Irish Team Naming Thread

[MBTGOG]

First topic message reminder :

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/ Leinster)
14 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
13 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/ Leinster)
12 - Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/ Ulster)
11 - Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/ Leinster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin/ Munster)
1 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
2 - Sean Cronin (Leinster)
3 - Tony Buckley (Sale)
4 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
5 - Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster) Captain
6 - Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/ Connacht)*
7 - Niall Ronan (Shannon/ Munster)
8 - Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)

Replacements:
16 - Jerry Flannery (Shannon/ Munster)
17 - Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster)
18 - John Hayes (Bruff/Munster)
19 - Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/ Munster)
20 - Kevin McLaughlin (St Mary's College/ Leinster)
21 - Isaac Boss (Terenure College/ Leinster)
22 - Felix Jones (Shannon/ Munster)*

[thebandwagonsociety]

Jen - +1 completely agree with what you've said

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I was castigated for saying that ROG should be starting in the absence of BOD because he has the experience.

You all changing your tune now on the need for experience around?

Most these Irish players play these Scottish players for their club on a regular basis in the Magners and come out on the winning side. They should be well up to it.

The backs actually have quite a lot of experience Sincompared to the pack so your point is somewhat off key.
We were saying it would be good for these players in the backs (who have some experience but are in different combinations) had good ball to work with.

TOL plays his part in providing slow ball but it will mainly come from the pack IMHO. There is precious little experience, leadership, experience in combinations or out and out talent in the pack

[Sin é]

I was castigated for saying that ROG should be starting in the absence of BOD because he has the experience.

You all changing your tune now on the need for experience around?

Most these Irish players play these Scottish players for their club on a regular basis in the Magners and come out on the winning side. They should be well up to it.

Lets just nip the provincial rubbish in the bud, i'm not laying the foundations of bashing any player for starters.
And secondly, i'm saying that Sexton - Wallace - McFadden is an experimental combination, but it's one that needs to be looked at urgently, i'm suggesting that it would be more benficial for them to play infront of a pack that won't be retreating. You wanted to drop Sexton from the equation because you felt that would give us the best chance of winning, 2 totally differnt points.

Well, it looks like you are having a go at O'Leary because of his slow service already even though the pack might be under severe pressure. Why single him out for mention as being a problem prior to the match? If O'Leary is having a problem, the team are having a problem.

And no, I didn't want to drop Sexton. And I didn't put ROG in there to win. I don't know how you came to that conclusion. Thats complete rubbish.

I'm quite happy with Sexton starting with most of his Leinster teamates around him, including Leo Cullen as captain. They will be well used to working together.

In a scratch backline, without BOD, I'd have O'Gara because of his experience.

[rodders]

In a scratch backline, without BOD, I'd have O'Gara because of his experience.

So your logic is that when we are missing our 1st choice scrum half and centres we should drop our 1st choice fly half as well?

[Mickado]

Jesus.

O’Leary has strengths and weaknesses. When he’s on song he’s the starter in the grand slam team. But for all his good form speed of delivery was never his gift. All I’m saying is that it would be better to play an experimental 10-12-13 combo outside of a scrum half who’s pass is quicker, given that he will be under pressure from a retreating pack (most probably). I know WHY O’Leary was picked, and I agree he needs the game time, It’s just not the ideal situation.

You wanted ROG to start because O’Driscoll isn’t there. But the point that you fail to grasp is that Sexton is part of the experiment, if you start ROG then how will we ever know how well Sexton-Wallace- McFadden will play together.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

The backline isn't that scratch though Sin. It's new combinations but McFadden is the only one with less than 10 caps.

It would be nice if the new combinations had a solid platform off quick ball. I don't think they will get that because...TOL isn't good at supplying quick ball AND I dont think the pack will get dominance or even parity very often.

I do think that TOL needs this game though to get sharpness back

[Sin é]

I was castigated for saying that ROG should be starting in the absence of BOD because he has the experience.

You all changing your tune now on the need for experience around?

Most these Irish players play these Scottish players for their club on a regular basis in the Magners and come out on the winning side. They should be well up to it.

The backs actually have quite a lot of experience Sincompared to the pack so your point is somewhat off key.
We were saying it would be good for these players in the backs (who have some experience but are in different combinations) had good ball to work with.

TOL plays his part in providing slow ball but it will mainly come from the pack IMHO. There is precious little experience, leadership, experience in combinations or out and out talent in the pack

I was commenting on a selection that featured Wallace at 12 and Earls at 13 with no experience playing together - thats why I would have had ROG there. Sexton has no experience of playing with Wallace or Earls. Now, he is more or less surrounded by guys he plays regularly with Wallace the exception who is an experienced player, if not hugely experienced at international level.

Sean Cronin is one of the leaders in Connacht - and he seemed to thrive in it - this might well be the making of him internationally. Both Cullen & Leamy have captained their clubs, so I don't think its as leaderless as you are making out.

As for the combinations - Cronin will have trained a lot with Cullen over the last two months, now that they are both with Leinster. And 7, 8, 9 are well used to playing with each other at their clubs.

[greybeard]

I think this will be Cronins break-out game and he'll score his first points in an Ireland shirt. This is pretty much his first ever game without massive pressure on his shoulders and I think he'll thrive on it.

[Sin é]

In a scratch backline, without BOD, I'd have O'Gara because of his experience.

So your logic is that when we are missing our 1st choice scrum half and centres we should drop our 1st choice fly half as well?

I don't think there is a first choice or second choice rigid rule.

I think there are horses for courses - for example, I'd have O'Leary starting against Australia becuause of his pace and cover defence/physicality.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I think this will be Cronins break-out game and he'll score his first points in an Ireland shirt. This is pretty much his first ever game without massive pressure on his shoulders and I think he'll thrive on it.

Not sure about his first points but it is his first chance where he doesn't have all of Ireland staring at him which must be nice

[Sin é]

The backline isn't that scratch though Sin. It's new combinations but McFadden is the only one with less than 10 caps.

It would be nice if the new combinations had a solid platform off quick ball. I don't think they will get that because...TOL isn't good at supplying quick ball AND I dont think the pack will get dominance or even parity very often.

I do think that TOL needs this game though to get sharpness back

I think I was the first one here to refute the point made that it isn't a scratch backline

Only new combination in the backs is Sexton/Wallace and Wallace/McFadden.

The point that I'm making about Tomas O'Leary is that maybe the reason why he isn't supplying quick ball is because his pack is on the backfoot and he isn't able to supply it. Reddan wasn't able to supply quick ball in the Magners final when his pack were on the back foot either for instance.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

That is part of the reason but even on the front foot TOL takes longer than all the other 9's to get the ball out, he takes longer to make up his mind, his pass takes longer to reach its mark.

Either way i think the pack will be more influential in the lack of ball for the backs and the lack of quick ball.

I just hope the Scots kick lots

[red_stag]

Pete I think that idea is very over played. TOL is slower than Stringer but to me he isn't all that slower than Reddan.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Stag-
We can agree to disagree I think, can't we?

[red_stag]

Stag-
We can agree to disagree I think, can't we?

We can (but your wrong)

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Right back at ya!

[rodders]

The point that I'm making about Tomas O'Leary is that maybe the reason why he isn't supplying quick ball is because his pack is on the backfoot and he isn't able to supply it. Reddan wasn't able to supply quick ball in the Magners final when his pack were on the back foot either for instance.

The reason O'leary's service is so slow is because when the ball is at his feet it takes him a minute and a half to bloody make up his mind what to do with it.

The only way the pack could speed up TOL's service is to supply him the ball with instructions what to do next written on it.

[red_stag]

The reason O'leary's service is so slow is because when the ball is at his feet it takes him a minute and a half to bloody make up his mind what to do with it.

Ah yes the usual exaggeation thats trotted out with this.

[rodders]

Ah yes the usual exaggeation thats trotted out with this.

Stag it's actually closer to 2 minutes but I'm trying to be positive here.

[Sin é]

Ah yes the usual exaggeation thats trotted out with this.

Stag it's actually closer to 2 minutes but I'm trying to be positive here.

Another positive is that at least he is able to protect the ball and doesn't get turned over when it does come out

[Thomond]

O'Leary has slow service,Reddan's is slightly better,Boss is around the same and Murray/Stringer are the fastest. O'Leary isn't indecisive,he just takes 2 steps before shuffling it out which means our backs have defenders staring right at them.

[rodders]

[Another positive is that at least he is able to protect the ball and doesn't get turned over when it does come out

He doesn't need to get turned over. When the ball eventually comes out he usually boots it away....

[Thomond]

If he could kick it,it would be genius. With the defence so far up in his face there is plenty space in behind. The day he gets that kick right,could be great

[rodders]

If he could kick it,it would be genius. With the defence so far up in his face there is plenty space in behind. The day he gets that kick right,could be great

Sorry your'e right enough there. TOL only kicks the ball away when the space is out wide or straight in front of him.

[Sin é]

More cliches

O'Leary kicked the ball 3 times in the last 6Nations. Once against Italy and twice against France.

For context:

Against England alone, Reddan kicked the ball 3 times.

[Mickado]

More cliches

O'Leary kicked the ball 3 times in the last 6Nations. Once against Italy and twice against France.

For context:

Against England alone, Reddan kicked the ball 3 times.

But we beat England.

[Thomond]

if he could do a good job at it,I don't think people would mind. Box kicks in general are a bit of a waste of time.

[rodders]

More cliches

O'Leary kicked the ball 3 times in the last 6Nations. Once against Italy and twice against France.

For context:

Against England alone, Reddan kicked the ball 3 times.

More meaningless stats

It's not about the volume of kicking but the effectiveness with in the context of a game.

Call me picky but box kicking turnover ball inside the opposition half straight into touch, just before half time (as O'Leary did against France) isn't great use of possession.

[red_stag]

I know but Rodders once again its this meaningless once off instance you keep harping back to. You keep insinuating that this is a repeat tactic.

If I based my views of Eoin Reddan on his performance in Ireland v South Africa 2010 I genuinely would never have him for Ireland, Leinster or the Old Belvedere 3rds.

But I took it for what it was a once off.

[Sin é]

More cliches

O'Leary kicked the ball 3 times in the last 6Nations. Once against Italy and twice against France.

For context:

Against England alone, Reddan kicked the ball 3 times.

But we beat England.

I know. Here is a comparison to a game we lost then.

Against Wales, Stringer kicked the ball 4 times.

[valjester]

if he could do a good job at it,I don't think people would mind. Box kicks in general are a bit of a waste of time.

Murray is the only Irish scrumhalf who seems to be able to do good box kicks.

[rodders]

I know but Rodders once again its this meaningless once off instance you keep harping back to. You keep insinuating that this is a repeat tactic.

If I based my views of Eoin Reddan on his performance in Ireland v South Africa 2010 I genuinely would never have him for Ireland, Leinster or the Old Belvedere 3rds.

But I took it for what it was a once off.

It's not a one off though stag. If you look back over O'Learys performances his box kicking has always been terrible. He kicks too far and often at the wrong times. Even in 2009. The difference was we used to be a team that enjoyed playing with out the ball and slowing the opposition down. You can't do that any more so any time you kick possession away stupidly you get punished.

Reddan was terrible against SA but he's been playing well all season since then. I can't remember the last time I saw a good game from TOL. Certainly not since the law interpretation changes.

[rodders]

if he could do a good job at it,I don't think people would mind. Box kicks in general are a bit of a waste of time.

Murray is the only Irish scrumhalf who seems to be able to do good box kicks.

He's very good but so are Reddan and Boss.

[Sin é]

More cliches

O'Leary kicked the ball 3 times in the last 6Nations. Once against Italy and twice against France.

For context:

Against England alone, Reddan kicked the ball 3 times.

More meaningless stats

You should read this thread, in particular this bit:

Remember that most general wind-up posts are pretty easily shot down by hard facts. Remember also to be gracious if someone offers up evidence that suggests you're wrong - everyone's wrong occasionly. Even me. Though I like to think I fess up when I realise I'm wrong.

https://www.606v2.com/t10794-general-behaviour-on-the-rugby-board-please-read

[rodders]

You should read this thread, in particular this bit:

Remember that most general wind-up posts are pretty easily shot down by hard facts. Remember also to be gracious if someone offers up evidence that suggests you're wrong - everyone's wrong occasionly. Even me. Though I like to think I fess up when I realise I'm wrong.

https://www.606v2.com/t10794-general-behaviour-on-the-rugby-board-please-read

Quite right Sin TOL doesn't kick as much as I thought. Maybe it's because when he does kick it tends to stick in the memory because the kicks are so awful.

[valjester]

if he could do a good job at it,I don't think people would mind. Box kicks in general are a bit of a waste of time.

Murray is the only Irish scrumhalf who seems to be able to do good box kicks.

He's very good but so are Reddan and Boss.

Don't agree with you, I've never been overly impressed with either of them especially reddan.

[Sin é]

if he could do a good job at it,I don't think people would mind. Box kicks in general are a bit of a waste of time.

Murray is the only Irish scrumhalf who seems to be able to do good box kicks.

He's very good but so are Reddan and Boss.

I don't recall seeing Boss box kick that much, so I'm not going to compare them, but I would put Murray ahead of Reddan. Murray has a big boot and gets the ball to hang up there superbly for someone to run onto. Might have something to do with the fact that he also place kicks.

[geoff998rugby]

Can't agree with Rodders re Boss and box kicks - not a good exponent of them in my view.

[Mickado]

None of the current Irish scrum halves have a good kicking game. Murray does, but he’s currently not an Irish scrum half.

[Notch]

Boss fills me with as much dread when he box kicks as O'Leary does; both should be encouraged to play more to their strengths! Haven't seen Bossy dping much aimless box kicking at Leinster.

[Mickado]

Boss fills me with as much dread when he box kicks as O'Leary does; both should be encouraged to play more to their strengths! Haven't seen Bossy dping much aimless box kicking at Leinster.

Neither have I, and i was looking out for it because that's exactly what i expected him to do when he got here.

[rodders]

Fair points maybe Boss isn't the best. I'm thinking of this season only were certainly his kicking was of a decent standard any time I saw him as was Reddans. His kicking (and passing) has certainly improved since leaving Ulster but I've always thought he was a good player.

I agree Sin Murray's kicking is particularly good. In fact in probably every aspect he's better than the other scrum halves but he's come along too late for this WC.

[MMC]

MBT,

Are we going to use this old dinosaur for the announcement later or start a new one?

[MBTGOG]

I'll start a new one MMC now.

[Boyne]

New one plz

[MMC]

I'll start a new one MMC now.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Cheers MBT.

[Glas a du]

We the Irish team name this thread Berty.

[GunsGerms]

15 Kearney
14 Bowe
13 Drico
11 Darce/Wallace if injured
10 Sexton (will Wallace start at 10 v Connacht?)
9 TOL
8 Heaslip
7Obrien
6 Ferris if fit otherwise Wallace at 7 OBrien 6
5 DOC
4 Poc
3 Ross
2 Flannery
1 Healy

Will this be the team?

[GunsGerms]

Sorry meant Darce 12
11 Earls

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