Ireland v England - Six Nations Round 4, 9 March 2024

First topic message reminder :

Ireland supremely confident of having any answers to questions that England will pose, according to Bernard Jackman.

Stephen Jones wants lots of bish and bosh and no training.  Stuart Barnes wants Ben Earl in midfield.  Dallaglio wants them to get in some players faces and annoy them a lot.

Farrell doesn't know yet if he'll have Ringrose and Keenan back to consider for squad selection and thus the make up of his bench for 6-2 or 5-3.

Borthwick has two players back for his half-back partnership and the opportunity to continue with Furbank at 15.

No real shots have been fired yet but it's only Monday.

Teams

England
Furbank, Feyi-Waboso, Slade, Lawrence, Freeman, Ford, Mitchell
Genge, George, Cole, Itoje, Martin, Chessum, Underhill, Earl
Dan, Marler, Stuart, Cunningham-South, Dombrandt, Care, Smith, Daly

Ireland
Keenan, Nash, Henshaw, Aki, Lowe, Crowley, Gibson-Park
Porter, Sheehan, Furlong, Beirne, McCarthy, O'Mahony, vd Flier, Doris
Kelleher, Healy, Bealham, Henderson, Conan, Baird, Murray, Frawley

wow

Best win since NZ 2019?

I think I need a lie down...

Come on 7.5. If England keep on playing like this then surely you can get past the Borthwick hate?

Italy beat Scotland and England best Ireland - just need Wales to beat France now ... I think someone had a bet on that ...

Well deserved England.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I do have to admit. I'm a bit annoyed as that secures Borethick a run of games until the AIs.

Your constant moaning really does ruin this board.

Just checking but thought England were going to possibly end up 6th?

If we'd have played with that intensity all tournament, we'd be going for the slam next weekend...

lostinwales wrote:Come on 7.5. If England keep on playing like this then surely you can get past the Borthwick hate?

Borthwick sets England up very well in the biggest games, I think it's fair to say.

Great performances against SA (just fell short) and Ireland today.

If England can win in Paris next week, Borthwick is secure until 2027.

A marvellous win. Delighted with that.

The blitz defence did such a good job of preventing Ireland going through phase after phase like they usually can.

3 very well worked tries when they finally reduced the error count.

Earl would be my MOM with Mitchell and Martin close behind. Itoje, Chessum and Lawrence were impressive too. IFW bright when he gets the ball and suits the Boks style wing defence really well with his pace.

A very smart game plan for the opposition and largely well executed. A very entertaining game and terrific win.

lostinwales wrote:Come on 7.5. If England keep on playing like this then surely you can get past the Borthwick hate?

It's finally a step in the right direction though the attack still looks bad. I will view it as one of those aberrations though as its off type for how Borthwick wants to play.

I honestly had a feeling England might produce something special today. Ireland have been so good for a while expectations weren't great

Well done England, didn't bottle it when it looked like Care and Daly were doing their best to lose it
Mitchell must surely be MOTM?
If France' s new look backfield click tomorrow then next week could be a cracker.

Soul Requiem wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I do have to admit. I'm a bit annoyed as that secures Borethick a run of games until the AIs.

Your constant moaning really does ruin this board.

I don't care what a guy who posted things you have think tbh.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I do have to admit. I'm a bit annoyed as that secures Borethick a run of games until the AIs.

Grow up. We've beaten Ireland, the best team in the world (probably) playing a nice brand of physical attacking rugby. Surely as an England fan this is what you want to see.

Well played England. Battled for the full 80 and got the win.

mountain man wrote:Just checking but thought England were going to possibly end up 6th?

Thought they we're for a while there. Good to get the luck. Bad to keep Borethick.

Soul Requiem wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I do have to admit. I'm a bit annoyed as that secures Borethick a run of games until the AIs.

Your constant moaning really does ruin this board.

He explicitly stated after the RWC that the only reason he's still here is so he can say I told you so when his team fails. His sole motivation is hoping his own team plays badly so he can laud it over blokes on a rugby forum. Genuinely embarrassing use of time.

Heaf wrote:Italy beat Scotland and England best Ireland - just need Wales to beat France now ... I think someone had a bet on that ...

They might. Wales are not in a good place but they do play for each other. France seem to be a complete mess right now

Couldn't be prouder of them, they made a very good team look ordinary for great stretches of that. Reckon Ireland will win the tournament, but good to give them a bloody nose.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I do have to admit. I'm a bit annoyed as that secures Borethick a run of games until the AIs.

Grow up. We've beaten Ireland, the best team in the world (probably) playing a nice brand of physical attacking rugby. Surely as an England fan this is what you want to see.

Grow up?just remind me what you were calling Furbank Sam?

Duty281 wrote:

If England can win in Paris next week, Borthwick is secure until 2027.

Sadly England have no chance of winning in Paris as the game is in Lyon.

They probably have a better chance winning there than in the capital.

Sets up a good last weekend as well, especially if Scotland can win in Dublin...

king_carlos wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I do have to admit. I'm a bit annoyed as that secures Borethick a run of games until the AIs.

Your constant moaning really does ruin this board.

He explicitly stated after the RWC that the only reason he's still here is so he can say I told you so when his team fails. His sole motivation is hoping his own team plays badly so he can laud it over blokes on a rugby forum. Genuinely embarrassing use of time.

I didn't. That's you making things up or misremembering king. You're just being childish constantly.

I want England to excel. Just can't see it with this set of coaches and hence its best for us to get abbetter set in as soon as possible.

sensisball wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

If England can win in Paris next week, Borthwick is secure until 2027.

Sadly England have no chance of winning in Paris as the game is in Lyon.

They probably have a better chance winning there than in the capital.

Whoops! I forgot there's a Tour De France going on.

So Scotland, England or Ireland and if France win tomorrow can win the title next weekend. I think.

Duty281 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Come on 7.5. If England keep on playing like this then surely you can get past the Borthwick hate?

Borthwick sets England up very well in the biggest games, I think it's fair to say.

Great performances against SA (just fell short) and Ireland today.

If England can win in Paris next week, Borthwick is secure until 2027.

It's a staff with multiple coaches who are regarded as being very good at designing game plans for a specific challenge. It was on show once again there.

The most impressive thing about this brilliant Ireland side is their ability to go through phases in a risk free manner. It's so draining for the opposition to face. The combination of the blitz defence and kicking strategy largely mitigated that giant strength for 80 minutes.

king_carlos wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I do have to admit. I'm a bit annoyed as that secures Borethick a run of games until the AIs.

Your constant moaning really does ruin this board.

He explicitly stated after the RWC that the only reason he's still here is so he can say I told you so when his team fails. His sole motivation is hoping his own team plays badly so he can laud it over blokes on a rugby forum. Genuinely embarrassing use of time.

I rarely post on here or the cricket board for that very reason. Criticism is fine but when people still criticise after a performance like that is a bit sad.

On a more positive not, Ben Earl has been superb yet again, the player we all hoped Sam Simmonds could be.

Soul Requiem wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I do have to admit. I'm a bit annoyed as that secures Borethick a run of games until the AIs.

Your constant moaning really does ruin this board.

He explicitly stated after the RWC that the only reason he's still here is so he can say I told you so when his team fails. His sole motivation is hoping his own team plays badly so he can laud it over blokes on a rugby forum. Genuinely embarrassing use of time.

I rarely post on here or the cricket board for that very reason. Criticism is fine but when people still criticise after a performance like that is a bit sad.

On a more positive not, Ben Earl has been superb yet again, the player we all hoped Sam Simmonds could be.

For reasons that are made up. Fair enough.

I bet England are now wondering how they lost to a team who also lost, to Italy…

Well I did say two home wins today

The atmosphere at HQ must be pretty impressive

Maine man wrote:So Scotland, England or Ireland and if France win tomorrow can win the title next weekend. I think.

According to Wikipedia, the first tiebreaking factor if table points are level is points difference. That would make Ireland virtually uncatchable by anyone except England as Ireland's point difference is +80, with Scotland's the next best at +4.

England can win the title with a TBP win in France, and if Ireland lose by 8 or more to Scotland without getting a TBP. Which, of course, is highly unlikely, but it's nice to have a chance.

"engages sarcasm"
well you only won as the TMO deliberately didn't call furbanks foot in touch or Slade playing the ball on the floor, so the moral victory is ours and I never want that ref, assistant ref or TMO again as it's clear they have it out for us.
Enjoy your hollow.victory.


Now do you see how silly that is???

Congratulations to England you were brilliantly physical and didn't let up for the full 80, and more importantly found a way to win right at the end.

Cracking game and it all makes next weekend a bit more exciting

If we'd lost that, I honestly think I would have hunted Care down...

Cumbrian wrote:If we'd lost that, I honestly think I would have hunted Care down...

Won't lie as an Ireland fan I was ready to adopt him

Some great performances there....Feyi Waboso I thought was fabulous for his first stsrt...and in a test match against Ireland...he could be special.

Earl...what a player...

George Msrtin and Sam Underhill...wow they're tough boys...

Hope CCS is not serious...

Oh and time for Daly to move on....3 mistakes when he came on

No 7&1/2 wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I do have to admit. I'm a bit annoyed as that secures Borethick a run of games until the AIs.

Your constant moaning really does ruin this board.

He explicitly stated after the RWC that the only reason he's still here is so he can say I told you so when his team fails. His sole motivation is hoping his own team plays badly so he can laud it over blokes on a rugby forum. Genuinely embarrassing use of time.

I didn't. That's you making things up or misremembering king. You're just being childish constantly.

I want England to excel. Just can't see it with this set of coaches and hence its best for us to get abbetter set in as soon as possible.

Yeah you did.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

king_carlos wrote:7.5, are you really getting anything out of these posts at this stage? Because I think it's safe to say the rest of us aren't. We get it, you think nothing's going to change. Effectively responding to well thought out and reasoned posts with, "yeah but the coaches are s**t, tactics s**tter and nothing will change so any discussion is meaningless", does raise the question of why you're bothering to engage in the discussion.

I'm sorry that I don't have the faith that Borthwick is about to change his philosophy. I guess I'm keeping going as at least I can witness the slow realisation in the few defenders that this is really the pinnacle of BorthwickBall.

But there is a serious point to those that are clamouring for him to change, when all signs point towards them patting themselves on the back for these tactics. Have to say I do rate Borthwicks coaching under Jones. I think that it where it currently stops with this group though.

That's entirely, "Waiting to say I told you so", any claim otherwise is as poorly thought through as your attempts to analyse rugby.

carpet baboon wrote:"engages sarcasm"
well you only won as the TMO deliberately didn't call furbanks foot in touch or Slade playing the ball on the floor, so the moral victory is ours and I never want that ref, assistant ref or TMO again as it's clear they have it out for us.
Enjoy your hollow.victory.


Now do you see how silly that is???

Congratulations to England you were brilliantly physical and didn't let up for the full 80, and more importantly found a way to win right at the end.

Cracking game and it all makes next weekend a bit more exciting

Actually I suspect the TMO had the runs and was in the toilet for most of the match

Geordie wrote:Some great performances there....Feyi Waboso I thought was fabulous for his first stsrt...and in a test match against Ireland...he could be special.

Earl...what a player...

George Msrtin and Sam Underhill...wow they're tough boys...

Hope CCS is not serious...

Oh and time for Daly to move on....3 mistakes when he came on

And Care - just yards from their line and have them under pressure and he kicks it away ...

Looks like a firm exchange of opinions.

https://twitter.com/brettruganalyst/status/1766521435676111207

Heaf wrote:

Geordie wrote:Some great performances there....Feyi Waboso I thought was fabulous for his first stsrt...and in a test match against Ireland...he could be special.

Earl...what a player...

George Msrtin and Sam Underhill...wow they're tough boys...

Hope CCS is not serious...

Oh and time for Daly to move on....3 mistakes when he came on

And Care - just yards from their line and have them under pressure and he kicks it away ...

Yeah I suspect there'll be a few tweaks to this sqaud for the NZ summer tour...maybe Care, Daly might be left at home.

Have to say that exceeded my expectations but so glad it did.

Not sure about subs, Mitchell if still ok should have stayed on and I'd have put Smith on way earlier.
However. We won. Against odds

That'll do pig

Rugby Fan wrote:Looks like a firm exchange of opinions.

https://twitter.com/brettruganalyst/status/1766521435676111207

Faz Snr is usually very level headed as a coach. It'll be interesting to see if anything comes out about.

king_carlos wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I do have to admit. I'm a bit annoyed as that secures Borethick a run of games until the AIs.

Your constant moaning really does ruin this board.

He explicitly stated after the RWC that the only reason he's still here is so he can say I told you so when his team fails. His sole motivation is hoping his own team plays badly so he can laud it over blokes on a rugby forum. Genuinely embarrassing use of time.

I didn't. That's you making things up or misremembering king. You're just being childish constantly.

I want England to excel. Just can't see it with this set of coaches and hence its best for us to get abbetter set in as soon as possible.

Yeah you did.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

king_carlos wrote:7.5, are you really getting anything out of these posts at this stage? Because I think it's safe to say the rest of us aren't. We get it, you think nothing's going to change. Effectively responding to well thought out and reasoned posts with, "yeah but the coaches are s**t, tactics s**tter and nothing will change so any discussion is meaningless", does raise the question of why you're bothering to engage in the discussion.

I'm sorry that I don't have the faith that Borthwick is about to change his philosophy. I guess I'm keeping going as at least I can witness the slow realisation in the few defenders that this is really the pinnacle of BorthwickBall.

But there is a serious point to those that are clamouring for him to change, when all signs point towards them patting themselves on the back for these tactics. Have to say I do rate Borthwicks coaching under Jones. I think that it where it currently stops with this group though.

That's entirely, "Waiting to say I told you so", any claim otherwise is as poorly thought through as your attempts to analyse rugby.

The only reason I'm still here is to say I told you so. Absolute lie. The keep going refers to banging the drum that Borthwick was the wrong choice when there were better options not considered. And the tactics have been abysmal not getting the best out of some absolute gems we have available. Do you want to reconsider your remark now then or continue the lie? My thought on rugby analysis well who cares? It's not as if you're Ian McGeechan.

mikey_dragon wrote:I bet England are now wondering how they lost to a team who also lost, to Italy…

Not really. I'm sure the analysis of the game showed the painful number of knocks on and just how difficult it is to win games when you constantly give the ball away under little pressure.

Against Ireland we looked after the ball far better and made Ireland work a lot harder in defence than we did Scotland. Got to try and keep that going for the France game

C’mon England! What a win! Think we should have gone for the try at the end rather than the Smith drop goal. We had a penalty advantage in front on the posts and Ireland on the ropes. A try bonus point would have given us a chance for next week to win the tournament. Poor decision by Smith.

king_carlos wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:Looks like a firm exchange of opinions.

https://twitter.com/brettruganalyst/status/1766521435676111207

Faz Snr is usually very level headed as a coach. It'll be interesting to see if anything comes out about.

As someone who watched a lot of League back in the 90's it's intriguing to see how calm and collected he is as a coach nowadays. Volatile would have been an understatement, it's one of the reasons i've always given Owen a bit more slack than most, being around that environment must have had an impact on his personality.

Heaf wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:"engages sarcasm"
well you only won as the TMO deliberately didn't call furbanks foot in touch or Slade playing the ball on the floor, so the moral victory is ours and I never want that ref, assistant ref or TMO again as it's clear they have it out for us.
Enjoy your hollow.victory.


Now do you see how silly that is???

Congratulations to England you were brilliantly physical and didn't let up for the full 80, and more importantly found a way to win right at the end.

Cracking game and it all makes next weekend a bit more exciting

Actually I suspect the TMO had the runs and was in the toilet for most of the match

I am extremely glad the match didn't come down to some borderline TMO decision or a red card. I'm sure the TMO was hoping the same thing.