Scotland V New Zealand - November 15th

First topic message reminder :

       
Scotland v New Zealand

Date: Saturday, November 15
Venue: BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh
Kickoff: 17:30 local (GMT)
Referee: Romain Poite (France)
Assistant Referees: Johnny Lacey (Ireland), Stuart Berry (South Africa)
TMO: Gareth Simmonds (Wales)

************************

Right this isn't one of your GC fancy pants matchday threads, I'm in charge this time.

Had originally considered calling it the 'Kiwi Krushing Kelebration' thread, but realized that'd be an inappropriate acronym...

Now onto the game, normally you'd expect to read about form / head to head here, but for reasons which I'll go onto none of that really matters because this is the year that we will finally beat the All Blacks!

Now what makes me so sure you ask, well quite simply, I've a cast iron, 100% scientific theory that proves that next weekend we will at long last neutralize New Zealand.  

2003 England win the Rugby World Cup - 3 years later they lose at Murrayfield
2007 South Africa win the Rugby World Cup - 3 years later they lose at Murrayfield
2011 New Zealand win the Rugby World Cup - 3 years later...  

Quite simply and to quote Tinie Tempah, it's "written in the stars".

Teams to be announced (not that it matters).

Scotland

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors); 25 caps
14 Sean Maitland (Glasgow Warriors); 14 caps
13 Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors), 1 cap
12 Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors); 9 caps
11 Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors); 11 caps
10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors); 3 caps
9 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester); 32 caps

1 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby); 37 caps
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby); 78 caps
3 Euan Murray (Glasgow Warriors); 61 caps
4 Richie Gray (Castres); 40 caps
5 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors); 6 caps
6 Rob Harley (Glasgow Warriors); 8 caps
7 Blair Cowan (London Irish); 4 caps
8 Adam Ashe (Glasgow Warriors); 2 caps

16 Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors); 1 cap
17 Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors); 4 caps
18 Geoff Cross (London Irish); 33 caps
19 Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors); 9 caps
20 Johnnie Beattie (Castres); 32 caps
21 Chris Cusiter (Sale Sharks); 68 caps
22 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors); 16 caps
23 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors); 89 caps

New Zealand

15 Ben Smith
14 Colin Slade
13 Malakai Fekitoa
12 Ryan Crotty
11 Charle Piutau
10 Dan Carter
09 TJ Perenara

08 Victor Vito
07 Sam Cane
06 Richie McCaw
05 Dominic Bird
04 Jeremy Thrush
03 Charlie Faumuina
02 James Parsons
01 Joe Moody

16 Dane Coles
17 Wyatt Crockett
18 Ben Franks
19 Luke Romano
20 Liam Messam
21 Augustin Pulu
22 Sonny Bill Williams
23 Julian Savea.

yes I know most will be ok but some will want his neck on the block. Slade is a must for the World cup as his goalkicking is superior to anyone other than Carter and I'd bet theyd be close. I just don't know why he doesnt have him at fullback where his attacking options are better.

Good times though...just give us some dry weather!

Very true Auckland. ~to win the WC you need two players in pretty much every position. People have got to be able to slot into the team seamlessly. When else do these guys get a chance? Mind you if Scotland win you will hear the cheer in Auckland. :-)

I see a bit of a confusion of good fullback cover, weve seen Smith play well as an attacking fullback for the Highlanders, we know Piutaus ability as a full back, we even know Corey Jane is comfortable and loses nothing in the fifteen jersey.Cruden and Barrett arent exactly strangers to the position.Slade for the points he has in him has to be around somewhere.

You wouldnt want to be Israel Dagg at the moment...

Taylorman wrote:yes I know most will be ok but some will want his neck on the block. Slade is a must for the World cup as his goalkicking is superior to anyone other than Carter and I'd bet theyd be close. I just don't know why he doesnt have him at fullback where his attacking options are better.

Good times though...just give us some dry weather!

We would prefer that as well. However its going to be horizontal horridness I fear.

TJ wrote:Very true Auckland.  ~to win the WC you need two players in pretty much every position.  People have got to be able to slot into the team seamlessly.  When else do these guys get a chance?    Mind you if Scotland win you will hear the cheer in Auckland.  :-)

International rugby results are a bit ho-hum,we dont really see any major upsets (once every ten years England pinch a victory over the ABs), for Scotland to beat the ABs it would bring some energy and excitement to International rugby, it would be great for rugby, it would be great for International rugby, it would be great for Scottish rugby.

Just look out for the ginger tackle monster

Sweet, thanks for run downs Captain Sensible, Braveheart, Highland Scot and TJ. Sounds positive with respect to players and game plan. Will keep an eye out for Russell, young Gray and the ginger monster. Looking forward to the game. Glad you guys are in the world beater mood, good for the game, and great that VC has helped instill this back in fans. Just mind AB breaks, be agressive, and who knows what can happen.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

TJ wrote:Very true Auckland.  ~to win the WC you need two players in pretty much every position.  People have got to be able to slot into the team seamlessly.  When else do these guys get a chance?    Mind you if Scotland win you will hear the cheer in Auckland.  :-)

 International rugby results are a bit ho-hum,we dont really see any major upsets (once every ten years England pinch a victory over the ABs), for Scotland to beat the ABs it would bring some energy and excitement to International rugby, it would be great for rugby, it would be great for International rugby, it would be great for Scottish rugby.

yeah I agree with that. My need to win has tempered somewhat these days, plus its being well looked after by the boys in black. But the number of happy faces in Scotland would be worth it I reckon. i'm still waiting to have my beer with the Irish at Mollys on Courtney place as I've been promising for the last few years but perhaps it might be the Thistle first just up from the railway station!

One thing I'm certain of...Carter will go off injured...guarantee it.

Yup, very high probability. Don't know about you guys but DC is more a luxury than a necessity these day. Would be great if we see him be influential again but i think that ship has sailed.

yeah he just extends himself too much and pop...happens all the time. If he plays the full 80 it'll be a minor miracle.

One bonus of the AB team selection is that Cotter may be thrown off kilter with what he may have been expecting and planned for. If Cotter is the master tactitian as said in the article below then i hope the ABs surprise him somehow. Slade on the wing. Two 7s. Bet he didnt pick that.

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11358914

One has the following observations firstly Scotland scored a very good win over Argentina
BUT.It was much weaker than the side that contested the RC and Scotland has history
of success over them home and away.

As an Anglo-Scot I have known and rejoiced when Scotland written off have pulled off
remarkable victories.Scotland have home advantage.,and ABs in there away strip which
always seems less intimidating.

It has been assumed Scotland will play the same way as last week but that may not be the case.Maitland has no secrets from AB`s as an ex Crusader ,McCaw and co will know his game
backwards.

With two games left this was always going to be the match for experimentation and given
injuries in most cases its logical.

The midfield is absent,only one fit first choice Tight Head and Lock so saving them for
perceived more difficult game is logical.Same with 6 the choice of Slade is obvious
he is the best option at 10 this year on known form.

So good he kept Dan Carter at 12 for the Crusaders during there run and did the
goal kicking too.A world Cup winner and first choice back up to DC in RWC 2011
where nerves followed by injury laid him low.Comfortable at 10,12,15 has covered
9,and played some at wing.

If anything CoryJane is most at risk from the "AndrewMerthens clone"and he`s here
today to cover DC.McCaw at 6 was something he did comfortably with Todd at 7
for the Crusaders.

There is a perception here that Carter is finished and if he doesn't figure full 80
plus some of Wales game he won`t make RWC2015.

Does anyone know if we're wearing red or blue, or NZ is playing in black or white?

emack2 wrote: ABs in there away strip which always seems less intimidating.

Booo! So that's both teams playing in their away strips. How unnecessary

Nematode wrote:Does anyone know if we're wearing red or blue, or NZ is playing in black or white?

So it'll look like an England v Wales game? To hell with that, I'm not going to watch then because it'll be all bluster, bombast, sneers and jeers from Jiffy and James Bond Guscott!

The reason I asked is that in interviews the players wore red, yet in the captain's run, they wore navy blue.

Is red their training ground colours?

The red kit does look a lot like our old training kit circa 2006 but is our new away kit.
http://shop.scottishrugby.org/media/catalog/product/cache/2/image/459x468/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/5/8/58064402.jpg

Nematode wrote:The reason I asked is that in interviews the players wore red, yet in the captain's run, they wore navy blue.

Jeeze! Someone alert the groundstaff, you weren't lying when you said you'd use Geoff's beard to infiltrate the ground again.

The All Blacks will be in Black. Scotland in Orange.

Well I have to say I've woken up more worried that this is going to be a damp squib - there's been so much hype from a Scotland point of view that it would be typically Scottish of us just to get blown away and put in a poor performance, which would be so disappointing.

To be fair, the chances of that happening are probably higher than us winning!

aucklandlaurie wrote:
The All Blacks will be in Black. Scotland in Orange.

Orange? Oh so their anti-Irish colours - oh right. They must be putting the boot in after last night.

It's definitely red, not orange...

You sure its not an orangy red

Definitely more red than orange!

Can anyone name the 5 Scottish players in the starting XV who have played club rugby in NZ.

It's red... and I should know, I put it through a computer program just to be sure.

Em........... Cotter is one?

SecretFly wrote:Em........... Cotter is one?

Nice try..............

blackcanelion wrote:Can anyone name the 5 Scottish players in the starting XV who have played club rugby in NZ.

Gray jnr, Cowan, Russell, Bennett, Maitland ?

Or is it Ashe over Bennett...

SecretFly wrote:Em........... Cotter is one?

Brilliant.

blackcanelion wrote:Can anyone name the 5 Scottish players in the starting XV who have played club rugby in NZ.

And name the clubs.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

blackcanelion wrote:Can anyone name the 5 Scottish players in the starting XV who have played club rugby in NZ.

Gray jnr, Cowan, Russell, Bennett, Maitland ?

Or is it Ashe over Bennett...

I think you hit the nail on the head.

Maitland and Cowan born and bred kiwis, J Grey, Russell and Ash came over and played club rugby in Christchurch on MacPhail scholarships.

Thought it might have lasted longer...

blackcanelion wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

blackcanelion wrote:Can anyone name the 5 Scottish players in the starting XV who have played club rugby in NZ.

Gray jnr, Cowan, Russell, Bennett, Maitland ?

Or is it Ashe over Bennett...

I think you hit the nail on the head.

Maitland and Cowan born and bred kiwis, J Grey, Russell and Ash came over and played club rugby in Christchurch on MacPhail scholarships.

Thought it might have lasted longer...

From memory I think Ashe was called back from his scholarship early to play against the boks in the summer tour, then went straight back to NZ for his last couple of weeks.


Could have been 6 players too if Gilchrist wasn't injured - he still keeps in touch with Sam whitelock apparently.

Am getting a little tired of the media approach to this game - seems to be focused entirely on how much 'respect' to give the All Blacks. I mean, who gives a monkey's nuts? Why don't we just go out, play them and see what the score is at the end? That's what most teams do, rather than having to announce to the waiting hacks what their 'approach' and 'mindset' should be. I'm dying for someone like Finn Russell to look straight into a camera and say that Scotland's approach will be try and score more points than them.

I don't know what other sports go through this whole navel gazing jamboree prior to a match. I don't ever recall playing Germany at football and having to decide exhaustively beforehand how much we are to feel 'intimidated' by them beforehand. For all that we might deny it, it's clear that this young team may well adopt the 'deer in the headlights' approach that previous teams have done, which is a shame, because this lot has more talent in their todgers than any Scotland team over the past decade.

SecretFly wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:
The All Blacks will be in Black. Scotland in Orange.

Orange?  Oh so their anti-Irish colours - oh right.   They must be putting the boot in after last night.

So if orange is the new black then where does that leave us?

Not long now, freezing cold night - hopefully the kiwis don't like the cold!

is it wet?

Dry and no wind, just cold! Perfect conditions really.

Been more than a bit of hype about this game but just to make it clear we are not favourites in any shape or form. This may not be their strongest team but no-one wins an All Black cap who does not deserve it, not something you can say about Scotland.

To me it is way to soon for this Scotland team and this game is still about the performance not the result. VC was right when he said to just forget about the past and the future. These guys just need to concentrate on the here and now, go out and play their hearts out and see how the match pans out.

I hope that they enjoy the experience and learn from it so that one day we will be competitive with NZ. That is what we need to aim for, but we are not there yet.

I will still be cheering them to the rafters though!

Spot on Biggee!

BigGee wrote:Been more than a bit of hype about this game but just to make it clear we are not favourites in any shape or form. This may not be their strongest team but no-one wins an All Black cap who does not deserve it, not something you can say about Scotland.

To me it is way to soon for this Scotland team and this game is still about the performance not the result. VC was right when he said to just forget about the past and the future. These guys just need to concentrate on the here and now, go out and play their hearts out and see how the match pans out.

I hope that they enjoy the experience and learn from it so that one day we will be competitive with NZ. That is what we need to aim for, but we are not there yet.

I will still be cheering them to the rafters though!

All the best then. I'm prepared for a win either way so am just going to enjoy the ride!

Hoping for a good game. I will be happy if we can score some tries and keep it within 20-25

Really hope we can put some decent tries together, and I'd like to see Bennett particularly given more of a chance to show what he can do in attack, can he step up? Can't see us winning, but lets see what happens!

Great entrance. Murrayfield looking really good tonight. Here's to a great game

That rendition of the Flower of Scotland is bloody beautiful

Out comes the haka...definitely treating this like a knock out match...

Oh my god. The all blacks are not respecting Loch Lomond by starting their kaka before the crowd finished singing it!!!!