World Cup losers Playoff 2023 - The unwanted game - England v Argentina

First topic message reminder :

England Team:

15 M Smith
14 F Steward
13 J Marchant,
12 M Tuilagi
11 H Arundell;
10 O Farrell (c),
9 B Youngs;

1 E Genge (vc),
2 T Dan,
3 W Stuart,
4 M Itoje,
5 O Chessum,
6 T Curry,
7 S Underhill,
8 B Earl.

Replacements: J George, B Rodd, D Cole, D Ribbans, L Ludlam, D Care, G Ford (vc), O Lawrence.

Smith is a luxury player.

Give me ford any day.

Underhill and Curry work so well together still.

No 7&1/2 wrote:He's our best fly half by a distance but Borthwick is we'd to his kicking game hence Farrell is our first choice. Smith did the basics as well yet because everyone know what he can do he gets dismissed when he plays within himself by instruction. It's frustrating. When he was below par with Jones he was top scorer in the 6ns.

No...no he's really not

Geordie wrote:Smith is a luxury player.

Give me ford any day.

Ford or Farrell are both still class. Ford in particular still wasted with being made to kick so much ball away.

Geordie wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:He's our best fly half by a distance but Borthwick is we'd to his kicking game hence Farrell is our first choice. Smith did the basics as well yet because everyone know what he can do he gets dismissed when he plays within himself by instruction. It's frustrating. When he was below par with Jones he was top scorer in the 6ns.

No...no he's really not

He can do it all.

But unlucky there for Argentina seeing as Earl is off his fet already at the ruck.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Geordie wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:He's our best fly half by a distance but Borthwick is we'd to his kicking game hence Farrell is our first choice. Smith did the basics as well yet because everyone know what he can do he gets dismissed when he plays within himself by instruction. It's frustrating. When he was below par with Jones he was top scorer in the 6ns.

No...no he's really not

He can do it all.

And yet just stood miles back and barely took a step forward before passing inside to Steward. Really poor from Smith then in the flyhalf position.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Geordie wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:He's our best fly half by a distance but Borthwick is we'd to his kicking game hence Farrell is our first choice. Smith did the basics as well yet because everyone know what he can do he gets dismissed when he plays within himself by instruction. It's frustrating. When he was below par with Jones he was top scorer in the 6ns.

No...no he's really not

He can do it all.

And yet just stood miles back and barely took a step forward before passing inside to Steward. Really poor from Smith then in the flyhalf position.

He plays how he wants his coach to play and gets criticised!

That's miles forward

Forward surely.

Looked a forward pass to me early doors in that move.

Wayyyyyy forward. They even checked it and let it go

How on earth can that not be called forward?

That is embarrassing from ref and tmo.

Of course no replay as WR really don't want anything getting criticised hence getting more criticism throughout the tournament. I do hope things go back to normal after this.

Impressive by Smith there....

No 7&1/2 wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Geordie wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:He's our best fly half by a distance but Borthwick is we'd to his kicking game hence Farrell is our first choice. Smith did the basics as well yet because everyone know what he can do he gets dismissed when he plays within himself by instruction. It's frustrating. When he was below par with Jones he was top scorer in the 6ns.

No...no he's really not

He can do it all.

And yet just stood miles back and barely took a step forward before passing inside to Steward. Really poor from Smith then in the flyhalf position.

He plays how he wants his coach to play and gets criticised!

That's BS I'm afraid. Given two men outside and an inside runner you want you flyhalf to be bossing that bad taking it towards the line before picking the pass. It was on the 22 exactly where Smith wants to be on the ball, it was poor. No excuse. From the turnover that follows Argentina launch the lengthy attack from which they score.

Looked more like it there though, skipping between players. More like a back three player...

Pretty impressive first half performance. Does anyone remember 1 of our wingers receiving a pass?

Ben Whitehouse strike again - that was more forward than a forward thing on national forward day ....

Why did Smith kick that. Obviously going to be marked and end of half.

Then a pointless kick to nothing from Smith after a decent little carry. Currently looks a better player when playing as a fullback than when he slots in as the playmaker.

mountain man wrote:Why did Smith kick that. Obviously going to be marked and end of half.

If you're going to kick at least take the punt at the drop goal.

That was unbelievable! If you want a dictionary definition of a forward pass, that was it!! What on earth were they looking at???

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Geordie wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:He's our best fly half by a distance but Borthwick is we'd to his kicking game hence Farrell is our first choice. Smith did the basics as well yet because everyone know what he can do he gets dismissed when he plays within himself by instruction. It's frustrating. When he was below par with Jones he was top scorer in the 6ns.

No...no he's really not

He can do it all.

And yet just stood miles back and barely took a step forward before passing inside to Steward. Really poor from Smith then in the flyhalf position.

He plays how he wants his coach to play and gets criticised!

That's BS I'm afraid. Given two men outside and an inside runner you want you flyhalf to be bossing that bad taking it towards the line before picking the pass. It was on the 22 exactly where Smith wants to be on the ball, it was poor. No excuse. From the turnover that follows Argentina launch the lengthy attack from which they score.

Looked more like it there though, skipping between players. More like a back three player...

I mean lol. I know you're a huge fan of Ford but these tactics even make him look like Mike tyndall stepping in as first receiver.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Pretty impressive first half performance. Does anyone remember 1 of our wingers receiving a pass?

Couldn’t even tell you who you have on the wings

formerly known as Sam wrote:Then a pointless kick to nothing from Smith after a decent little carry. Currently looks a better player when playing as a fullback than when he slots in as the playmaker.

Again it's the blooming tactics I've been criticising for 9 months!how come you're only bothered when it's by the player you're trying to talk down so you can talk Ford up!?criticise Borthwick and Wigglesworth.

Rather inevitable. Arundell gets start but don't think he's touched ball yet.

Well, they could have told us forward passes are now part of the game

tigertattie wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Pretty impressive first half performance. Does anyone remember 1 of our wingers receiving a pass?

Couldn’t even tell you who you have on the wings

I don't think Arundell has touched the ball yet. He's half ar$ed some kick chases and stood off a tackle or two and that's it.

Steward has been more involved but mainly because he's doing his Air Steward thing.

Give it another 15-20 mins of this and then Borthwick might encourage them to attack more as Argentina tire. That would be in line with the type of thing he did with Tigers.

tigertattie wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Pretty impressive first half performance. Does anyone remember 1 of our wingers receiving a pass?

Couldn’t even tell you who you have on the wings

A slow full back and a guy with 5 tries in the tournament. Arundell would be on about 20 tries in the Scotland team too.

Genuinely...how do the TMOS not see that is forward??!!

tigertattie wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Pretty impressive first half performance. Does anyone remember 1 of our wingers receiving a pass?

Couldn’t even tell you who you have on the wings

This ain't League?

Is Ben Whitehouse Jonker's protegee? Or maybe they both go to an incompetent optician?

No 7&1/2 wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Then a pointless kick to nothing from Smith after a decent little carry. Currently looks a better player when playing as a fullback than when he slots in as the playmaker.

Again it's the blooming tactics I've been criticising for 9 months!how come you're only bothered when it's by the player you're trying to talk down so you can talk Ford up!?criticise Borthwick and Wigglesworth.

It's not the tactics, the ball has come back messy and he's panicked. The attack is split left and right with a playmaker either side to try and pressure the defence. Bit rugby league style. Smith has struggled in that set up so far. He's looked better standing outside of Farrell and attacking slightly wider.

It's messy ball but again he's stood deep and then kicked it away rather then laying it off to a runner or going for the drop kick.

It's not the same attack as 9 months ago, mainly because Wigglesworth was still an employee of Tigers at that point.

Whitehouse is bloody useless. Imagine if this was the final instead of a lot less meaningful match.

Good to see Underhill back. His tackling is as brutal as ever

Geordie wrote:Genuinely...how do the TMOS not see that is forward??!!

At the time I presumed the TMO had checked it properly and it was one of those that just looked a bit forward but was then flat on review but nope the TMO has made a real mess of that one. Not sure he'll enjoy the review with the assessor next week.

But you can bet he'll still be allowed to carry on being useless ...

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Then a pointless kick to nothing from Smith after a decent little carry. Currently looks a better player when playing as a fullback than when he slots in as the playmaker.

Again it's the blooming tactics I've been criticising for 9 months!how come you're only bothered when it's by the player you're trying to talk down so you can talk Ford up!?criticise Borthwick and Wigglesworth.

It's not the tactics, the ball has come back messy and he's panicked. The attack is split left and right with a playmaker either side to try and pressure the defence. Bit rugby league style. Smith has struggled in that set up so far. He's looked better standing outside of Farrell and attacking slightly wider.

It's messy ball but again he's stood deep and then kicked it away rather then laying it off to a runner or going for the drop kick.

It's not the same attack as 9 months ago, mainly because Wigglesworth was still an employee of Tigers at that point.

Fair I supposed when you see how free flowing we are with Farrell and Ford at 10.

All I'll say is as long as they are consistent... (who am I kidding...)

So Woodward has demanded Steward on thw wing all tournament...and now says get him back to fulll back lol

Is the ref going to allow them to run straight beyond the ruck all match?

Bad defence that.

Well at least we get a try straight back.

Nice response

Ha! That'll do as a response to missing tackle.

Have that!!!!!

Cumbrian wrote:Bad defence that.

Really poor missed tackle from Dan. Immediately makes up for it though.

Well that was a ying and Yang couple of minutes

Youngs is so far off the pace now.