itoje went really well, they just weren't backed up hugely by the rest of the pack.

It often makes me wonder if some people just check a stats site rather than actually watching a game sometimes, very odd.

This is why although I think as a leader of his team AWJ is phenomenal, Warburton was a better match captain. Getting on the good side of the referee is more important now than ever, and he was so good at it. On Saturday the ref was getting annoyed at the constant scuffles, and who was always in the middle of it? Alun Wyn!

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Post by MichaelT Wed 04 Aug 2021, 8:55 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Basically don't use stats blind they make you look like an idiot.

All the rubbish accompanying the statistics used has reminded me of these two quotes -

You can prove anything with statistics except the truth - George Canning

and

The man who makes no mistakes is the man who never does anything - Theodore Roosevelt

The second one is really apt sometimes when comparing to Curry and Itojes penalties.

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Post by RDW Wed 04 Aug 2021, 9:44 am

https://amp.rugbypass.com/news/why-duhan-van-der-merwe-keeps-getting-picked-for-the-lions/?utm_source=newsshowcase&utm_medium=discover&utm_campaign&utm_content

A different perspective on VDM

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Post by R!skysports Wed 04 Aug 2021, 9:53 am

RDW wrote:https://amp.rugbypass.com/news/why-duhan-van-der-merwe-keeps-getting-picked-for-the-lions/?utm_source=newsshowcase&utm_medium=discover&utm_campaign&utm_content

A different perspective on VDM

Interesting. I suppose like all things we see the mistakes / misses / co ck ups or big plays but rarely see (or put emphasis )on the other work and how it helps the team
I supose like the second rows doing the unseen gritty work

I was surprised that he was still in, but this does make sense

I expect I am still not going to be an international coach any time soon

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama Wed 04 Aug 2021, 10:08 am

RDW wrote:https://amp.rugbypass.com/news/why-duhan-van-der-merwe-keeps-getting-picked-for-the-lions/?utm_source=newsshowcase&utm_medium=discover&utm_campaign&utm_content

A different perspective on VDM

Over the series, when the Lions have kicked a contestable with Van der Merwe as or in the kick-chase unit, the Springboks are 0/11 in the air.

This is quite a remarkable fact, and something that goes a long way to explaining why he's still in the team this weekend!

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Post by doctor_grey Wed 04 Aug 2021, 10:40 am

MichaelT wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Basically don't use stats blind they make you look like an idiot.

All the rubbish accompanying the statistics used has reminded me of these two quotes -

You can prove anything with statistics except the truth - George Canning

and

The man who makes no mistakes is the man who never does anything - Theodore Roosevelt

The second one is really apt sometimes when comparing to Curry and Itojes penalties.
Considering your quote by Canning, I prefer the famous quote by Disraeli:
“There are three types of lies -- lies, damn lies, and statistics.”
― Benjamin Disraeli


and then this for a different, but very consistent take:

“Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are pliable.”
― Mark Twain

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Post by Rugby Fan Wed 04 Aug 2021, 12:18 pm

I've started feeling optimistic about the weekend. A lot of players failed to rise to the occasion in the Second Test. If some of them turn that around, and a couple of the new faces have decent games, then we'll be more competitive than that showing.


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Post by alive555 Wed 04 Aug 2021, 12:19 pm

one thing is pretty likely . SA wont be as fired up, and they wont be as good.

So all we need is for a similarly opposite effect on our side, and voila!

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Post by Old Man Wed 04 Aug 2021, 12:23 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:
RDW wrote:https://amp.rugbypass.com/news/why-duhan-van-der-merwe-keeps-getting-picked-for-the-lions/?utm_source=newsshowcase&utm_medium=discover&utm_campaign&utm_content

A different perspective on VDM

Over the series, when the Lions have kicked a contestable with Van der Merwe as or in the kick-chase unit, the Springboks are 0/11 in the air.

This is quite a remarkable fact, and something that goes a long way to explaining why he's still in the team this weekend!

That is not correct.

Watched Squidge rugby earlier, just from clips he showed Kwagga Smith took a few, I don’t have the correct stats as I haven’t researched them, but just watch the Squidge review of the second test and first test and it shows the pressure Kwagga Smith was under when he collected the ball and how the Bok tactics changed to support the Bok reciever from those Bombs.

It was a pressure cooker on VDM side, with both teams making plenty of knocks and pressurising the catchers

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Post by MichaelT Wed 04 Aug 2021, 1:52 pm

Just watched the Squidge rugby review of the second test. Murray does not come out of it well at all, Lawes gets focused on for one of the tries and called really lazy. Biggar even smacking his backside to get him to move across but Lawes doesn't. Not great. Its mainly about how South Africa changed tactics and manipulated a lot of what happened, through their own actions or inaction by stalling.

This Squidge does a great job of backing up his view of tactics through editing in footage from other matches. Its well done work whether you agree or not.

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Post by Old Man Wed 04 Aug 2021, 1:53 pm

Yeah love his analysis, he does talk a bit fast though

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Post by eirebilly Wed 04 Aug 2021, 2:15 pm

MichaelT wrote:Just watched the Squidge rugby review of the second test. Murray does not come out of it well at all, Lawes gets focused on for one of the tries and called really lazy. Biggar even smacking his backside to get him to move across but Lawes doesn't. Not great. Its mainly about how South Africa changed tactics and manipulated a lot of what happened, through their own actions or inaction by stalling.

This Squidge does a great job of backing up his view of tactics through editing in footage from other matches. Its well done work whether you agree or not.

I will say this until I am blue in the face, Murray is not the player he once was. He is about 2 years past his best. He was never the fastest 9 in the world with his distribution but it has gotten to pedestrian levels. He was crazy late to a couple of breakdowns in game 2 as well.

He is still a very good option to come off the bench and close out a game but in now way is he now a 9 that will threaten the opposition in attack.

As a Munsterman, love him to his bones but his time has come (and gone) for International starts.
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Post by doctor_grey Wed 04 Aug 2021, 2:55 pm

Agree about Murray. Always liked him because I thought he was one of the key players in the Lions series against Australia, and thought he and Corbs were absolutely immense in that third match. He does look slow now. But without question, he’s there for his brains and experience. Maybe he needs a double espresso before he comes on?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 04 Aug 2021, 4:33 pm

Hes like a small step up from Youngs these days.

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Post by protea438 Wed 04 Aug 2021, 6:39 pm

Oh well thats just typical and pretty predictable:


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Post by Collapse2005 Wed 04 Aug 2021, 6:56 pm

Well his star player was dropped on his head and his collar bone broken which took almost a year to heal. That said, who cares what he thinks anyway.

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Post by protea438 Wed 04 Aug 2021, 7:01 pm

You cant bitch and moan about someone if you are just as guilty, thats my issue

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Post by Old Man Wed 04 Aug 2021, 7:06 pm

Clive Woodward is just trying to remain relevant, anything to gain some attention

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 04 Aug 2021, 7:57 pm

It does seem a pattern that southern hemisphere teams think they should get away with stuff doesn't it.

World rugby does need to up the standard in the South and bring their citing process in line.

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Post by Old Man Wed 04 Aug 2021, 8:04 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:It does seem a pattern that southern hemisphere teams think they should get away with stuff doesn't it.

World rugby does need to up the standard in the South and bring their citing process in line.
Not so sure it is a SH issue, but I do think the end result of Rassie’s video will be twofold.

WR will have to punish Erasmus and they will have to standardise law protocols

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 04 Aug 2021, 8:11 pm

You sure? I'm normally a bit reluctant to base opinions on what you see on social media but the push back from the laws on here and in twitter certainly don't show a consistent approach to the laws.

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Post by Old Man Wed 04 Aug 2021, 8:32 pm

Well that the issue, WR has to realise the laws are getting too complicated and there are too many laws, it results in divided opinion on just about every facet of play.

It cannot be good for the image of the game.

Referees are under immense pressure, social media is simply exasperating the situation further, and surely it cannot be good for the players.

The way I see it NZ and Australia especially wants to officiate the game in a manner that suits “their style of play” South Africa is somewhere in between and Europe interprets the laws their way.

Only way you eliminte these contentious issues is simplification and reduction of laws and bylaws and get all referees on the same page

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Post by mikey_dragon Wed 04 Aug 2021, 9:06 pm

protea438 wrote:You cant bitch and moan about someone if you are just as guilty, thats my issue

Are you living in the Twilight Zone?

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Post by The Oracle Wed 04 Aug 2021, 9:19 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
protea438 wrote:You cant bitch and moan about someone if you are just as guilty, thats my issue

Are you living in the Twilight Zone?

Does Protea think somehow that Woodard is involved in rugby still?! Big difference between the current coaches having a moan and a guy who hasn’t been involved in rugby for close to 20 years. It would be like Rudolph Straueli having a say on this series and people harking back to stuff he said back in the early 2000s. Or, more accurately, Carel du Plessis if we’re talking Lions tours from yesteryear.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 04 Aug 2021, 10:51 pm

Old Man wrote:Well that the issue, WR has to realise the laws are getting too complicated and there are too many laws, it results in divided opinion on just about every facet of play.

It cannot be good for the image of the game.

Referees are under immense pressure, social media is simply exasperating the situation further, and surely it cannot be good for the players.

The way I see it NZ and Australia especially wants to officiate the game in a manner that suits “their style of play” South Africa is somewhere in between and Europe interprets the laws their way.

Only way you eliminte these contentious issues is simplification and reduction of laws and bylaws and get all referees on the same page

I mean I read that as Europe interprets the laws they way they want and they rest don't. Which i agree with.

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Post by Duty281 Wed 04 Aug 2021, 11:42 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/aug/04/warren-gatland-in-favour-of-extra-time-if-final-lions-test-ends-in-stalemate

Anyone for a nice bit of extra time if it's a draw?

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Post by doctor_grey Thu 05 Aug 2021, 1:08 am

Duty281 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/aug/04/warren-gatland-in-favour-of-extra-time-if-final-lions-test-ends-in-stalemate

Anyone for a nice bit of extra time if it's a draw?
Absolutely! Play as many extra time periods as it takes to find a winner. This is how I think all championships should be won, on the field of play.

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Post by eirebilly Thu 05 Aug 2021, 9:03 am

Again, and it may be just me but, I honestly do not feel that SA have been any dirtier than the Lions during the two tests so far. There could easily have been red cards shown to both teams.

There has been a few heated exchanges but that is just pure passion.

I cannot see that SA are deliberately going out to injure any Lions players and with the sole purpose of playing dirty, nor can i see the Lions doing it. Its just good old fashioned hard rugby and i have loved it.

The only thing that has left a sour taste in my mouth is the theatrics of certain players with the intent of getting a fellow professional carded. Both teams have been guilty of this as well. This needs stamping out more than anything.
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Post by Collapse2005 Thu 05 Aug 2021, 9:16 am

eirebilly wrote:Again, and it may be just me but, I honestly do not feel that SA have been any dirtier than the Lions during the two tests so far. There could easily have been red cards shown to both teams.

There has been a few heated exchanges but that is just pure passion.

I cannot see that SA are deliberately going out to injure any Lions players and with the sole purpose of playing dirty, nor can i see the Lions doing it. Its just good old fashioned hard rugby and i have loved it.

The only thing that has left a sour taste in my mouth is the theatrics of certain players with the intent of getting a fellow professional carded. Both teams have been guilty of this as well. This needs stamping out more than anything.

I dont think they were dirtier either at all.

I do think in the last test there were more moments for which they could have received red cards. Kolbe's tackles on Curry and Murray and Fafs tackle on Murray could have been red. In my view the Lions got the rub of the green with refs in the first test though so I have no really complaints.

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Post by MichaelT Thu 05 Aug 2021, 9:34 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Again, and it may be just me but, I honestly do not feel that SA have been any dirtier than the Lions during the two tests so far. There could easily have been red cards shown to both teams.

There has been a few heated exchanges but that is just pure passion.

I cannot see that SA are deliberately going out to injure any Lions players and with the sole purpose of playing dirty, nor can i see the Lions doing it. Its just good old fashioned hard rugby and i have loved it.

The only thing that has left a sour taste in my mouth is the theatrics of certain players with the intent of getting a fellow professional carded. Both teams have been guilty of this as well. This needs stamping out more than anything.

I dont think they were dirtier either at all.

I do think in the last test there were more moments for which they could have received red cards. Kolbe's tackles on Curry and Murray and Fafs tackle on Murray could have been red. In my view the Lions got the rub of the green with refs in the first test though so I have no really complaints.

I don't think they have been dirty games but they have not been good adverts for rugby. Everyone is crying out for something to grow the game - well the Lions is something that could be used to grow the game as it is so unique in team sports. now granted there's a lot more that other bodies could do to preserve and therefore develope it, but this style of play won't bring any good focus or coverage to demand that either. There's complaints about the Sky build-up, going on about 1997 or 1974 and the honour and history, trying to give it some gravitas but that match on Saturday was awful.

This tour is the same as 2005 for me. The Lions are going to need some kind of re-set for 2025, just like 2009 needed it.

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Post by eirebilly Thu 05 Aug 2021, 9:40 am

Test 2 was not a great advert, i will admit to that (possibly because the Lions lost, had they have won I am sure I would have seen it as a great match Very Happy ) but it was not that bad either. I have actually enjoyed both tests so far.

It is definitely building up to a great final test thumbsup
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Post by Old Man Thu 05 Aug 2021, 9:47 am

MichaelT wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Again, and it may be just me but, I honestly do not feel that SA have been any dirtier than the Lions during the two tests so far. There could easily have been red cards shown to both teams.

There has been a few heated exchanges but that is just pure passion.

I cannot see that SA are deliberately going out to injure any Lions players and with the sole purpose of playing dirty, nor can i see the Lions doing it. Its just good old fashioned hard rugby and i have loved it.

The only thing that has left a sour taste in my mouth is the theatrics of certain players with the intent of getting a fellow professional carded. Both teams have been guilty of this as well. This needs stamping out more than anything.

I dont think they were dirtier either at all.

I do think in the last test there were more moments for which they could have received red cards. Kolbe's tackles on Curry and Murray and Fafs tackle on Murray could have been red. In my view the Lions got the rub of the green with refs in the first test though so I have no really complaints.

I don't think they have been dirty games but they have not been good adverts for rugby. Everyone is crying out for something to grow the game - well the Lions is something that could be used to grow the game as it is so unique in team sports. now granted there's a lot more that other bodies could do to preserve and therefore develope it, but this style of play won't bring any good focus or coverage to demand that either. There's complaints about the Sky build-up, going on about 1997 or 1974 and the honour and history, trying to give it some gravitas but that match on Saturday was awful.

This tour is the same as 2005 for me. The Lions are going to need some kind of re-set for 2025, just like 2009 needed it.

I agree on your thoughts gentlemen, to me the British and Irish Lions has history and a lot of pride goes along with it.

Unfortunately winning in the professional era has become the be all and end all. Lions test series should be a celebration of rugby, which in essence should be about flaunting rugby skills, it should be a barbarian style test series where both teams celebrate teheir ability to entertain crowds.

Regardless of how this series have gone down with all the off field stuff, in my mind it is still the most anticipated test series event that takes place for those countries involved.

If we can somehow get the coaches to buy into it the way we want to see it celebrated the Lions series will remain the most popular test series event for a long time in the future.

Ech nation that the Lions visit bring their own unique challenges, the South Africans bring physicality, the Wallabies bring skill (well they historically do) and the All Blacks the ultimate balance between physical prowess and skill

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Post by TightHEAD Thu 05 Aug 2021, 10:03 am

Come Saturday evening the only positive I will take from this series win or lose is that we would have seen the end of Gatlands involvement with the Lions, Townsend too hopefully.
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Post by The Oracle Thu 05 Aug 2021, 10:06 am

The beauty of the Lions for me is in the struggle to put together a team from 4 countries and try to make them competitive against traditionally 3 of the top sides in the world (Aus having slipped a little of late). I read a lot of Facebook comments on rugby pages (e.g. Rugby Onslaught who really winds the SA fans up!). Lots of banter, but one thing that's always thrown out is 'you can't beat us with the best of 4 countries. Pathetic'. Or words to that effect. But that misses the point for me. Taking the best of 4 countries does not necessarily mean they will be better than the sum of their parts. Otherwise the BaaBaas would be the best side in the world hands down, or at least when they used to pick top players. But we know that they seldom were. Plus, the 4 B&I nations are rarely at the top of the world rankings. Never have we all been 1-4 in the rankings, so combining the sum of the parts of nations ranked anywhere from 4th-9th in the world doesn't mean they should be beating no.1. But that's the challenge. And that's what I love about the Lions. Go on tour, get a group of players who have not played together, try to get them to learn a new gameplan, do it away from home against rugby super powers, get some tour games under the belt against increasingly difficult opposition (president select XVs, semi pro sides, clubs sides, national A side) and then hope that you can challenge in the tests. That's it. That's the challenge. And that challenge hasn't changed in all the years of Lions tours. It's a huge task and something unique to the Lions in pro sport. It should be celebrated but increasingly cancel culture means people want it gone because they feel it is a weird fit in the modern game, or that it ruins their players, or that it upsets their world cup cycle. But I agree with Old Man that it should be a celebration of rugby. The problem is that if they are not competitive, if they throw it around like the BaaBaas and get hammered by well drilled SA/NAZ/Aus sides, then it begins to feel like the BaaBaas and loses its edge. It becomes a bit of a joke (like the BaaBaas has recently. Sorry!). And then that strengthens the calls to remove it and, like the BaaBaas, it loses a bit of relevance. I'd like to see it continue but we need to find the balance between putting on a show for the world and being competitive against very strong and proud opposition who are hell bent on not letting this scratch team of 'invaders' embarrass them on their home soil!
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Post by Old Man Thu 05 Aug 2021, 10:16 am

Yeah, unfortunately every cluntry have those supporters that embarrasses the rest of their countrymen, the reality is tjose supporters coming up with “your four countries can’t beat one country” aren’t true rugby followers, they most likely have never played the game and learnt about the respect rugby players have for their opponents.

Maybe not all of them fall into this generalisation, but I know what it is like to brawl with opponents, tackle them and get tackled by them, facing a tighthead and trying to analyse his scrumming technique in those opening scrums.

once you have experienced those on field battles and then come off the pitch to share a beer with the guy you just went hammer and tongs with teaches you a lot about being a decent human being.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 05 Aug 2021, 10:21 am

For me, both games have been niggly so far, lots of things let go on the 1st test, the 2nd test was a farce and we can only blame Rassie Erasmus for that. South Africa took ages to do anything on the 2nd test.

Physically, SA have not been any different to how they have always been, they have always been very physical to say the least and borderline dirty. That might upset Old Man, sorry.

But it was the taking of extra minutes to set up at the line outs, taking ages to set up for the scrums, just dragging things out in general, running in en mass when they wanted to cause a break with handbags.

That is a side to rugby that I do not want to see, and I hope we do not see it Saturday.

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Post by Collapse2005 Thu 05 Aug 2021, 10:30 am

eirebilly wrote:Test 2 was not a great advert, i will admit to that (possibly because the Lions lost, had they have won I am sure I would have seen it as a great match Very Happy ) but it was not that bad either. I have actually enjoyed both tests so far.

It is definitely building up to a great final test thumbsup

I enjoyed the second test myself. It was tense and at times enthralling. Yeah it would have been better if the Lions won but SA with two clever kicks took their chances and we did not. I thought the complaints about SAs second try was total nonsense. Despite the score I think there is nothing between the sides really.


Last edited by Collapse2005 on Thu 05 Aug 2021, 10:35 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Old Man Thu 05 Aug 2021, 10:32 am

Will definitely not agree with the Boks being dirty, as for the slowing the match down.

Yes, I hate teams slowing the game down, Argentina used to be a big exponent for slwing matches down against us, it frustrated the living daylights our of me.

But I fully understand why the Springboks did it this past weekend, and it had everything to do with the fact that their training was delayed due to the covid cases in the Bok team where half the guys went intoisolation after the Georgia test.

in essence Nienaber had to “buy time” during the SA A match the Boks ran out of steam after 30 minutes, in the first test they ran out of steam after 40 minutes.

Whilst they were building matchfitness they knew progress would not just happen in one or two tests, they needed to buy as much time as they could for recovery.

Gatland will obviously bring that to theattention of the referees this weekend, and the Boks will most likely still try to have intermittent rest periods during the game.

These are all tactics teams use for different reasons.

This is different times unfortunately, Covid has provided many challenges during this series, each team face their own challenges, the Lions being isolated from families, friends, in a foreign country rife with lockdowns, little opportunity to explore what make these tours great.

South Africa to a lesser extent isolated, and most challenging of all, facing an opponent that has more depth, is much fitter and better prepared.

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Post by Collapse2005 Thu 05 Aug 2021, 10:34 am

LordDowlais wrote:For me, both games have been niggly so far, lots of things let go on the 1st test, the 2nd test was a farce and we can only blame Rassie Erasmus for that. South Africa took ages to do anything on the 2nd test.

Physically, SA have not been any different to how they have always been, they have always been very physical to say the least and borderline dirty. That might upset Old Man, sorry.

But it was the taking of extra minutes to set up at the line outs, taking ages to set up for the scrums, just dragging things out in general, running in en mass when they wanted to cause a break with handbags.

That is a side to rugby that I do not want to see, and I hope we do not see it Saturday.

SA slowed the pace intentionally and it worked for them. Its up to our leaders to recognize that and put pressure on the ref to speed things up. We cant have any complaints really.

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Post by bsando Thu 05 Aug 2021, 12:43 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Come Saturday evening the only positive I will take from this series win or lose is that we would have seen the end of Gatlands involvement with the Lions, Townsend too hopefully.

What has Toonie done wrong?

Oddly despite all the football like media coverage and press conferences (and whatever Rassie was up to) I’ve been really impressed with the squad itself. It’s been well balanced and hopefully the final test will be a Classic. There seems to be a real togetherness and an abundance of leadership from this Lions squad across all four nations. For me at least it shows why the Lions has to have a balance and not just be the best of one nation with the others filling in the gaps.

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Post by alive555 Thu 05 Aug 2021, 12:59 pm

bsando wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Come Saturday evening the only positive I will take from this series win or lose is that we would have seen the end of Gatlands involvement with the Lions, Townsend too hopefully.

What has Toonie done wrong?

Oddly despite all the football like media coverage and press conferences (and whatever Rassie was up to) I’ve been really impressed with the squad itself. It’s been well balanced and hopefully the final test will be a Classic. There seems to be a real togetherness and an abundance of leadership from this Lions squad across all four nations. For me at least it shows why the Lions has to have a balance and not just be the best of one nation with the others filling in the gaps.


The tactics have been warrenball and to box to kick from 9 all day long, and it looks like thats whats on the menu for the weekend again

Lets face it Russell is simply an emergency option when the kick chase game once again inevitably fails!

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Post by Tramptastic Thu 05 Aug 2021, 1:29 pm

alive555 wrote:
bsando wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Come Saturday evening the only positive I will take from this series win or lose is that we would have seen the end of Gatlands involvement with the Lions, Townsend too hopefully.

What has Toonie done wrong?

Oddly despite all the football like media coverage and press conferences (and whatever Rassie was up to) I’ve been really impressed with the squad itself. It’s been well balanced and hopefully the final test will be a Classic. There seems to be a real togetherness and an abundance of leadership from this Lions squad across all four nations. For me at least it shows why the Lions has to have a balance and not just be the best of one nation with the others filling in the gaps.


The tactics have been warrenball and to box to kick from 9 all day long, and it looks like thats whats on the menu for the weekend again

Lets face it Russell is simply an emergency option when the kick chase game once again inevitably fails!

Theres nothing wrong with a good kicking game, the intention often being to create a disrupted defensive line and attack the gaps that inherently open up, but a good attacking kicking game still needs to played at pace to keep the defense guessing. Its what Scotland showed could be achieved in the six nations with a kicking game, the only reason it failed in this 2nd test was ponderous pace - by the time the kick went up the boks were set and could defend the kick quite easily. Hopefully with Price restored at 9 the pace should pick up and the kicking game will be more effective! Fingers Crossed

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Post by 123456789. Thu 05 Aug 2021, 4:01 pm

I'm not sure we have seen that South African team play as well as they did last saturday, it would be some achievement if they managed to play that way again. I don't think they will. If the Lions finally play to their potential then they will win.

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Post by RiscaGame Thu 05 Aug 2021, 4:18 pm

123456789. wrote:I'm not sure we have seen that South African team play as well as they did last saturday, it would be some achievement if they managed to play that way again. I don't think they will. If the Lions finally play  to their potential then they will win.

There's certainly not as much pressure as last week on SA, given that the pressure is now equal on both sides (now both can't afford to lose). Lions did at least have the safety net of holding a lead last week. The build up is less full of drama (thus far) too, so there may not be as much of a us against the World mentality too.

I struggle to imagine we can be as unlucky with bounces etc this week. I would also have expected the back three to have been better, even without changes. I don't think Internationals would normally experience that many dropped balls, which makes me think again luck wasn't on our side.

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Post by Old Man Thu 05 Aug 2021, 4:25 pm

Pressure changes everything, intensity as well, if the Boks can sustain pressure throughout the 80 minutes it will be a challenge for the Lions

I also think with Reinach (he was my first choice) behind the rucks we will see a better balance in sniping, running and kicking.

I suspect we will also play more off Pollard with Faf not there, so the ball will be distributed more.


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Post by doctor_grey Thu 05 Aug 2021, 6:10 pm

Many of the Lions will be familiar with Reinach from his time in the Premiership. Unfortunately they really didn’t stop him much.

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Post by bsando Thu 05 Aug 2021, 6:17 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
123456789. wrote:I'm not sure we have seen that South African team play as well as they did last saturday, it would be some achievement if they managed to play that way again. I don't think they will. If the Lions finally play  to their potential then they will win.

There's certainly not as much pressure as last week on SA, given that the pressure is now equal on both sides (now both can't afford to lose). Lions did at least have the safety net of holding a lead last week. The build up is less full of drama (thus far) too, so there may not be as much of a us against the World mentality too.

I struggle to imagine we can be as unlucky with bounces etc this week. I would also have expected the back three to have been better, even without changes. I don't think Internationals would normally experience that many dropped balls, which makes me think again luck wasn't on our side.

I kind of got the impression that the high ball was a big focus point in the build up to the second test and perhaps that had an effect on the players psyche heading into the test. Any player will probably do a better job when playing instinctively rather than over analysing a game situation. However, I think Hogg can be a bit hot and cold with certain aspects of his game as can L Williams, Halfpenny, Daly etc so it's just how it goes. Hopefully Williams will come in and have a great game and help the Lions win. DVDM may be hopeless under he high ball again but if he gets ball he'll be able to do what he does best and hopefully get the team over the line. Himself and Adams were my preferred wing combo during the warmups and seemed to gel really well together.

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Post by The Oracle Thu 05 Aug 2021, 8:56 pm

Not trying to get excuses in early, but for some of the replacements it will be around 3 or 4 weeks since they last played! Will they be a bit undercooked, or just well rested? What’s a reasonable ‘lay off’ before it makes you start to lose match fitness? Nothing to worry about?
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