England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
First topic message reminder :
2 tries for Hartley at 12 .
Fdjour decent first scrum then missed some tackles etc.
Sales two wingers Reed and Roebuck were very impressive....
Bath v Cardiff now...lots of potential England options here.
2 tries for Hartley at 12 .
Fdjour decent first scrum then missed some tackles etc.
Sales two wingers Reed and Roebuck were very impressive....
Bath v Cardiff now...lots of potential England options here.
Geordie- Posts : 28818
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Personally wouldn't pick either of them especially in the current system. A midfield of Tuilagi and Slade with Lawrence on the bench could work well. Lawrence in the wider squad. WOuld rather he didn't look to Smith at full back, Carpenter could get a chance, though he's looke a bit shaky in recent weeks.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Slade...no thanks. Had more than enough chances ...that ship has sailed.
Lawrence the form 13...has to play. And not at 12.
Was hot on Carpenter but gone off him a bit. Shame Hodge is injured.
9 Spencer
10 Marcus
11 Murley
12 Manu...
13 Lawrence
14 Freeman
15 Steward
Lawrence the form 13...has to play. And not at 12.
Was hot on Carpenter but gone off him a bit. Shame Hodge is injured.
9 Spencer
10 Marcus
11 Murley
12 Manu...
13 Lawrence
14 Freeman
15 Steward
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Your revised wish list? or the list you think Borthwick is going with now?
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
My lineup for today...but that will change tomorrow.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
I'm surprised you've gone back to Tuilagi then, but he is breaking a lot of tackles.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
As you know its getting the right balance of power and guile/ skill.
Manu must be eased out over the next 12 months (preferably earlier) ...but if hes playing reasonably well as he is at the moment...hes useful short term foil for Smith at 10 (and allows Lawrence to do his business.)
Ojomoh shows glimpses of real excellence...but then glimpses of not being ready....Atkinson is in a poorly performing team..
Dingwall is the interesting one from me...from what i was reading about him. I also read that despite his frame hes an absolute brick wall when you hit him. See if i can find the article.
The problem is that where lawrence is standing out as THE candidate for 13....none of them are doing it for 12 yet.
Manu must be eased out over the next 12 months (preferably earlier) ...but if hes playing reasonably well as he is at the moment...hes useful short term foil for Smith at 10 (and allows Lawrence to do his business.)
Ojomoh shows glimpses of real excellence...but then glimpses of not being ready....Atkinson is in a poorly performing team..
Dingwall is the interesting one from me...from what i was reading about him. I also read that despite his frame hes an absolute brick wall when you hit him. See if i can find the article.
The problem is that where lawrence is standing out as THE candidate for 13....none of them are doing it for 12 yet.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
I'd be looking towards Lawrence, Ojomoh, Kelly...and frankly Freeman at 13 looks miles better than on the wing.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
No 7&1/2 wrote:I'd be looking towards Lawrence, Ojomoh, Kelly...and frankly Freeman at 13 looks miles better than on the wing.
Yes i would agree with that.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Do you see Lawrence as a 12?
Geordie- Posts : 28818
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Think he's got the skillset to play there yeah, probably more than Tuilagi had to be fair.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Lawrence was really good at 12 when he played there so no reason why not again. Ruling him out playing there seems a bit limiting especially given Manu injury record
mountain man- Posts : 3210
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Not limiting him...just think sometimes we're so quick to look for the next cab off the rank..we haven't even tried the headliner yet...
Lawrence is playing superb rugby...now it maybe that Russell the reason...but Marcus can be the same playmaker.
Freeman may well be the 13 elect for years to come...and Lawrence does have the skills to make a good go at 12.
Ironically in a year or two there could be almighty competition for 12 and 13...simply unheard of.
Lawrence is playing superb rugby...now it maybe that Russell the reason...but Marcus can be the same playmaker.
Freeman may well be the 13 elect for years to come...and Lawrence does have the skills to make a good go at 12.
Ironically in a year or two there could be almighty competition for 12 and 13...simply unheard of.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Geordie wrote:Slade...no thanks. Had more than enough chances ...that ship has sailed.
Lawrence the form 13...has to play. And not at 12.
Was hot on Carpenter but gone off him a bit. Shame Hodge is injured.
9 Spencer
10 Marcus
11 Murley
12 Manu...
13 Lawrence
14 Freeman
15 Steward
I'd expect Borthwick to try and keep some more experience in that backline to be honest. I'm not a big Mitchell fan but I'd expect him to be there. Watson if he can pick up a semblance of form will come onto one wing as well. Manu and Lawrence makes sense, a continuation from the world cup squad in a way there.
10 is up in the air given Ford is out of form, Marcus Smith doesn't appear to have fixed his weaknesses and Fin Smith is very inexperienced despite looking well rounded for a flyhalf of his age.
If Watson doesn't recover enough form I think Roebuck is another that could come in on that right wing.
9. Mitchell
10. ?
11. ?
12. Manu
13. Lawrence
14. Watson
15. Steward
21. Spencer/Quirke/ Warr/JVP (rumours he might make his return early Jan)
22. ?
23. Freeman (his form and utility surely make him a great option)
That 11 spot still feels wide open as well.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Think Murley is ready for a shot on the wing.
Watson has been a top winger for Ebgland but we can't keep relying on..IF he's fit.
Time to move on and look at bringing through the next generation. Murley, Roebuck, Sleightholme (who has had his own injury issues admittedly), Reed, David etc
I hope that SB will be looking to keep Manu to the short term also as he brings the next gen through or moves Lawrence there.
Watson has been a top winger for Ebgland but we can't keep relying on..IF he's fit.
Time to move on and look at bringing through the next generation. Murley, Roebuck, Sleightholme (who has had his own injury issues admittedly), Reed, David etc
I hope that SB will be looking to keep Manu to the short term also as he brings the next gen through or moves Lawrence there.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Ant Watson needs to show some form but if he does he's a certainty. He's 29 with more than 50 caps and a Lions Test player. When you've got a young fullback and a likely rookie wing on the other side then being able to pick someone of the quality and experience of Watson makes sense.
Similar to sticking with Manu at centre. Short term option whilst the rest of the backline settles in. Revolution sounds like a good idea but evolution helps maintain a lot of the organisation, particularly in defence, that helps provide more time to work on cohesion and strike moves in attack.
Similar to sticking with Manu at centre. Short term option whilst the rest of the backline settles in. Revolution sounds like a good idea but evolution helps maintain a lot of the organisation, particularly in defence, that helps provide more time to work on cohesion and strike moves in attack.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
I'm not disputing Watsons credentials Sam just his ability to be available these days.
With that one factor in mind , if we're going for experience I'd rather go for Daly.
I get the Manu selection far more..as he's playing OK and the potential alternatives aren't quite saying "pick me"
With that one factor in mind , if we're going for experience I'd rather go for Daly.
I get the Manu selection far more..as he's playing OK and the potential alternatives aren't quite saying "pick me"
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Could just go with Daly and Watson.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Could. Would agree both would be a safe pair of hands. But that doesn't move us forward. I think there seems to be a lot of younger wing talent who are looking for an opportunity.No 7&1/2 wrote:Could just go with Daly and Watson.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Yeah. True. I'm going through the motions doc.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
No 7&1/2 wrote:Could just go with Daly and Watson.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Manu out for some of the 6 now...
Cue
12 Lawrence
13 Joseph/ Freeman
Cue
12 Lawrence
13 Joseph/ Freeman
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
doctor_grey wrote:Could. Would agree both would be a safe pair of hands. But that doesn't move us forward. I think there seems to be a lot of younger wing talent who are looking for an opportunity.No 7&1/2 wrote:Could just go with Daly and Watson.
Yeah I'd go for one or the other and pair them with a younger option. Start developing the younger options in a back three with Steward and an experienced winger now and hopefully replace the experienced winger in the summer.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Geordie wrote:Manu out for some of the 6 now...
Cue
12 Lawrence
13 Joseph/ Freeman
Do you see Lawrence as a 12?
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
No 7&1/2 wrote:Geordie wrote:Manu out for some of the 6 now...
Cue
12 Lawrence
13 Joseph/ Freeman
Do you see Lawrence as a 12?
Down the line very possibly...but not yet.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
So hope he delivers this time or just realise there's no one else? Can Borthwicl risk that while people are hoping for 3rd place finishes?
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
In the right set up he will deliver....but this is where competition I'd good..and it will either drive him on...or the newcomers will overtake him..
But thats evolution...and Lawrence is only 23 so let's give him a chance.
Let him play in his best spot at the moment...and develop a 12. It maybe that Lawrence looks better at 12 down the years and rhats fine...but that's a problem you can handle then.
Bath aren't suddenly going to start playing him at 12...
But thats evolution...and Lawrence is only 23 so let's give him a chance.
Let him play in his best spot at the moment...and develop a 12. It maybe that Lawrence looks better at 12 down the years and rhats fine...but that's a problem you can handle then.
Bath aren't suddenly going to start playing him at 12...
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
So appreciate its a work I'm progress and hope the other can pick up the loose. Fair enough.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Yeah well it was mentioned he is just too injury prone these days. I can see Lawrence at 12. He'll be fine as he was when he played there previously for England.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
With Manu out I'm not really sure that there is much choice at inside centre (even less than usual). If we don't go for Lawrence at 12, who else is there with any sort of international experience? It isn't like we can shove Farrell in there (and kick the can down the road again). Lawrence may not be playing in the position for Bath, but at least has played there at international level.
My biggest worry is that he is going to get injured between now and then (plenty of rugby to be played in that period).
My biggest worry is that he is going to get injured between now and then (plenty of rugby to be played in that period).
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
No 7&1/2 wrote:So appreciate its a work I'm progress and hope the other can pick up the loose. Fair enough.
I don't get what your meaning? I know you want Lawrence permanently at 12 and your main man Freeman at 13...but I want the best players at the moment in the best positions...which means Lawrence at 13.
And bath aren't going to move him anytime soon.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Cumbrian wrote:With Manu out I'm not really sure that there is much choice at inside centre (even less than usual). If we don't go for Lawrence at 12, who else is there with any sort of international experience? It isn't like we can shove Farrell in there (and kick the can down the road again). Lawrence may not be playing in the position for Bath, but at least has played there at international level.
My biggest worry is that he is going to get injured between now and then (plenty of rugby to be played in that period).
Why does the 12 have to have international experience?
This side is going to have a number of very low experienced players...but there's only one way you increase that.
If they're that bothered...they can pick Ford at 10.
Maybe Look at a club combo of Ojomoh and Lawrence for Italy and Maybe Manu is back after rhat
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Geordie wrote:Cumbrian wrote:With Manu out I'm not really sure that there is much choice at inside centre (even less than usual). If we don't go for Lawrence at 12, who else is there with any sort of international experience? It isn't like we can shove Farrell in there (and kick the can down the road again). Lawrence may not be playing in the position for Bath, but at least has played there at international level.
My biggest worry is that he is going to get injured between now and then (plenty of rugby to be played in that period).
Why does the 12 have to have international experience?
This side is going to have a number of very low experienced players...but there's only one way you increase that.
If they're that bothered...they can pick Ford at 10.
Maybe Look at a club combo of Ojomoh and Lawrence for Italy and Maybe Manu is back after rhat
I agree that there is going to be relatively little experience in the backline. Which is why I think it is important that at least one of the two centres has some sort of experience of what it is like to play international rugby, because if we go for Joseph or Freeman there will be very little in the other centre berth. Italy could be a real banana skin first up, and I think some form of leadership will be important in the midfield.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Geordie wrote:No 7&1/2 wrote:So appreciate its a work I'm progress and hope the other can pick up the loose. Fair enough.
I don't get what your meaning? I know you want Lawrence permanently at 12 and your main man Freeman at 13...but I want the best players at the moment in the best positions...which means Lawrence at 13.
And bath aren't going to move him anytime soon.
Not sure I want Lawremce at 12 permanently or I've ever said that. Just a question around you wanting him at 12....but wanting him at 14 eventually. Or do you want him at 13 now?
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Cumbrian wrote:Geordie wrote:Cumbrian wrote:With Manu out I'm not really sure that there is much choice at inside centre (even less than usual). If we don't go for Lawrence at 12, who else is there with any sort of international experience? It isn't like we can shove Farrell in there (and kick the can down the road again). Lawrence may not be playing in the position for Bath, but at least has played there at international level.
My biggest worry is that he is going to get injured between now and then (plenty of rugby to be played in that period).
Why does the 12 have to have international experience?
This side is going to have a number of very low experienced players...but there's only one way you increase that.
If they're that bothered...they can pick Ford at 10.
Maybe Look at a club combo of Ojomoh and Lawrence for Italy and Maybe Manu is back after rhat
I agree that there is going to be relatively little experience in the backline. Which is why I think it is important that at least one of the two centres has some sort of experience of what it is like to play international rugby, because if we go for Joseph or Freeman there will be very little in the other centre berth. Italy could be a real banana skin first up, and I think some form of leadership will be important in the midfield.
It very much is a potential banana skin but that could be based much more on tactics and favour towards experience than favouring youth...
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
No 7&1/2 wrote:Geordie wrote:No 7&1/2 wrote:So appreciate its a work I'm progress and hope the other can pick up the loose. Fair enough.
I don't get what your meaning? I know you want Lawrence permanently at 12 and your main man Freeman at 13...but I want the best players at the moment in the best positions...which means Lawrence at 13.
And bath aren't going to move him anytime soon.
Not sure I want Lawremce at 12 permanently or I've ever said that. Just a question around you wanting him at 12....but wanting him at 14 eventually. Or do you want him at 13 now?
Are you drunk?
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Looks like Tuilagi is injured again. Five or six week with a torn groin muscle. Will miss the start of the Six Nations.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Catch up Doc...that's what we're discussingdoctor_grey wrote:Looks like Tuilagi is injured again. Five or six week with a torn groin muscle. Will miss the start of the Six Nations.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Bevan's Rodd out of the full 6n now aswell...
Marler, Genge, Obano
Marler, Genge, Obano
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
No 7&1/2 wrote:Cumbrian wrote:Geordie wrote:Cumbrian wrote:With Manu out I'm not really sure that there is much choice at inside centre (even less than usual). If we don't go for Lawrence at 12, who else is there with any sort of international experience? It isn't like we can shove Farrell in there (and kick the can down the road again). Lawrence may not be playing in the position for Bath, but at least has played there at international level.
My biggest worry is that he is going to get injured between now and then (plenty of rugby to be played in that period).
Why does the 12 have to have international experience?
This side is going to have a number of very low experienced players...but there's only one way you increase that.
If they're that bothered...they can pick Ford at 10.
Maybe Look at a club combo of Ojomoh and Lawrence for Italy and Maybe Manu is back after rhat
I agree that there is going to be relatively little experience in the backline. Which is why I think it is important that at least one of the two centres has some sort of experience of what it is like to play international rugby, because if we go for Joseph or Freeman there will be very little in the other centre berth. Italy could be a real banana skin first up, and I think some form of leadership will be important in the midfield.
It very much is a potential banana skin but that could be based much more on tactics and favour towards experience than favouring youth...
You want a mix. Favouring one or the other isn't great for us.
We don't want either of;
Care, Ford, Daly, Lawrence, Slade, Watson, Steward
Nor
Quirke, Smith, Murley, Atkinson, Lawrence, Freeman, Steward
Need to find the right balance or form, youth and experience.
Italy are a potential banana skin but it's still got to be a game we expect to win. Given how new the side is going to be then we'll need to go strong straight from the go.
Last edited by formerly known as Sam on Thu Dec 28, 2023 10:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
formerly known as Sam wrote:No 7&1/2 wrote:Cumbrian wrote:Geordie wrote:Cumbrian wrote:With Manu out I'm not really sure that there is much choice at inside centre (even less than usual). If we don't go for Lawrence at 12, who else is there with any sort of international experience? It isn't like we can shove Farrell in there (and kick the can down the road again). Lawrence may not be playing in the position for Bath, but at least has played there at international level.
My biggest worry is that he is going to get injured between now and then (plenty of rugby to be played in that period).
Why does the 12 have to have international experience?
This side is going to have a number of very low experienced players...but there's only one way you increase that.
If they're that bothered...they can pick Ford at 10.
Maybe Look at a club combo of Ojomoh and Lawrence for Italy and Maybe Manu is back after rhat
I agree that there is going to be relatively little experience in the backline. Which is why I think it is important that at least one of the two centres has some sort of experience of what it is like to play international rugby, because if we go for Joseph or Freeman there will be very little in the other centre berth. Italy could be a real banana skin first up, and I think some form of leadership will be important in the midfield.
It very much is a potential banana skin but that could be based much more on tactics and favour towards experience than favouring youth...
You want a mix. Favouring one or the other isn't great for us.
We don't want either of;
Care, Ford, Daly, Lawrence, Slade, Watson, Steward
Nor
Quirke, Smith, Murley, Atkinson, Lawrence, Freeman, Steward
Need to find the right balance or form, youth and experience.
I agree Ssm...and ideally everyone one in their right positions....
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Sorry gents. I started reading a discussion about centres, which if we change the names is the same discussion since Greenwood. I thought if I started the discussion at the beginning I would have to go back to 2005!Geordie wrote:Catch up Doc...that's what we're discussingdoctor_grey wrote:Looks like Tuilagi is injured again. Five or six week with a torn groin muscle. Will miss the start of the Six Nations.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Too much of it is the pairing is never settled or we then use them in a way they don't when they're impressing for their clubs. Lawrence was pretty quickly written off by some after his first few games but we weren't passing to the centres much and still don't. Given that I am surprised we haven't seen a Kelly Slade combo line up yet.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
doctor_grey wrote:Sorry gents. I started reading a discussion about centres, which if we change the names is the same discussion since Greenwood. I thought if I started the discussion at the beginning I would have to go back to 2005!Geordie wrote:Catch up Doc...that's what we're discussingdoctor_grey wrote:Looks like Tuilagi is injured again. Five or six week with a torn groin muscle. Will miss the start of the Six Nations.
That made me look at what happened to Ayoola Erinle. After rugby, he got a first class degree in Engineering & Physics. His last year project was "a mathematical model for the flight of rotating oval shaped balls" with "some work on semi-minor axial rotation (end-over-end) but not that much on semi-major axial rotation (spiral)".
He now works as a Maritime Engineer with the MoD.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
No 7&1/2 wrote:Too much of it is the pairing is never settled or we then use them in a way they don't when they're impressing for their clubs. Lawrence was pretty quickly written off by some after his first few games but we weren't passing to the centres much and still don't. Given that I am surprised we haven't seen a Kelly Slade combo line up yet.
Possibly due to what Geordie has been saying about Lawrence having to adjust to less time and more defensive pressure at 12 than where he normally plays at 13.
If you have no ability to vary your game and need to be in the same structure you have at club rugby then your international career is either not going to happen or is going to be very short.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Think people expect too much though in terms of replicating what they do for their club at international level instead of basing assessment on what they're being asked to do and how well they do that.
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Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
formerly known as Sam wrote:No 7&1/2 wrote:Cumbrian wrote:Geordie wrote:Cumbrian wrote:With Manu out I'm not really sure that there is much choice at inside centre (even less than usual). If we don't go for Lawrence at 12, who else is there with any sort of international experience? It isn't like we can shove Farrell in there (and kick the can down the road again). Lawrence may not be playing in the position for Bath, but at least has played there at international level.
My biggest worry is that he is going to get injured between now and then (plenty of rugby to be played in that period).
Why does the 12 have to have international experience?
This side is going to have a number of very low experienced players...but there's only one way you increase that.
If they're that bothered...they can pick Ford at 10.
Maybe Look at a club combo of Ojomoh and Lawrence for Italy and Maybe Manu is back after rhat
I agree that there is going to be relatively little experience in the backline. Which is why I think it is important that at least one of the two centres has some sort of experience of what it is like to play international rugby, because if we go for Joseph or Freeman there will be very little in the other centre berth. Italy could be a real banana skin first up, and I think some form of leadership will be important in the midfield.
It very much is a potential banana skin but that could be based much more on tactics and favour towards experience than favouring youth...
You want a mix. Favouring one or the other isn't great for us.
We don't want either of;
Care, Ford, Daly, Lawrence, Slade, Watson, Steward
Nor
Quirke, Smith, Murley, Atkinson, Lawrence, Freeman, Steward
Need to find the right balance or form, youth and experience.
Italy are a potential banana skin but it's still got to be a game we expect to win. Given how new the side is going to be then we'll need to go strong straight from the go.
Agreed about the mix of experience and youth, I wouldn't be against something like:
09. Mitchell
10. Smith
11. Young exciting winger, take your pick.
12. Lawrence
13. Slade
14. Watson
15. Steward
I can appreciate that including Slade would really annoy some, but to me he is having an Indian summer in his career and could help settle the backline and bring through someone like Freeman from the bench.
Cumbrian- Posts : 5579
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 41
Location : Bath
Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
You could make an argument for just about all of these:
09. Mitchell
10. Smith
11. Young exciting winger, - Hendy
12. Dingwall
13. Freeman
14. Sleightholme
15. Furbank
Would leave Saints a bit short of backs though
09. Mitchell
10. Smith
11. Young exciting winger, - Hendy
12. Dingwall
13. Freeman
14. Sleightholme
15. Furbank
Would leave Saints a bit short of backs though
WELL-PAST-IT- Posts : 3732
Join date : 2011-06-01
Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
No doubts!WELL-PAST-IT wrote:You could make an argument for just about all of these:
09. Mitchell
10. Smith
11. Young exciting winger, - Hendy
12. Dingwall
13. Freeman
14. Sleightholme
15. Furbank
Would leave Saints a bit short of backs though
Hendy is injured. Litchfield is a bit more solid at 16 stone and can play centre or wing At 21, excellent pace and still developing nicely, as we saw with that game winning score against Gloucester.
Presumably you have Smith, The Fin at 10 and Smith, The Quin, on the bench?
Funnily enough, your suggestion would be a back line with plenty of attack, whilst omitting the players who can't defend. On one hand, I would really like to see how this would work. One would certainly see a much more effective attack, and Dingwall is an effective distributor, attack runner. and defender (he is so much better defensively when he does not need to help cover for Hutchinson). Wish his frame could carry another 10-15 pounds, or more simply, one stone more weight. On the other hand, this could never happen, and frankly, more and more I want Saints players staying put in Northamptonshire and staying miles away from England for now....
Last week I found an old DVD with extended highlights of the England 2002 November Internationals, with games against the ABs, Wallabies (back when they were good), and the Boks (back when they were not so good). It was called 'World Beaters'. So watched the other day and it was very clear the success of the midfield pairing (Greenwood and Tindall) and how well they played together, almost intuitively knowing where to be. Haven't seen that from an England 12/13 jersey in a long time. I recall the skill and game awareness for both, but I had forgotten the extent they were completely compatible players, despite their completely different styles of play. Lot's of other interesting observations to see how things changed in 21 years, as well, which I will try to sum up at another time.
doctor_grey- Posts : 12251
Join date : 2011-04-30
Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Doc, I hope you had an enjoyable Christmas, this obviously was a bit tongue in cheek, but it is correct that an argument could be had for all of them as well as Litchfield.
The amazing thing from a Saints perspective is that all bar The Fin came through the Saints academy, Not doing so well in the forwards, but have the Waller brothers, Moon, Coles, Lawes, Lockett and Ludlum plus a few others that came very young.
The amazing thing from a Saints perspective is that all bar The Fin came through the Saints academy, Not doing so well in the forwards, but have the Waller brothers, Moon, Coles, Lawes, Lockett and Ludlum plus a few others that came very young.
WELL-PAST-IT- Posts : 3732
Join date : 2011-06-01
Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread
Is Dingwall an option at 12?
Geordie- Posts : 28818
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle
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