Irish Team Naming Thread

[MBTGOG]

First topic message reminder :

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/ Leinster)
14 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
13 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/ Leinster)
12 - Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/ Ulster)
11 - Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/ Leinster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin/ Munster)
1 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
2 - Sean Cronin (Leinster)
3 - Tony Buckley (Sale)
4 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
5 - Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster) Captain
6 - Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/ Connacht)*
7 - Niall Ronan (Shannon/ Munster)
8 - Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)

Replacements:
16 - Jerry Flannery (Shannon/ Munster)
17 - Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster)
18 - John Hayes (Bruff/Munster)
19 - Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/ Munster)
20 - Kevin McLaughlin (St Mary's College/ Leinster)
21 - Isaac Boss (Terenure College/ Leinster)
22 - Felix Jones (Shannon/ Munster)*

[littlejohn]

Good choice from Kidney. This team is to help decide the second string and also keep those who won't make the 30, enthused enough to keep fit in case of injury.

Fair point aukster, i tend to agree and will be watching the game closely to see how players perform when they are fighting for the last spots. McCarthy must have a great chance of going, but of course Kidney's fomdness of Leamy may sway it. I hope Cullen makes the squad too.

Backline wise management must be desperate to find alternatives to BOD and Darcy, and i'm hoping over these games we'll find something that works.

good luck too to Kearney and i hope he can find form quickly!

[Gibson]

What think people about McFadden at 13? I think he has a real chance of nailing a starting berth if he can continue last year's form. (Not at 13 of course as Drico WILL be fit).
Slightly odd pack, but will be interesting to see how they look on Saturday.

Its blatantly obvious, except for the blind and afflicted, Meneer Hurley: 12. McFadden 13. BOD. Master and Pupil. As it was meant to be. As it shall be. For Leinster and Ireland. Then, Earls to take over from BOD. Sorted. No consultancy-fee required.

[Notch]

What think people about McFadden at 13? I think he has a real chance of nailing a starting berth if he can continue last year's form. (Not at 13 of course as Drico WILL be fit).
Slightly odd pack, but will be interesting to see how they look on Saturday.

Its blatantly obvious, except for the blind and afflicted, Meneer Hurley: 12. McFadden 13. BOD. Master and Pupil. As it was meant to be. As it shall be. For Leinster and Ireland. Then, Earls to take over from BOD. Sorted. No consultancy-fee required.

That's the wrong selection for this World Cup. That's the wrong selection for Ireland right now. It may well be the right one in future, but right now it is the wrong one. It's not yet the right time.

[MBTGOG]

How strange that no one has even considered Trimble to move into outside until Aukster mentioned it. Makes lots of sense.

[littlejohn]

How strange that no one has even considered Trimble to move into outside until Aukster mentioned it. Makes lots of sense.

has Trimble played centre much in the last 2 years though? Could be a good option, and Tommy Bowe is an option at inside too. Massive shame that Shane Horgan couldn't help cover multiple positions...

[Gibson]

What think people about McFadden at 13? I think he has a real chance of nailing a starting berth if he can continue last year's form. (Not at 13 of course as Drico WILL be fit).
Slightly odd pack, but will be interesting to see how they look on Saturday.

Its blatantly obvious, except for the blind and afflicted, Meneer Hurley: 12. McFadden 13. BOD. Master and Pupil. As it was meant to be. As it shall be. For Leinster and Ireland. Then, Earls to take over from BOD. Sorted. No consultancy-fee required.

That's the wrong selection for this World Cup. That's the wrong selection for Ireland right now. It may well be the right one in future, but right now it is the wrong one. It's not yet the right time.

Notch,

If Darcy does not travel, it will be the case, in the centre, for this WC. Bet you a night out in Béal Feirste on it. Paddy will travel - but not as first replacement for Darcy. Sticking my neck out here, but what's new?

[Gibson]

How strange that no one has even considered Trimble to move into outside until Aukster mentioned it. Makes lots of sense.

MBTGOG, that has been discussed numerous times. He's not at his best as a centre. He shines on the wing. Ask Notch. He knows this well, watching him play for Ulster every week. Me too. Seen every game they've played last season. In the ML and HC. I want Trimble on the wing. I think he's better than Bowe - on his wing. Always did, throughout the hype over the years.

If you are talking about another possible inside-centre, for me - it would be Fitzgerald. Outside centre - Earls

[Notch]

What think people about McFadden at 13? I think he has a real chance of nailing a starting berth if he can continue last year's form. (Not at 13 of course as Drico WILL be fit).
Slightly odd pack, but will be interesting to see how they look on Saturday.

Its blatantly obvious, except for the blind and afflicted, Meneer Hurley: 12. McFadden 13. BOD. Master and Pupil. As it was meant to be. As it shall be. For Leinster and Ireland. Then, Earls to take over from BOD. Sorted. No consultancy-fee required.

That's the wrong selection for this World Cup. That's the wrong selection for Ireland right now. It may well be the right one in future, but right now it is the wrong one. It's not yet the right time.

Notch,

If Darcy does not travel, it will be the case, in the centre, for this WC. Bet you a night out in Béal Feirste on it. Paddy will travel - but not as first replacement for Darcy. Sticking my neck out here, but what's new?

It would be a bad decision. For all the hype, McFadden is fundamentally not as good an inside centre as Wallace. Yet.

Maybe he will get a chance very soon to prove me wrong? I hope so. If I am wrong, then I'm wrong and I won't hide from it. I just don't believe the McFadden I watched last season is the same player I see being talked about on here. And I've been a fan of his ever since he made his first appearance for Ireland A at 12. I see him, long term, as an important player for Ireland and Leinster. I just don't believe he's ready to replace D'Arcy in the same way that Wallace is.

[MBTGOG]

How strange that no one has even considered Trimble to move into outside until Aukster mentioned it. Makes lots of sense.

MBTGOG, that has been discussed numerous times. He's not at his best as a centre. He shines on the wing. Ask Notch. He knows this well, watching him play for Ulster every week. Me too. Seen every game they've played last season. In the ML and HC. I want Trimble on the wing. I think he's better than Bowe - on his wing. Always did, throughout the hype over the years.

If you are talking about another possible inside-centre, for me - it would be Fitzgerald. Outside centre - Earls

I'm talking about in this game if the big shuffle does happen in the backs.

[WillyGilly]

How strange that no one has even considered Trimble to move into outside until Aukster mentioned it. Makes lots of sense.

MBTGOG, that has been discussed numerous times. He's not at his best as a centre. He shines on the wing. Ask Notch. He knows this well, watching him play for Ulster every week. Me too. Seen every game they've played last season. In the ML and HC. I want Trimble on the wing. I think he's better than Bowe - on his wing. Always did, throughout the hype over the years.

If you are talking about another possible inside-centre, for me - it would be Fitzgerald. Outside centre - Earls

I'm talking about in this game if the big shuffle does happen in the backs.

I could see it happening in this game. Here's where I disagree with TGA. I'm not convinced Kearney will play the full 80 given he hasn't played since November. Plus I feel Jones deserves a shot.

[DaDubs1]

Irish team naming thread eh?

Inconsistent muppets!

[Gibson]

How strange that no one has even considered Trimble to move into outside until Aukster mentioned it. Makes lots of sense.

MBTGOG, that has been discussed numerous times. He's not at his best as a centre. He shines on the wing. Ask Notch. He knows this well, watching him play for Ulster every week. Me too. Seen every game they've played last season. In the ML and HC. I want Trimble on the wing. I think he's better than Bowe - on his wing. Always did, throughout the hype over the years.

If you are talking about another possible inside-centre, for me - it would be Fitzgerald. Outside centre - Earls

I'm talking about in this game if the big shuffle does happen in the backs.

Formation changes in the on-field backs, will most likely happen. If not, what's the point of these games? Considering the 22 Kidney has picked for this game - why indeed not? I fully expect us to lose this and learn from it. Options, Kidney should have tried out a long time ago. He is now. Im talking about the ST games to come. The real games, when we find out who will actually travel.

How many of this 22 will actually make make the 1st-choice 22 in the key Pool games in the RWC? How many of them will even make the plane? Very few. He is making an indirect statement in that very selection, imo. He already knows his preferred 22. It all depends on the players, who have been there before, being fit and able for the task. NO bolters, if the choosen ones come through it all. Its too late.

P.S. Please dont tell Sin. Not yet anyway.

[Gibson]

How strange that no one has even considered Trimble to move into outside until Aukster mentioned it. Makes lots of sense.

MBTGOG, that has been discussed numerous times. He's not at his best as a centre. He shines on the wing. Ask Notch. He knows this well, watching him play for Ulster every week. Me too. Seen every game they've played last season. In the ML and HC. I want Trimble on the wing. I think he's better than Bowe - on his wing. Always did, throughout the hype over the years.

If you are talking about another possible inside-centre, for me - it would be Fitzgerald. Outside centre - Earls

I'm talking about in this game if the big shuffle does happen in the backs.

I could see it happening in this game. Here's where I disagree with TGA. I'm not convinced Kearney will play the full 80 given he hasn't played since November. Plus I feel Jones deserves a shot.

Willy,

This is Jones's one and only shot and he deserves it - even at this late stage. If Kearney flags - he still travels. If Jones really shines when he comes on... and he will come on. Then, maybe Deccie will start to consider it. All Kearney & Murphy have to do during the course of the ST's, is to show what they naturally have. That and their experience, will seal the deal. And FB is covered. Been watching this craic for far too long.

[geoff998rugby]

What think people about McFadden at 13? I think he has a real chance of nailing a starting berth if he can continue last year's form. (Not at 13 of course as Drico WILL be fit).
Slightly odd pack, but will be interesting to see how they look on Saturday.

Its blatantly obvious, except for the blind and afflicted, Meneer Hurley: 12. McFadden 13. BOD. Master and Pupil. As it was meant to be. As it shall be. For Leinster and Ireland. Then, Earls to take over from BOD. Sorted. No consultancy-fee required.

That's the wrong selection for this World Cup. That's the wrong selection for Ireland right now. It may well be the right one in future, but right now it is the wrong one. It's not yet the right time.

I am far from convinced it is the right selection for the future either.

[geoff998rugby]

Time to air my views.

Backline fine.
Front row? Experimental and all likely subs so fine.
Second row? See above.
Back row? Well to put it blunty abominable. Ronan and McCarthy shouldn't be within an Irish country mile of the squad. McLaughlin as a sub? Well let's just say I'm not holding my breath. Chris Henry had a steady decent season without being spectacular and yet he's placed behind these guys in the pecking order. What a load of absolute Love sacks.

Well. Both McLoughlin and McCarthy are better 6s than Henry. Leamy is a better 8 (I won't argue McLaughlin at 8 because he has not played there for a few seasons, even though it WAS his 1st position), and Ronan...... Well actually he IS a better 7 (than Henry) because he is a specialist.

I know Henry has played 7 for ulster, but he is really an 8, and if I had to put him on the flank it would be at 6.

Another highly debateful asertion. Henry is better than the above implies.

As to someone else questioning where Henry is in the Ulster pecking order.
If Ulster named a team with everyone available Henry would be in it.

[MBTGOG]

Time to air my views.

Backline fine.
Front row? Experimental and all likely subs so fine.
Second row? See above.
Back row? Well to put it blunty abominable. Ronan and McCarthy shouldn't be within an Irish country mile of the squad. McLaughlin as a sub? Well let's just say I'm not holding my breath. Chris Henry had a steady decent season without being spectacular and yet he's placed behind these guys in the pecking order. What a load of absolute Love sacks.

Well. Both McLoughlin and McCarthy are better 6s than Henry. Leamy is a better 8 (I won't argue McLaughlin at 8 because he has not played there for a few seasons, even though it WAS his 1st position), and Ronan...... Well actually he IS a better 7 (than Henry) because he is a specialist.

I know Henry has played 7 for ulster, but he is really an 8, and if I had to put him on the flank it would be at 6.

Another highly debateful asertion. Henry is better than the above implies.

As to someone else questioning where Henry is in the Ulster pecking order.
If Ulster named a team with everyone available Henry would be in it.

What would that backrow be then?

[geoff998rugby]

Henry would play at 7.

Faloon had some poor games after Christmas and needs to up his game to dislodge Henry. Many disagree but as things stand I am convinced Faloon would start on the bench and Diack and McCormish would not be selected

[MBTGOG]

In the big game against Biarritz though, Henry was on the bench.

[geoff998rugby]

Since the Biarritz game, Faloon put in some standard performance and Henry put in some good ones - Henry went ahead of Faloon in the later part of the season and, on performance, justifiably.

[rodders]

What think people about McFadden at 13? I think he has a real chance of nailing a starting berth if he can continue last year's form. (Not at 13 of course as Drico WILL be fit).
Slightly odd pack, but will be interesting to see how they look on Saturday.

Its blatantly obvious, except for the blind and afflicted, Meneer Hurley: 12. McFadden 13. BOD. Master and Pupil. As it was meant to be. As it shall be. For Leinster and Ireland. Then, Earls to take over from BOD. Sorted. No consultancy-fee required.

I better visit the opticians then because that isn't so blatantly obvious to me.

I'll eat my hat if anyone other than D'arcy or Wallace lines out beside BOD at 12 come the 1st WC game. If kidney thought McFadden was next in line for the 12 shirt then he and not Wallace would be wearing in this game, because let's face it McFadden isn't going to challenge BOD for the 13 jersey no matter how well he plays. I suspect Earls would have started at 13 had he been fit.

I'm really looking forward to seeing how McFadden plays though and hopefully he'll put himself in the mix to challenge D'arcy for a starting spot post WC but I do wish people would stop over hyping him until he delivers something substantial on a consistant basis.

With so much younger talent coming through like Marshall, Spence, Hanaran, O'Malley etc. this next 12 months will be make or break for McFadden. I really can't see him being any more than a bit part player in this WC though unless there are injuries to Wallace and Earls and D'arcy fails to recover.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Don't like the idea of Trimble at 13 I gotta say much prefer him as a winger.
There are a lot of other options also to put in there like Earls, Wallace, McFadden, Bowe, Fitzgerald and then an army of young centres coming through. (O'Malley, Spence, marshall, Griffin)

I also would like to point out, that the fact that McCarthy is starting against Scotland does not warrant a load of people saying that Kidney obviously really likes him and is complimenting bringing him in the 30.
Just was reading over a few posts and that struck me there.

[rodders]

Since the Biarritz game, Faloon put in some standard performance and Henry put in some good ones - Henry went ahead of Faloon in the later part of the season and, on performance, justifiably.

I think you and Notch are being a bit harsh there Geoff although I accept you know the players better than I do.

From my perspective our back row (and subsequently the team) was at it's best around the middle of the season when we had a backrow of Ferris, Wannenburg and Faloon. Now obviously Ferris was a massive part of that (as was Wannenburg) but Faloon really impressed me on the occaisions I saw him play.

It was clear that his form dipped towards the end of the season and Henry really stepped up his game but I think you have to give Faloon the benefit of the doubt in that it was a long and gruelling season for a young guy like that to keep punching above his weight.

As much as Henry impressed (and surprised) me with his performances at the end of last season, in my opinion Faloon has the potential to be a top class player and Henry doesn't. I think as Faloon developes physically in the coming seasons he'll be big player for Ulster and perhaps in a couple of seasons for Ireland too.

I could be wrong though but thats my pennies worth.

[red_stag]

I also would like to point out, that the fact that McCarthy is starting against Scotland does not warrant a load of people saying that Kidney obviously really likes him and is complimenting bringing him in the 30.
Just was reading over a few posts and that struck me there.

Don't think its that Kidney really likes him. But he does rate him. He didn't just start him a la Niall Ronan. He's made the official training squad now and made it in the 6 Nations. He's been picked ahead of some very good players.

I think its clear Kidney rates him somewhat.

[MBTGOG]

Don't like the idea of Trimble at 13 I gotta say much prefer him as a winger.
There are a lot of other options also to put in there like Earls, Wallace, McFadden, Bowe, Fitzgerald and then an army of young centres coming through. (O'Malley, Spence, marshall, Griffin)

I also would like to point out, that the fact that McCarthy is starting against Scotland does not warrant a load of people saying that Kidney obviously really likes him and is complimenting bringing him in the 30.
Just was reading over a few posts and that struck me there.

I'm talking about Trimble there during this game after the reshuffle not as a legit option for starting in the future.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

IMO Henry and Jennings come from exactly the same mould. Both are 6.5s and neither are international class, but at least they play the fill-in role, so I would have expected Henry to hold sway for this one.

Hold on there a minute. You are putting Chris Henry in the same bracket as Shane Jennings?

That's a bit like saying posh spice is in the same bracket as Sophia Loren was in 1958.

Shane Jennings is a God. Chris Henry is a fairly decent Rugby player who is as you say not quite international class.

Jennings is a better 7 than the European player of the year SOB. You may have noticed one played 7 in the 1st half of the HC final, the other in the 2nd.

Chris Henry would have his work cut out to get near Rhys Ruddock or Dominick Ryan.

Sorry for the provincialism, but no one disses the Shayno like that.

A pity too, cause there were some good points in the rest of your post.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Apologies MBT thought it was that Trimble should be considered a successor for BOD. I think Fitz will go to 12/13 and probably he and McF will switch and swap.

Stag-
Yeah I think he rates him too but I believe, that he thinks McCarthy isn't at the standard necessary yet. SOB, 1F, Leamy, Ryan, he has to get through all those players realistically.

[red_stag]

There is a window of oppurtunity though for him if Ferris isn't fit. It could come down to him v McLaughlin who also only has 1 cap.

[rodders]

Hold on there a minute. You are putting Chris Henry in the same bracket as Shane Jennings?

That's a bit like saying posh spice is in the same bracket as Sophia Loren was in 1958.

Shane Jennings is a God. Chris Henry is a fairly decent Rugby player who is as you say not quite international class.

Although I'm not sure I'd describe Shane Jennings as 'GOD' and you're a bit harsh on Henry there I agree there is no comparison to be made between the two. Jennings is a far better and more accomplished player than Henry and they are nothing alike in terms of style.

......now Faloon and Jennings on the other hand....

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

true it could. I think McL would be ahead of him.

Part of me thinks Ryan is a certainty as long as he keeps his form up

Then it is down to Jennings vs Leamy (I'd choose Jennings)

then if 1F doesn't make it then Leamy, McL, McCarthy all fight it out

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Am surprised that TGA thinks both Jennings and Henry are 6.5s? Jennings is a genuine, out&out 7 for me if ever I saw one, and Henry's only hope of being thought of as a 7 is because it's half-way between the two positions he best fits (6 & 8)

[Glas a du]

Does that make him an average 7?

[rodders]

Henry's only hope of being thought of as a 7 is because it's half-way between the two positions he best fits (6 & 8)

I think Henry is in a bit of a pickle. I think he'd be an excellent no 8 or 6 if he was two inches taller and a stone and a half heavier.

I don't think he has the hands or pace to be an out and out 7 and he's not a dynamic enough ball carrier or physical enough to be a top 6 or 8. He isn't tall enough to be a good lineout option. To me he's a bit like a more lightweight Dennis Leamy in that he is versatile enough to do a job across the backrow but isn't outstanding in any one position.

That said he has a great attitude and he really performed strongly towards the end of last season, outperforming both Diack and Faloon. I'm sure he'll be an important player for Ulster going forward but I'm not convinced he'll be anything more than a bit part player at International level.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

+1

[Glas a du]

+1

Did this shoite start in America? WTF!!!!????!!!?

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

true it could. I think McL would be ahead of him.

Part of me thinks Ryan is a certainty as long as he keeps his form up

Then it is down to Jennings vs Leamy (I'd choose Jennings)

then if 1F doesn't make it then Leamy, McL, McCarthy all fight it out

Dunno about McL being ahead of McCarthy. McCarthy has played much more in the 2nd row. (I think Kev has 2 outings in the Magners) But Kev has loads of HC experience at 6. McCarthy won't have a HC game until November. Kidney seems to really like McCarthy so who knows.

I think Doncha Ryan is ahead of both for 4th lock though.

The obvious 4 back rows will go (Fez, Sob, Wally, Heaslip) I would have Jennings 5th because he is a 7 and that position has the least cover. Others would choose Leamy because he has more intl experience and that's fair enough.

IF Ferris doesn't make it I suppose the logical choice is to bring Jennings AND Leamy?

[Sin é]

What's the deal with this McCarthy guy? Is he any good? Didn't realise he was pushing 30. Is he likely to make the WC squad? if not I don't see much point in selecting him.

Here's the deal with McCarthy:

Mike I knew from playing underage and playing in Newcastle that he had played a fair bit at six,” said Kidney yesterday, “and he has been playing in the secondrow for a while now, so we just asked Connacht to give him a chance at six and see how it went.

“It’s the same with other guys in that situation, such as Donnacha Ryan, we asked Munster to do that, and with Leinster we talked about Kevin playing secondrow, and with their help they all got a run there.”

Regarding McCarthy, Kidney reckoned: “He’s probably a nightmare to train with in pre-season because he’s always out in front. He’s very athletic, he’d be one of the top trainers. You look at Connacht’s lineout stats – they’ve been excellent, though obviously that comes down to more than a jumper.

“He’s got good ball-handling, and after that we won’t put any more helium into the balloon,” Kidney joked, “because that will only make Saturday more difficult for him. He’s alright. He’s got a bit of an accent, but sure we’ll get over it.”

This tallies with Connacht’s view of him as their line-out caller, which supplements terrific mobility, ball-carrying and work-rate. “It is a really big opportunity and I’m really looking forward to it,” said McCarthy yesterday. “After a good few weeks of pre-season and hard work, getting the chance to play is the easy part, I just want to put a good shift in and hopefully impress all the coaches.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0805/1224301873981.html

[rodders]

The obvious 4 back rows will go (Fez, Sob, Wally, Heaslip) I would have Jennings 5th because he is a 7 and that position has the least cover. Others would choose Leamy because he has more intl experience and that's fair enough.

IF Ferris doesn't make it I suppose the logical choice is to bring Jennings AND Leamy?

I think Leamy will go no matter what. Kidney loves him so I've no doubt whatsoever that he's above Jennings in the pecking order. To me Jennings is the obvious 5th backrower because 7 is his best position and he offers something different but I don't think Kidney will see it that way.

If Ferris doesn't make it then I'm sure it will be Leamy & Jennings.

[Mickado]

My main concern in the backs is that the Sexton – Wallace – McFadden combination which, on paper, looks pretty exciting could be stifled by slow service from O’Leary who’s going to have a tough day at the office if the Scottish backrow get’s the advantage that we all expect them to.

Not necessarily a slight on O’Leary as there are not many SH’s who could marshal their backs well behind a retreating pack, but he’s not exactly famed for his snappy service at the best of times. I hope I’m wrong and he plays a blinder though.

[rodders]

Thanks Sin. Clearly he's getting a big rap from kidney, probably too boost his moral after he gets cut from the squad...

Sounds like some player though, I'm looking forward to seeing him. He's nearly 30 though so I'm surprised he hasn't really featured too much if he's as good as Kidney is making out.

[rodders]

My main concern in the backs is that the Sexton – Wallace – McFadden combination which, on paper, looks pretty exciting could be stifled by slow service from O’Leary who’s going to have a tough day at the office if the Scottish backrow get’s the advantage that we all expect them to.

Not necessarily a slight on O’Leary as there are not many SH’s who could marshal their backs well behind a retreating pack, but he’s not exactly famed for his snappy service at the best of times. I hope I’m wrong and he plays a blinder though.

+1

I think I'll be reserving Judgement on the backline players based on this game as it will be a tough enviroment for them to shine, which is a shame because for some it will be their only chance to show Kidney what they can do.

I hope the guys just concentrate on the basics and playing what is in front of them and don't try to hard to impress.

[Mickado]

For me, no team should be experimental throughout.

How can you truly test a scratch backline when you’ve got a scratch pack who will struggle to secure the ball for them.
I would have gone for a stronger pack to allow the backs more time and space to gel, then gone for a more experienced pack with a settled backline in the next game.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

For me, no team should be experimental throughout.

How can you truly test a scratch backline when you’ve got a scratch pack who will struggle to secure the ball for them.
I would have gone for a stronger pack to allow the backs more time and space to gel, then gone for a more experienced pack with a settled backline in the next game.

I agree 100% with this.

I think it is much more benefitial to try out a small number of players with some experieinced players who are more than likely first choice, than it is to just throw a whole load of inexperienced guys in there.

Only experienced guys internationally in this team are, Wallace, Leamy, Cullen+Tol+Kearney+Fitz+Trimble (to an extent)
Not enough leaders in the pack in my eyes either.

I like that he has gone for broke with his experimental side I just would have done it slightly differently

[Sin é]

For me, no team should be experimental throughout.

How can you truly test a scratch backline when you’ve got a scratch pack who will struggle to secure the ball for them.
I would have gone for a stronger pack to allow the backs more time and space to gel, then gone for a more experienced pack with a settled backline in the next game.

Its not really a scratch backline though - mostly Leinster backs there. Even if Felix Jones comes on, he has played for Leinster and the age grades with all of these guys.

I see the ammunition is being gathered to blame Tomas O'Leary's service already. That pack are going to have a difficult day - so it was always going to be O'Leary or Boss. It will be interesting to see how they both fare behind the same retreating pack.

[rodders]

For me, no team should be experimental throughout.

How can you truly test a scratch backline when you’ve got a scratch pack who will struggle to secure the ball for them.
I would have gone for a stronger pack to allow the backs more time and space to gel, then gone for a more experienced pack with a settled backline in the next game.

I agree totally with this Mickado. I think there is a big flaw in the way we introduce new players into the international set up and judege their 'readiness'. Rather than throwing talented players into big games with experienced players around them we tend to throw all the fringe players in together and then judge them not to be up to scratch when a thrown together side fails to perform to the level of our 1st team.

For some reason we seem to think we are protecting young guys and bedding them in gradually by turfing them out together along with a few journeymen and fringe players.
The best way to see if Ryan and McFadden are up to scratch is to judge them alongside POC and BOD respectively not Wallace and Cullen.

[Mickado]

For me, no team should be experimental throughout.

How can you truly test a scratch backline when you’ve got a scratch pack who will struggle to secure the ball for them.
I would have gone for a stronger pack to allow the backs more time and space to gel, then gone for a more experienced pack with a settled backline in the next game.

I agree 100% with this.

I think it is much more benefitial to try out a small number of players with some experieinced players who are more than likely first choice, than it is to just throw a whole load of inexperienced guys in there.

Only experienced guys internationally in this team are, Wallace, Leamy, Cullen+Tol+Kearney+Fitz+Trimble (to an extent)
Not enough leaders in the pack in my eyes either.

I like that he has gone for broke with his experimental side I just would have done it slightly differently

I’m trying to look at the positives though, Court and Buckley will be playing for their lives, Cronin has been training with Cullen for the past few weeks and should be used to his calls, Ryan is a great foil for Leo, so the second row is strong. 2 jumpers in the back row means we could have a lineout to complicated for the Scots to second guess which would allow us to be less accurate without being ridden! Ronan, while not an international class flanker will look to be first to every breakdown and that speed could be the key to securing some quick ball. Leamy has a massive point to prove and a return to ’06 form would be VERY welcome. McCarthy is another lineout jumper who’ll hopefully be hungry to prove Dekkie right for having faith in him.

As a fella once told me on here. BELIEVE!

[greybeard]

+1

Did this shoite start in America? WTF!!!!????!!!?

+1

[Sin é]

I was castigated for saying that ROG should be starting in the absence of BOD because he has the experience.

You all changing your tune now on the need for experience around?

Most these Irish players play these Scottish players for their club on a regular basis in the Magners and come out on the winning side. They should be well up to it.

[Mickado]

I was castigated for saying that ROG should be starting in the absence of BOD because he has the experience.

You all changing your tune now on the need for experience around?

Most these Irish players play these Scottish players for their club on a regular basis in the Magners and come out on the winning side. They should be well up to it.

Lets just nip the provincial rubbish in the bud, i'm not laying the foundations of bashing any player for starters.
And secondly, i'm saying that Sexton - Wallace - McFadden is an experimental combination, but it's one that needs to be looked at urgently, i'm suggesting that it would be more benficial for them to play infront of a pack that won't be retreating. You wanted to drop Sexton from the equation because you felt that would give us the best chance of winning, 2 totally differnt points.

[rodders]

I was castigated for saying that ROG should be starting in the absence of BOD because he has the experience.

You all changing your tune now on the need for experience around?

If your talking to me then I'm not changing my tune at all. What I was arguing was never that the new players don't need experience around them but that Sexton wasn't inexperienced and didn't need experienced players around him.

As the 1st choice 10 Sexton is exactly the guy that the likes of McFadden and Jones should be playing alongside to judge their capabilities.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

For me, no team should be experimental throughout.

How can you truly test a scratch backline when you’ve got a scratch pack who will struggle to secure the ball for them.
I would have gone for a stronger pack to allow the backs more time and space to gel, then gone for a more experienced pack with a settled backline in the next game.

I agree totally with this Mickado. I think there is a big flaw in the way we introduce new players into the international set up and judege their 'readiness'. Rather than throwing talented players into big games with experienced players around them we tend to throw all the fringe players in together and then judge them not to be up to scratch when a thrown together side fails to perform to the level of our 1st team.

For some reason we seem to think we are protecting young guys and bedding them in gradually by turfing them out together along with a few journeymen and fringe players.
The best way to see if Ryan and McFadden are up to scratch is to judge them alongside POC and BOD respectively not Wallace and Cullen.

Agreed. But I think this game came just a week too early for the 1st choice pack. It's an extra game for all the lads who are playing for the last place or two, and the lads who could travel due to injury.

In an ideal world you would blend things better, but this is the best team that is fit and ready to go.

Cullen, Sexton, Wallace, O'Leary, and Kearney are nailed on for the plane.

Flannery, Cronin, Buckley and Court also.

2 of McFadden, Trimble and Fitz.

Leamy next most likely.

1 of Ryan, McCarthy and McLaughlin (90% Ryan I'd say)

That leaves 5 of the matchday squad who are an injury away from the plane and have to be ready to go. (You could say that Boss and Hayes have an outside chance anyway)

Boss, Jones, Horan, Hayes, Micko

Ronan would need several injuries to get near the plane IMHO. Mainly because of Ireland's relative strength in the back row.

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