Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread

[Geordie]

First topic message reminder :

2 tries for Hartley at 12 .

Fdjour decent first scrum then missed some tackles etc.
Sales two wingers Reed and Roebuck were very impressive....

Bath v Cardiff now...lots of potential England options here.

[Geordie]

Crikey ive just read that about Rees Zammitt....

[mikey_dragon]

Is the England squad announced soon?

[No 7&1/2]

Think that confirms Feyi-Waboso will be in England squad, not named for Wales. Bet Gatland wishes he had seeing as LRZ has jumped ship.

Car crash.

Yeah huge kick in the guts for Wales there. I read comments from Woodward in relation to England's policy that he would resign if forced to ignore foreign based players...Gatland may well be thinking something similar. Though after how his stint in NZ went he may feel a bit trapped.

[No 7&1/2]

Tomorrow I think mikey.

[king_carlos]

Squad announcement tomorrow. Midday I believe.

[Mr Bounce]

9.55

[No 7&1/2]

Good news that Smith looks to be in the England squad then. And you'd imagine probably Roebuck who will suit us.

[Geordie]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/01/16/england-six-nations-squad-jamie-george-captain-feyi-waboso/

George to be named Captain...

Roots and Waboso in...Spencer looks to be in. Dingwall also...

[Cumbrian]

Looking at the Scotland squad, it looks like Fin Smith is sticking with us. I've heard James Roebuck is going to be in the squad too.

[Cumbrian]

Good news that Smith looks to be in the England squad then. And you'd imagine probably Roebuck who will suit us.

I really should look up the page before I type...

[No 7&1/2]

God I hope so.many saints just means they will play off the hoof at least in the first couple of games. Ignore the plan of Wigglesworth and just go with club.

Have to say Muir is just not up to this level. Decent club play but reminds me of a slightly worse Bassett.

[mountain man]

I thought before George wwould get captaincy, he seemed the obvious candidate. Feyi-Waboso a bonus as most definitely Fin Smith.

Is full list available as the Telegraph article behind pay wall?

[lostinwales]

I thought before George wwould get captaincy, he seemed the obvious candidate. Feyi-Waboso a bonus as most definitely Fin Smith.

Is full list available as the Telegraph article behind pay wall?

Not currently behind the paywall but doesn't have a full list - just tasters

[mountain man]

I thought before George wwould get captaincy, he seemed the obvious candidate. Feyi-Waboso a bonus as most definitely Fin Smith.

Is full list available as the Telegraph article behind pay wall?

Not currently behind the paywall but doesn't have a full list - just tasters

Odd I try and it says "to continue to read article log in or start free trial"

Anyway, actual squad announced tomorrow so I can wait.

[formerly known as Sam]

God I hope so.many saints just means they will play off the hoof at least in the first couple of games.

Saints don't play off the hoof. They play a multi phase attack utilising multiple playmakers to make it difficult for the defence to number up and target the attacking fulcrum. Often using ploys like running Fin Smith round to the openside behind a pod of forwards for a standard out the back move just as Furbank makes a run to blindside with supporting runners, targeting a potential short numbered defenders.

[No 7&1/2]

God I hope so.many saints just means they will play off the hoof at least in the first couple of games.

Saints don't play off the hoof. They play a multi phase attack utilising multiple playmakers to make it difficult for the defence to number up and target the attacking fulcrum. Often using ploys like running Fin Smith round to the openside behind a pod of forwards for a standard out the back move just as Furbank makes a run to blindside with supporting runners, targeting a potential short numbered defenders.

No quite right Sam. They'll definitely prepare for situations and try to assess if a risk is worth taking. Crap wording by me.

[Geordie]

Took this from elsewhere...

Going to be a weird 6N.

England with no Farrell or Youngs, France with no Dupont, Ireland with no Sexton, Wales with no fly half and Scotland with no Scotsmen.

[Mr Bounce]

England Six Nations squad
Forwards: Ollie Chessum, Dan Cole, Alex Coles, Luke Cowan-Dickie, Chandler Cunningham-South, Ben Curry Theo Dan, Alex Dombrandt, Ben Earl, Ellis Genge, Jamie George (capt), Joe Heyes, Nick Isiekwe, Maro Itoje, Joe Marler, Beno Obano, Tom Pearson, Ethan Roots, Will Stuart, Sam Underhill.

Backs: Oscar Beard, Danny Care, Elliot Daly, Fraser Dingwall, Immanuel Feyi-Waboso, George Ford, Tommy Freeman, George Furbank, Ollie Lawrence, Alex Mitchell, Tom Roebuck, Henry Slade, Fin Smith, Marcus Smith, Ben Spencer, Freddie Steward.

[mountain man]

England with no Youngs isn't weird it's progress. And at times given his variable form same could be said for Farrell. *

*yes fully aware original was done as humour.

[No 7&1/2]

No Sinckler but Joe Heyes. Wow.

Beard in. Dingwall. Feyi-Waboso. 3 fly halfs, so assuming Marcus is full back again. Roebuck. Roots. Coles.

[Mr Bounce]

Isiekwe as the potential "Big 6"?

No Sinckler or Ludlam. No Baxter, no Barbeary. And no Cokanasiga, which, considering his current form, I find a bit odd.

[mountain man]

C-CS - excellent. Assume no Barbeary due to upcoming ban. Feyi-Waboso bonus. Slade, Furbank better produce if picked for team.
No Billy, result.
Ben Spencer? Deserved after so long.

[No 7&1/2]

Ludlam is injured isn't he. Couple of options for 6 but very much looks like it's going to be a bruiser. Roots, Isiekwe, Martin, Coles, Cunningham-South would all fancy their chances.

[mountain man]

No Sinckler but Joe Heyes. Wow.

Beard in. Dingwall. Feyi-Waboso. 3 fly halfs, so assuming Marcus is full back again. Roebuck. Roots. Coles.

3 scrum halfs, Care, Mitchell and Spencer.

[mountain man]

In fairness Borthwick has picked squad on form pretty much for clubs.
So, likes of Furbank, Slade and Dombrandt need to prove it if in 15/23 match squad.

Overall I'm happy with that squad. Just see who gets dropped and whose left for 6N.

[Mr Bounce]

Where is George Martin?

[Geordie]

Very happy with the squad...a few i wouldnt pick but i can understand why he has.

No mistake about Sinckler ...thats good.

[mountain man]

I have seen little of Oscar Beard, any views here on him?

[Geordie]

Where is George Martin?

he has a knee injury apparently...

[mountain man]

Very happy with the squad...a few i wouldnt pick but i can understand why he has.

No mistake about Sinckler ...thats good.

Yeah agree about Sinckler, no loss to be honest. Seeing as he's off anyway then even more reason not to pick but primarily he shouldn't be in purely on performance.

[Mr Bounce]

Where is George Martin?

he has a knee injury apparently...

That's a shame. Isiekwe is solid, and Coles is performing well though.

[Geordie]

Position breakdown:
LP: Genge, Marler, Obano
HK: Cowan-Dickie, Dan, George
TP: Cole, Heyes, Stuart
LK: Chessum, Coles Isiekwe, Itoje
FL: Curry, Earl, Pearson, Roots, Underhill
N8: Cunningham-South, Dombrandt
SH: Care, Mitchell, Spencer
FH: Ford, F. Smith, M. Smith
IC: N/A
OC: Beard, Dingwall, Lawrence, Slade
WG: Daly, Feyi-Waboso, Freeman, Roebuck
FB: Furbank, Steward

[Poorfour]

I have seen little of Oscar Beard, any views here on him?

For the past few seasons he's been a promising academy back who hasn't looked quite ready for senior rugby. He has the speed and strength (like a larger version of Murley), but had a bit of a tendency to try to do it all himself when it wasn't on. This season his decision making has improved hugely, and he's having a real impact. Injuries to Joseph and Northmore gave him a run at the 13 jersey for Quins, but he has done well enough that they are going to have to fight hard to get it back.

It's a bit of a surprise to see him in the England squad so early, but this squad looks like a mixture of old hands to give a stable base for 2024 and players who are being developed for 2027, and in that context he is definitely one to develop for the future.

[Geordie]

Where is George Martin?

he has a knee injury apparently...

That's a shame. Isiekwe is solid, and Coles is performing well though.

Coles is playing very well....ive said i can see a "mobile lock" going in at 6.
4 Itoje, 5 Chessum seems set now...

So 6 is between Isiekwe and Coles. Maybe CCS getting a run from the bench for some experience...

[No 7&1/2]

In fairness Borthwick has picked squad on form pretty much for clubs.
So, likes of Furbank, Slade and Dombrandt need to prove it if in 15/23 match squad.

Overall I'm happy with that squad. Just see who gets dropped and whose left for 6N.

Bar a couple.

[Geordie]

Seems George Martin, Manu Tuilagi, Anthony Watson, Raffi Quirke and Jack van Poortvliet are included as part of a rehabilitation group.

[Mr Bounce]

I am guessing that Barbeary was seen as a bit of a risk, especially given his recent cards. Big Joe was a known quantity and had his flaws as demonstrated in the RWC warm ups. Sinckler has lost all form. There is probably something about Zach Mercer that SB doesn't like. Maybe he'll end up captaining the A team given the Gloucester link? I have put the happy pills down as Billy has been pensioned off (finally!). Painter I am guessing was not showing as having enough all round game and/or fitness.

Pleased to see CCS, Fin Smith and Beno Obano given their chances. And it's good to see Joe Heyes back.

[mountain man]

Of those omitted, Murley and Sleightholme probably feel hard done by. Radwan was never getting in squad!

[mikey_dragon]

Feyi-Waboso in, and Gatland never even bothered to speak to him. Nice one lads.

[Poorfour]

Of those omitted, Murley and Sleightholme probably feel hard done by. Radwan was never getting in squad!

Murley's injured.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

I watched the Exeter games in recent times (Saints and Glasgow) that have been televised, I can't remember Painter ever getting his hands on the ball, even at very short range. Strange as he used to do a bit ball in hand at Saints.

If a lock does go to 6, then there is a very tough decision of the 7, Curry, Earl, Pearson, Roots, Underhill. Although Earl and Pearson do play 8 when required.

I am surprised Dombrandt is in the squad thought he had had his chance, he doesn't seem to be doing anything different now, still looks plump, slow to get up and reset, and shies away from hard going. Cunningham-South, not seen much of him, but what I have seen he looks like one for the future rather than now. I think it will be Earl at 8 with Underhill at 7. If a genuine back rower is picked at 6, then Pearson or Curry.


The backs will be interesting, I think Dingwall certainly and possibly Lawrence are in as 12s, I know nothing of Beard, but I assume a 13 along with Slade. Freeman of course can play 13 as well.

I suspect Furbank is a bencher, covering 10 and 15, gives you a chance to be creative with the rest of the bench.

[lostinwales]

Bets we'll see Isiekwe in at 6 for the first game after which he'll be dropped.

[Geordie]

Of those omitted, Murley and Sleightholme probably feel hard done by. Radwan was never getting in squad!

heard that Sleightholme will be in the A sqaud.

[Geordie]

I watched the Exeter games in recent times (Saints and Glasgow) that have been televised, I can't remember Painter ever getting his hands on the ball, even at very short range. Strange as he used to do a bit ball in hand at Saints.

If a lock does go to 6, then there is a very tough decision of the 7, Curry, Earl, Pearson, Roots, Underhill. Although Earl and Pearson do play 8 when required.

I am surprised Dombrandt is in the squad thought he had had his chance, he doesn't seem to be doing anything different now, still looks plump, slow to get up and reset, and shies away from hard going. Cunningham-South, not seen much of him, but what I have seen he looks like one for the future rather than now. I think it will be Earl at 8 with Underhill at 7. If a genuine back rower is picked at 6, then Pearson or Curry.


The backs will be interesting, I think Dingwall certainly and possibly Lawrence are in as 12s, I know nothing of Beard, but I assume a 13 along with Slade. Freeman of course can play 13 as well.

I suspect Furbank is a bencher, covering 10 and 15, gives you a chance to be creative with the rest of the bench.

Well the only thing i can get from his inclusion is that SB (contrary to what EVERYONE seems to suggest) is open to a more mobile style with the 8 as a fulcrum using his offloading etc. Purely a thought...we shall see.

[No 7&1/2]

If Borthwick abandons is kick everything no matter what philosophy then brilliant. The pick of players like Dombrandt alone don't signal that however as he was picked during the last 6 nations but asked to play a very different game than his club one.

[carpet baboon]

Have England actually picked a 12? Or are they all 13s who part time at 12?
I'm I going to have to spend the whole 6ns telling you (with the squad that's been picked) to play steward at 12?

There MUST be an actual out and out 12 somewhere in England?

[formerly known as Sam]

Looking at the squad it looks like one of Roots or CCS will be at 6. Big, powerful guys that can jump in the lineout and get through a load of work. If only Hanro Liebenburg was EQ.

Barbeary may well have been included were it not for his likely suspension. Shame no Fisilau or Warr. The injury to George Martin is a real shame as he's been playing really well, Tigers have said it's a short term injury so he might be back quickly with any luck though another knee injury isn't good.

[Geordie]

Have England actually picked a 12? Or are they all 13s who part time at 12?
I'm I going to have to spend the whole 6ns telling you (with the squad that's been picked) to play steward at 12?

There MUST be an actual out and out 12 somewhere in England?

Not a single 12.

It'll be a roving centre pairing...switching depending on plays and attack & defence.

I think it'll be Lawrence and then between Dingwall and Slade who partners him.

Hopefully Hartley really puts his stamp down for Saracnes over the next 6-12 months.

[formerly known as Sam]

Have England actually picked a 12? Or are they all 13s who part time at 12?
I'm I going to have to spend the whole 6ns telling you (with the squad that's been picked) to play steward at 12?

There MUST be an actual out and out 12 somewhere in England?

Dingwall is a 12. Even when he wears 13 he seems to line up at 12 (particularly in defence) for Saints.

[Geordie]

Looking at the squad it looks like one of Roots or CCS will be at 6. Big, powerful guys that can jump in the lineout and get through a load of work. If only Hanro Liebenburg was EQ.

Barbeary may well have been included were it not for his likely suspension. Shame no Fisilau or Warr. The injury to George Martin is a real shame as he's been playing really well, Tigers have said it's a short term injury so he might be back quickly with any luck though another knee injury isn't good.

Hes in the "rehab group" Sam..so could be called up if fit...think its SB playing the system so to speak.

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