Welsh Team To Face South Africa (Assuming all are fit and well).

Three weeks out, however things are begining to crystallise for September 11th. This is my team to face the Boks.

15 Halfpenny

14 North
13 Roberts
12 Hook
11 Williams

10 Jones
9 Phillips

1. James
2 Bennett
3 Jones

4. Wyn Jones
5 Davies

6 Lydiate
7 Warburton
8 Jones

Bench:
Mitchell, Burns, Faletau, Powell, Knoyle, Davies, Williams.

Reasoning:

1. Gethin- forget it at moment.
2. Bennett - best of bad bunch, but good in both England tests.
3. Faletau - need Ryan in the big one, Toby's time will come.
4. Jones/Hook - help me out here. I just think Roberts and Davies aint working. We need Hooks flair but the question is whether Jones is going to be up for this first game. All thoughts welcome.
5. Byrne, no form to merit being in the squad nevermind the team.


What do people think?

I think it might be your team but Gatland will almost certainly start with Hook at 10. he's in such good form it would be silly not to. Not sure about Ryan Jones at 8 but he's probably the best option for the first match.

other than that I would be happy with that team

If Jones is fully fit he will start, Hook will fit in at 13 or bench. I don't see 1/2 at fullback, it will be between Burn and Priestland. Faletau is not ready so Charteris will be on the bench with, unfortunately Bevington as Mitchell is a tight head.

We hear a lot that the Davies & Roberts combo isn't working. But I would say -

A) it's working well defensively. This is going to be very important in our group.

B) the ball is getting out to the back 3, who are consistently causing trouble - something that didn't happened in the last two 6N campaigns.

So I would stick with it, Scott Williams would bring a bit more creativity from the bench, if needed.

We got a masterclass back 3 of Halfpenny, Williams & North so will compensate for lack of creativity at 12/13

Defence is key at the moment.

We also have North acting as an extra 13 on occassions & Williams plays everywhere anyway.

We know for a fact Gethin will not be fit, so why have you chosen him? Paul James would get in on merit anyway. As would Priestland who should start at 10 in your team, yet, he's not even on your bench?

However if Hook does start at 10, then I see this being the backline: Phillips, Hook, Williams, Roberts, Scott Williams, North, Priestland. I expect Scott Williams and Georgey boy to shine at the world cup.

samuraidragon wrote:We hear a lot that the Davies & Roberts combo isn't working. But I would say -

A) it's working well defensively. This is going to be very important in our group.

B) the ball is getting out to the back 3, who are consistently causing trouble - something that didn't happened in the last two 6N campaigns.

So I would stick with it, Scott Williams would bring a bit more creativity from the bench, if needed.

You actually make very good points.

nottins_jones wrote:We know for a fact Gethin will not be fit, so why have you chosen him? Paul James would get in on merit anyway. As would Priestland who should start at 10 in your team, yet, he's not even on your bench?

However if Hook does start at 10, then I see this being the backline: Phillips, Hook, Williams, Roberts, Scott Williams, North, Priestland. I expect Scott Williams and Georgey boy to shine at the world cup.

Am I being blind but I can't see where Jenkins is on the original team list?

Hook has to start at 10 instead of Jones. Look at the results over the past few years and the only time Wales won when Jones was at 10 was against Italy and Scotland. We have more games when Hook has been at 10.
I do worry about creativity in the centre as Roberts looks more effective at 13 than 12 but I think the best 2 at the moment are Roberts and J.Davies.

I agree with 1/2p as Byrne looked so rusty and poor against the Pumas.

In the pack I wouldn't go with R.Jones starting but on the bench and stick Faletau in there. I would include Charteris on the bench instead of Powell.

I read half the team then seen this:

"Reasoning:

1. Gethin- forget it at moment.
2. Bennett - best of bad bunch, but good in both England tests." assuming Gethin was penciled in. Guess I mis-read then.

Pack makes sense but i think Ryan will start in the bench with TF at 8. he can cover back row and locks meaning Wales can have 4 backs on the bench.

Jones will be ready...if fit he is the consummate professional.

I think Hook will start at 15 with Halfpenny on the bench; I agree JD is not on form but they have to persist with this pairing and in defense they are solid.

Could Charteris start to address lineout....anyone know his line out stats?

Gatts wrote:Pack makes sense but i think Ryan will start in the bench with TF at 8. he can cover back row and locks meaning Wales can have 4 backs on the bench..

I wouldnt put only 3 forwards on the bench against the most physical forward orientated team in the world.

What i dont understand his if Gethin is not going to be fit enough, then why is he in the squad?

Yeah you are right 4 forwards so I think it means Charteris may even start with Bradley and Ryan on the bench...i really don't rate charteris but it may be the only way to counter Matfield.

As for Geth....WG obviously rates him that highly...bar injury he would have gone on to be a great and he still has it in the loose which is why he is travelling. I think WG knows just how costly the physicality of our group may be so extra props are vital.

I really think losing him and rees may be our greatest weakness....if we had a fully fit lions front row then our pack would be awesome

Gatts

I understand what you mean about losing Rees,and possibly Gethin and all, but can Gatland realy afford to Gethin if he is not going to be fith enough(for the tournament)Or is he almost at full fitness, that he will only miss the SA game?

No I don't think he can afford to take him....unless that is that Geth is fully fit as you say. He has had a chronic injury for a long time and often goes off with a calf strain.....but if he has been training and is fit then he is worth taking.

He should be fit after the SA game, my guess is he will come of the bench vs Samoa and start vs Namibia then they will decide who starts against Fiji.

If Charteris starts Matfield will chew him alive. Despite his excellent prescence in the line for the Dragons I've never seen him produce a dominant lineout display for Wales. Wales' problem is that the whole organisation of the lineout is a shambles with clear uncertainty in the hookers throwing in. Charteris' inclusion will not guarantee us possession at the lineout. Secondly he is lightweight (I know he's 6'10" and 20st - he plays like he's 11st) around the park and given how aggressive the Boks are in the breakdown area he offers little to counter their main threat. Gatland after 3 years in charge STILL hasn't looked like sorting out our issues at the breakdown. We will be turning ball over at a rate of knots against a side with the likes of Habana in the backs.

Sorry to be negative guys, but we just about bested an ordinary England team AND STILL we conceeded stupid quantities of turnovers and possession. No matter what form the Boks are in coming into this RWC they still have enough classy players with the firepower to overwhelm us where it counts - on the floor. If the England matches are anything to go by it'll be a long day tackling and we will conceed tries if we turnover ball to the Boks.

Having said all of this I honestly don't think it'll make a massive difference if AWJ & Davies form the 2nd row pair. They'll still be physically outmatched in the loose. Our only hope is of coming out like men possessed and smashing the Boks in the tackle. We've got a few big lads of our own and it's about time they made their size tell. We have to front up and try to knock SA out of their stride. We can't afford to faff about like we usually do.

Direct and hard defence and lightning fast attacks are the way ....

Can it be done?

15 Halfpenny
14 North
13 Davies
12 Roberts
11 Williams
10 Hook
9 Phillips

8 Jones
7 Warburton
6 Lydiate
5 Jones
4 Davies
3 Jones
2 Bennett
1 James

16 Burns
17 Mitchell
18 Charteris
19 Faletau
20 Knoyle
21 Jones
22 Williams

Agree with Chris' team, except would not have Halfpenny at 15. Steyn would be dropping bombs on him all afternoon long.

For me it would be Byrne, who love him or hate him is the only international 15 in the squad, and I would have Priestland on the bench to cover 10 & 15.

You can't have Mitchell as only prop replacement. He is a tight head, if James is injured in the first 5 mins,Wales have to play 75 minutes of test rugby with two tight heads. As Bevington is the only other fit Loose Head he must play (scraping the bottom of the barrel).

If Jones is fully fit he must play 10, with Hook at either 13 or 15. Powell has been chosen to cover 8 & 6 so will be on the bench ahead of Faletau. I agree with Samurai Dragon, not only has 1/2p not played 15 for some time, he looked a long way from being match fit agaist Argentina.

Seagultaf wrote:You can't have Mitchell as only prop replacement. He is a tight head, if James is injured in the first 5 mins,Wales have to play 75 minutes of test rugby with two tight heads. As Bevington is the only other fit Loose Head he must play (scraping the bottom of the barrel).

This is why Iestyn Thomas should be in the squad - flippin Gatland!

If fit Byrne will play and also I wouldn't have Jones at No8, he maybe raw but Faletau Lydiate and Warburton is our best back row combo

I thought Mitchell could play both sides? I selected Jones ahead of Faletau as I like the extra lineout option he gives us, and the more leaders we have in the team against South Africa the better.

Byrne has been abysmal, Halfpenny is safe enough under the high ball and has the length of kicking to keep South Africa pinned back.

chris,

I agree Byrne has been abysaml but IMO I still think Gats will pick him despite what form he has show.

The only other option I could see Gats picking is Hook at XV and for me that won't work either.

I would love to see him pick Halfpenny but just can't see it myself. As for Jones as lineout option then its such a shambles anyway can't see what difference he would make, for me I would rather a better option at No8 which Faletau is.

Wouldn't argue if Jones was picked in 2nd row though like said lineout is a shambles whoever plays there.

15. Preistland

Surely thats the only option which doesnt involve moving a player who rarely plays there or playing Byrne who is badly out of form and with SA kicking his mistakes could cost us dearly.

606,

Did actually foget about Rhys and would be happy with him there but I am still convinced that Gatland will start S Jones at 10 with Byrne or Hook at XV.

Hope I am wrong

Screw the South Africa game to be honest, we wont win it.

The South Africa scramble defence is brilliant, their line out is probably the best in the World with Botha and Matfield, and they steal a lot of opposition ball. I just can't see how Wales can beat them without a lot of things going their way.

15 Lee Bryne - get match fitness
14 Leigh Half Penny - match fitness
13 Jamie roberts - defence work
12 Jonathan Davies - defence work
11 Aled Brew - A chance to show what he can do, and aggressive defence.
10 Stephen Jones - Match fitness / defence
9 Mike Phillips - defence work
8 Andy Powell - defence work
7 Sam Warburton - defence work
6 Dan Lydiate - defence work
5 Alun-Wyn Jones - defence work
4 Bradley Davies - defence work
3 Adam Jones - match fitness
2 Ken Owens - need to find out if he can throw straight.
1 Paul James - high tackle count

Subs:
16 Gethin Jenkins - to come on for Paul James after 55 mins.
17 Huw Bennett - He is normally an impact player - 55 mins
18 Craig Mitchell - swap Adam Jones - 55 mins
19 Ryan Jones - switch with Bradley Davies - 55 mins
20 Toby Faletau - switch with Warburton, Lydiate to openside, Faletau to blidnside - 55 mins
21 - Tavis Knoyle - Switch with Mike Phillips - 55 mins.
22 - Ryhs Priestland - don't use if possible


I'd keep Shane Williams, George North, Gethin Jenkins and James Hook for the other 3 games, god forbid they should get injured!

AlynDavies wrote:Screw the South Africa game to be honest, we wont win it.

The South Africa scramble defence is brilliant, their line out is probably the best in the World with Botha and Matfield, and they steal a lot of opposition ball. I just can't see how Wales can beat them without a lot of things going their way.

15 Lee Bryne - get match fitness
14 Leigh Half Penny - match fitness
13 Jamie roberts - defence work
12 Jonathan Davies - defence work
11 Aled Brew - A chance to show what he can do, and aggressive defence.
10 Stephen Jones - Match fitness / defence
9 Mike Phillips - defence work
8 Andy Powell - defence work
7 Sam Warburton - defence work
6 Dan Lydiate - defence work
5 Alun-Wyn Jones - defence work
4 Bradley Davies - defence work
3 Adam Jones - match fitness
2 Ken Owens - need to find out if he can throw straight.
1 Paul James - high tackle count

I'd keep Shane Williams, George North, Gethin Jenkins and James Hook for the other 3 games, god forbid they should get injured!

Seriously? Wales shouldnt give up in the first game of the WC, in such a tough group we cant afford to throw any games.

I think Wales can beat SA, the lineout isnt a huge problem, I expect it will improve before the first game, and Wales have played Matfield before and almost beat SA the last 2 times.

Wales vs SA in a world cup is certainly not a warmup game.

Do you think Gatland should play a weak team and tell the players, you have no chance because they are far better than you, you have no chance at the WC - will that help them beat Fiji and Samoa?

I think Wales will run the Boks close, but lose by less than 10 due to SA pounding the breakdown and Steyns kicking.

wales606 wrote:Seriously? Wales shouldnt give up in the first game of the WC, in such a tough group we cant afford to throw any games.

I think Wales can beat SA, the lineout isnt a huge problem, I expect it will improve before the first game, and Wales have played Matfield before and almost beat SA the last 2 times.

Wales vs SA in a world cup is certainly not a warmup game.

Do you think Gatland should play a weak team and tell the players, you have no chance because they are far better than you, you have no chance at the WC - will that help them beat Fiji and Samoa?

I think Wales will run the Boks close, but lose by less than 10 due to SA pounding the breakdown and Steyns kicking.

Wales need to beat 3 teams of Samoa, Fiji, South Africa and Namibia to progress to the quarters where Australia will knock us out.
Personally I'd keep our marquee players back for more important games and play the percentages. I picked a very macho, aggressive team which will front up and tackle that's what you need to have any chance against South Africa. Basically our best defenders, and players wont wont go backwards, that;s our best chance for the game.

I wish someone would concede the fact that south africa plays rugby as well, and don't just kick every thing.

biltongbek wrote:I wish someone would concede the fact that south africa plays rugby as well, and don't just kick every thing.

I'll concede that, I also concede they have the best lock pairing in the world and steal a lot of line out hence why they also kick it deep and attack the opposition on their own throw.

AlynDavies wrote:

biltongbek wrote:I wish someone would concede the fact that south africa plays rugby as well, and don't just kick every thing.

I'll concede that, I also concede they have the best lock pairing in the world and steal a lot of line out hence why they also kick it deep and attack the opposition on their own throw.

Thanks Alyn for that half concession. Now 5,999,999,999 people to go.

I think we ca beat SA they are a team with internal issues lacking match practice and confidence. The victory over the AB 2nds did little to paper over the cracks. Howver we will still have to play out of our skins to get a result.

1. Paul James
2. Huw Bennett
3. Adam Jones
4. Charteris
5.AWJ
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Phillips
10. Hook
11. Shane
12. Roberts
13. JD2
14. George
15. Halfpenny

16. Bevvington
17. Burns
18. Mitchell,
19. Ryan Jones

20. Tavis (personally prefer lloyd williams but gats will go for Tavis)
21. Priestland
22. Scott Williams

AlynDavies wrote:
Wales need to beat 3 teams of Samoa, Fiji, South Africa and Namibia to progress to the quarters where Australia will knock us out.
Personally I'd keep our marquee players back for more important games and play the percentages. I picked a very macho, aggressive team which will front up and tackle that's what you need to have any chance against South Africa. Basically our best defenders, and players wont wont go backwards, that;s our best chance for the game.

Yes but you also said "screw the SA game." Luckily for all of us Gatland and the team won't be throwing in the towel like you.

Depending on the results of the other matches, our score against South Africa could be crucial, no? What if Fiji, Samoa and Wales all end up with two victories and two losses?

nottins_jones wrote:Yes but you also said "screw the SA game." Luckily for all of us Gatland and the team won't be throwing in the towel like you.

I'm not throwing in the towel, but I am prepared to put a few select players in cotton wool for the game to avoid injury.
If you check my team it is a strong one

For what its worth I think this should be the team and will probably be the team

1. Paul James
2. Huw Bennett
3. Adam Jones
4. B Davies
5.AWJ
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Phillips
10. Hook
11. Shane
12. Roberts
13. S Williams
14. George
15. Priestland

16. Bevvington
17. Owens
18. Charteris
19. Ryan Jones

20. Tavis
21. Brew
22. S Jones

Agree with that Ruby & Wales only option IMO is to treat SA as a knock out game because Oz look a step too far right now.

Wales are probably playing SA at their most vulnerable time & you need to go for it - no option.

RubyGuby wrote:For what its worth I think this should be the team and will probably be the team

1. Paul James
2. Huw Bennett
3. Adam Jones
4. B Davies
5.AWJ
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Phillips
10. Hook
11. Shane
12. Roberts
13. S Williams
14. George
15. Priestland

16. Bevvington
17. Owens
18. Mitchell,
19. Ryan Jones

20. Tavis
21. Brew
22. S Jones

Think that will be the team bar JD2 in for Scott Williams. I'm not sure he'll go two props on the bench and I think he'll go for Burns over Owens.

Personally I would have Ryan Jones in at 8 as well if I were picking the team.

Nor do I think Brew will be on the bench. That will be Scott Williams or Halfpenny.

I am not 100% certain Priestland will be at 15 either now I've reread it.

Risca Rev wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:For what its worth I think this should be the team and will probably be the team

1. Paul James
2. Huw Bennett
3. Adam Jones
4. B Davies
5.AWJ
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Phillips
10. Hook
11. Shane
12. Roberts
13. S Williams
14. George
15. Priestland

16. Bevvington
17. Owens
18. Mitchell,
19. Ryan Jones

20. Tavis
21. Brew
22. S Jones

Think that will be the team bar JD2 in for Scott Williams. I'm not sure he'll go two props on the bench and I think he'll go for Burns over Owens.

Personally I would have Ryan Jones in at 8 as well if I were picking the team.

Can't seeing him picking 3 front rowers on the bench, Jones or Faletau depending who starts likewise Davies or Charterris I reckon.

My mistake with 2 props on the bench - I'll edit

Wales could easily lose the opening match 36-0. They're no better in real terms than England were going into the group stages last time out. If they do lose 36-0, are we allowed to take the mick?

How can they be better or worse 'in real terms'?

Well given that we've just beaten England that would imply that England are now in a worse state than they were going into 07 which is against conventional logic. Also England in 07 were playing poorly and lacking in confidence whereas South Africa at the time were not. Currently Wales have the spark of confidence and South Africa seem to be on the ropes.


They could lose the first match 36-0 but I would be very surprised if they did

Oh yes, SA are really on the ropes aren't they....

mckay1402 wrote:How can they be better or worse 'in real terms'?

Well given that we've just beaten England that would imply that England are now in a worse state than they were going into 07 which is against conventional logic. Also England in 07 were playing poorly and lacking in confidence whereas South Africa at the time were not. Currently Wales have the spark of confidence and South Africa seem to be on the ropes.


They could lose the first match 36-0 but I would be very surprised if they did

Wales won their last game so have the "spark of confidence", but SA are "on the ropes" even though they won their last game against New Zealand ?

you have to love how subjective and hypocritical peoples contexts are on this site.



S.Africa arent on the ropes, but they havent been near the team we've come to expect them to be for the last year and a half. They beat New Zealand minus Carter/McCaw? Now, thats not something I'd back Wales to do at the moment, but that doesnt mean they go into this tournament fully firing.

Wales have just beaten England when they had no right too and comfortably stumbled passed Argentina without really having to do too much.

Neither team are going into this at the top of their game, however Wales seem more confident than they've been since 2008, this is reflected in their fans voices.

S.Africa have looked hungry for the victory for the first time since winning the last World Cup and the Lions series.

I'd imagine S.A have too much for us, however, I also imagine Wales under Warburtons captaincy will throw all their heaviest punches at S.Africa like they may not have had the confidence to do before and this is the test both sides need to start the World Cup.

I also expect both sides to qualify (SA top) and Samoa to be the next biggest game for Wales. I expect the Fiji game to be tough for about 60 minutes. I dont expect Namibia to be too much of a challenge.

From there, its any mans guess as form seems to go out of the window completely there. see New Zealand/England as examples of form swinging from one extreme to the next from the group stages to the quarter final in 2007.

My Wales guide: Out at the groups? Gutted.
Id be satisfied with a qrtr final.
Happy with a semi final.
Ecstatic should we reach the final.
I'll probably have to have the cold empty bottle of JD pryed from my cold stiff fingers should we win the thing.

It's OK nottins and Great white, let him believe.

The match is not that far off.

it seems a relatively sensible rambling put a stop to that nonsense.

reality 1 - 0 deluded 606v2 compatriots