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England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread

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Post by Geordie Sat 16 Dec 2023, 7:57 pm

First topic message reminder :

2 tries for Hartley at 12 .

Fdjour decent first scrum then missed some tackles etc.
Sales two wingers Reed and Roebuck were very impressive....

Bath v Cardiff now...lots of potential England options here.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 29 Dec 2023, 5:46 pm

Geordie wrote:Is Dingwall an option at 12?
Yes, pardon my saying it like this, but he does go both ways.....

He has been dropped into the 13 role more than 12 because he can cover a lot of ground defensively as well as being able to make some hard yards.  Remember his nickname at Saints is M1 because of his 'two hard shoulders'.  And he is team captain this season and receiving high grades for his leadership.  

Recent other options at 12, like Hutchinson (a fine player and a terrific attacking player, but unfortunately learned defense at the O'Gara school of tackling) make it imperative to have a strong defender nearby.  And Hutch is a pure 12.

You would have likely seen Dingwall at 12 when Proctor was at 13.  Saints have more centre options this season so I think we will start to see Dinger at 12 more often now that Litchfield is starting to hit his stride and Burger Odendaal is finally healthy.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 29 Dec 2023, 5:57 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Doc, I hope you had an enjoyable Christmas, this obviously was a bit tongue in cheek, but it is correct that an argument could be had for all of them as well as Litchfield.

The amazing thing from a Saints perspective is that all bar The Fin came through the Saints academy, Not doing so well in the forwards, but have the Waller brothers, Moon, Coles, Lawes, Lockett and Ludlum plus a few others that came very young.
Yes, was a nice quiet holiday this year.  Hoping yours was as well.  

I know you were having a bit of fun with the Saints back line.  But the more I stared at what you wrote (I had a good chuckle), and the more it stared back at me, I had that evil genius moment when I realised England could do, and have done, a whole lot worse using so many of the usual suspects.  This really ain't bad:
09. Mitchell
10. Smith
11. Litchfield
12. Dingwall
13. Freeman
14. Sleightholme
15. Furbank

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT Fri 29 Dec 2023, 6:41 pm

Are there any other clubs that can put out a backline like that, it would be interesting to compare.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 29 Dec 2023, 8:14 pm

Quirke Ford roebuck tuilagi James Reed Carpenter?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 29 Dec 2023, 8:35 pm

Telegraph reporting Fin Smith has been guaranteed a place in the match day squad for Scotlands 6Ns campaign if he chooses them. Ffs.

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Post by Cumbrian Fri 29 Dec 2023, 8:50 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Telegraph reporting Fin Smith has been guaranteed a place in the match day squad for Scotlands 6Ns campaign if he chooses them. Ffs.

They've been trying to poach him for a couple of years and he has resisted, so don't see why he would change now.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 29 Dec 2023, 10:01 pm

Change of coach. The guarantee he'll get game time.

Wasn't aware that Feyi-Waboso was qualified to play for England either.

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Post by lostinwales Fri 29 Dec 2023, 10:06 pm

Tuilagi has done his groin again. Due to miss the start of the 6N but be back afterwards

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Post by Geordie Fri 29 Dec 2023, 10:09 pm

lostinwales wrote:Tuilagi has done his groin again. Due to miss the start of the 6N but be back afterwards

There's an echo in here....

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Post by Geordie Fri 29 Dec 2023, 10:10 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Change of coach. The guarantee he'll get game time.

Wasn't aware that Feyi-Waboso was qualified to play for England either.

Wo cares. Let him play for Wales.

Fin Smith will be in the England sqaud...apparently he's Naming a 50 man squad...then will reduce it down.

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Post by Cumbrian Fri 29 Dec 2023, 10:17 pm

He should play for Wales, I dislike this speculation, the lad is Welsh and he should play for them. Don't get me wrong, he is a fabulous player, but he isn't ours.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 29 Dec 2023, 10:19 pm

Don't you think he's good enough Geordie?would be stupid not to try and get him to play for us same with Smith. Warr and Roebuck also approached by Townsend in the last couple of weeks according to reports in Scotland. Could end up losing out on a good group there.

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Post by Geordie Fri 29 Dec 2023, 10:25 pm

Hss a good Player but so is...Sleightholme, Murley, OhC, Radwan, Stephens, Nick David, Cokasaniga, etc etc....

Reed....approached also...meh...let him go. Bar Fin, Roebuck is the only one id try to get but not at the expense of others. Freeman way better. Litchfield...is he a centre or wing.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 29 Dec 2023, 10:29 pm

And all so far ignored (bar H-C who got a few touches and was then dropped). I think Feyi-Waboso could be quite special...but yeah a couple of those named could be. Just need to be picked ahead of guys like May,Malins etc. And then obviously get the ball to them. For the dual qualified guys again we need to convince them and cap them ASAP.

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Post by Geordie Fri 29 Dec 2023, 10:39 pm

We only need to cap the dual qualified ones who are in positions we're struggling for.

Hence why...despite rating Roebuck and Reed very highly ...I'm not devastated. Warr...meh Quirke on form and firing is another level...and Mitchell has really earned that spot now and the 9 shirt is his to lose.

The only one I'd make sure is Fin Smith if he says yes for England.

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Post by Geordie Fri 29 Dec 2023, 10:40 pm

I see Earl is on the bench for this weekend...

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 29 Dec 2023, 10:48 pm

We should really have found the time already for.Smith. it's ridiculous we now have the chance to lose him.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 29 Dec 2023, 10:59 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Change of coach. The guarantee he'll get game time.

Wasn't aware that Feyi-Waboso was qualified to play for England either.

Borthwick had Fin Smith in the last 6N squad. Fin Smith also talked about having conversations with Borthwick before the season started. Sounds very much like Borthwick is making it known to Smith that he's part of his plans. He should be in the England Six Nations squad again when it's announced next week. Hopefully we can hold off the advances from Scotland.

I'd rather hope we can keep hold of Roebuck as well. He was actually born in Scotland but raised in Cheshire. He's big, powerful and I'm not sure I've seen a winger that will suit our game plan more than him this season. He looks for work, can finish (5 in 15 this season and 11 in 21 last season) and is a great kick chase option.

Feyi-Waboso definitely has some x-factor talent. If Wales do indeed move LRZ to fullback then with Adams and Feyi-Waboso they'd have a fun back three to attack with. Would be nice to ruin that but I suspect he'll opt for them.

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Post by Geordie Fri 29 Dec 2023, 11:08 pm

Sam
11 Murley / Sleightholme
14 Radwan
15 Josh Hodge

England can have a fun back 3 also....

Feyi-Waboso...meh nothing we haven't already got.

I'd keel Roebuck if we could...but I won't cry if he chooses Scotland.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Dec 2023, 6:22 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Change of coach. The guarantee he'll get game time.

Wasn't aware that Feyi-Waboso was qualified to play for England either.

Borthwick had Fin Smith in the last 6N squad. Fin Smith also talked about having conversations with Borthwick before the season started. Sounds very much like Borthwick is making it known to Smith that he's part of his plans. He should be in the England Six Nations squad again when it's announced next week. Hopefully we can hold off the advances from Scotland.

I'd rather hope we can keep hold of Roebuck as well. He was actually born in Scotland but raised in Cheshire. He's big, powerful and I'm not sure I've seen a winger that will suit our game plan more than him this season. He looks for work, can finish (5 in 15 this season and 11 in 21 last season) and is a great kick chase option.

Feyi-Waboso definitely has some x-factor talent. If Wales do indeed move LRZ to fullback then with Adams and Feyi-Waboso they'd have a fun back three to attack with. Would be nice to ruin that but I suspect he'll opt for them.

O'Flaherty. Them 2 and Steward stand out as a back 3 that could shine under Borthwick.

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Post by mountain man Sat 30 Dec 2023, 8:46 am

I cannot see Radwan being picked. Newcastle are in dire straits, he's been overlooked too many times previously before there were other options available and playing well so chances now are even less I'd say.


There are at least plenty of back three players now in form and asking to be selected.

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Post by Geordie Sat 30 Dec 2023, 9:42 am

Hiw Newcastle are doing is irrelevant if Radwan is still performing which generally he does.

He really needs to move on to a big club now...he deserves it..he's shown loyalty to us when others haven't.

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Post by mountain man Sat 30 Dec 2023, 9:44 am

You've somewhat contradicted yourself there then.
No question it's easier to shine in a winning team and be noticed.

Regardless, I'd be amazed if Borthwick selects him.

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Post by Geordie Sat 30 Dec 2023, 9:49 am

No I didn't...he's still performing in a woeful side...imagine him in a top side.

I know SB won't pick him but he should. He's a game changer.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 30 Dec 2023, 9:54 am

Geordie wrote:Sam
11 Murley  / Sleightholme
14 Radwan
15 Josh Hodge

England can have a fun back 3 also....

Feyi-Waboso...meh nothing we haven't already got.

I'd keel Roebuck if we could...but I won't cry if he chooses Scotland.

I don't rate Sleightholme as highly as you. His form and fitness is so up and down. Hendy at Saints has probably got more chance of making it at international level, he definitely has a bit of X factor about him.

Feyi-Waboso has the raw pace and step to rival Radwan. His break for Chiefs last night off the scrum reminded me a bit of peak Johnny May. Dancing back against the grain and then hitting the acceleration to go through the gap. He's got a lower centre of gravity and a bit more power that May had though.

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Post by mountain man Sat 30 Dec 2023, 9:54 am

If he played for say Bath he'd be in with shout but even then I wonder if he's the type of player Borthwick would pick.

Does he perform every match?

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Post by Geordie Sat 30 Dec 2023, 10:15 am

Pretty much...

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Post by mountain man Sat 30 Dec 2023, 10:17 am

So why then if you think playing for Newcastle is irrelevant to his chances of selection do you want him to move from what I assume is your home club? Surely you'd want to see him every home game.

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Post by Geordie Sat 30 Dec 2023, 10:28 am

mountain man wrote:So why then if you think playing for Newcastle is irrelevant to his chances of selection do you want him to move from what I assume is your home club? Surely you'd want to see him every home game.

Its irrelevant as clearly SB doesn't rate him.

I absolutely want to see him preforming every week for the falcons..but i also feel sorry for him, as you can see how frustrated he is and purely for him...and in a non selfish fan mode...I'd like to see him in a side that plays to his strength and not just rely on him performing magic every week.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 30 Dec 2023, 1:38 pm

Has Radwan developed any of the boring but essential for international rugby bits of his game like kick chase, kicking and ability under the high ball? We saw the Boks mercilessly pick on the young (and extremely talented) French winger during the world cup and effectively win the match based on mistakes he was forced into.

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Post by Geordie Sat 30 Dec 2023, 2:51 pm

Radwans kick chase has always been good...and he's is fine under the hugh ball.

His defence is often marked out as being worse than it Actually is .

But anyway he won't be picked so move on..next.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Dec 2023, 3:26 pm

Sounds like he's just scored a good try against saracens.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Dec 2023, 3:32 pm

Yeah. Nice footballer skills and extreme pace.

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Post by Geordie Sat 30 Dec 2023, 4:02 pm

Doesn't matter he's not not 6 foot 5 or catching a High ball is his number one skill.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Dec 2023, 4:08 pm

Very true.

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Post by Geordie Sat 30 Dec 2023, 4:30 pm

Furbanks top class abilities shine through again...

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Dec 2023, 4:32 pm

Lovely line wasn't it. And his top 2 per cent showing again making it a massively difficult kick. Roebuck a bit at sea.

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Post by Geordie Sat 30 Dec 2023, 4:50 pm

Freeman needs to be Involved in the match day squad for Italy.

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Post by Geordie Sat 30 Dec 2023, 5:00 pm

Furbank MOTM...class act...England squad beckons....

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Dec 2023, 5:25 pm

God I hope not. Would reckon that means Furbank isn't.

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Post by Geordie Sat 30 Dec 2023, 7:46 pm

Mercer playing himself out of contention for the squad...

Marcus surely has to be starting 10

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Dec 2023, 8:03 pm

Bit like with Radwan surely you go with Ford at 10 and Barbeary or Vunipola at 8?

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Post by mountain man Sun 31 Dec 2023, 8:58 am

Ford at 10 is OK although I'd like to see Smith M but either fine, seeing as Farrell not involved Ford almost certainly will be under Borthwick. Billy at 8 an absolute no. I want to see Barbeary and C-CS picked in wider squad at least. I was driving back from a few days away so missed Quins/Glos but I read Dombrandt out played Mercer? I know he's just back from injury though. However, although I was really keen for Dombrandt last year, his Eng games were grim on occasion so if he's Eng 8 I'd have some concern.

Radwan won't be on wing or anywhere else for Eng. Be great to see but seems rather unlikely.

I suspect it'll be Mitchell Ford at 9/10 with Smith M on bench but plenty time for form and injury to change things.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun 31 Dec 2023, 10:36 am

Geordie wrote:Mercer playing himself out of contention for the squad...

Marcus surely has to be starting 10

Mercer started the game well with some big tackles. Glaws inability to string phases together meant there's wasn't much of a contest and he struggled to get a foothold in the game. Dombrant turned up for the chip through from Care but otherwise I didn't really notice him, I was cooking whilst watching I didn't watch it in detail maybe missed something.

Not sure either did much to advance their causes.

Marcus Smith kicked nicely out of hand and sliced up the Glaws defence with apparent ease. Off the tee he was pretty bad though. Fin Smith showed maturity in mixing his game and playing the tactics for Saints, Ford looked to be finding some better form in that one as well. I still think my preference would be to start Fin Vs Italy with club mate Mitchell at 9, Marcus on the bench. If it goes badly then bring Ford back in for the Wales game.

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Post by Rugby Fan Sun 31 Dec 2023, 4:08 pm

Geordie wrote:Furbank MOTM...class act...England squad beckons....
Furbank shouldn't be dismissed just because he didn't make much of an impact first time around. Mike Brown looked like he would be too journeyman for Test rugby but made a mark because he was so consistent.

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Post by Geordie Sun 31 Dec 2023, 4:12 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
Geordie wrote:Furbank MOTM...class act...England squad beckons....
Furbank shouldn't be dismissed just because he didn't make much of an impact first time around. Mike Brown looked like he would be too journeyman for Test rugby but made a mark because he was so consistent.

I haven't dismissed him...I've been saying he could very well get a call up...its another who would blow his top if he was selected...in fact it might send him over the edge.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 31 Dec 2023, 6:36 pm

I'll dismiss him. He hasn't got the mental fortitude for it. He's basically Alex Goode. And given he's going for the 23 shirt there are about 4 or 5 better suited.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun 31 Dec 2023, 7:16 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
Geordie wrote:Furbank MOTM...class act...England squad beckons....
Furbank shouldn't be dismissed just because he didn't make much of an impact first time around. Mike Brown looked like he would be too journeyman for Test rugby but made a mark because he was so consistent.

Who are you dropping for him to get into the 23? He's a 10/15 and there's a number of better 10s and we have a settled 15. Is he versatile enough for the bench? I'm not sure.

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England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread - Page 4 Empty Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread

Post by Geordie Sun 31 Dec 2023, 7:45 pm

Well you can get rid of Malins for a start...

If there's a 50 man sqaud being named..Theresa good chance Furbank will be in

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England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread - Page 4 Empty Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread

Post by WELL-PAST-IT Sun 31 Dec 2023, 7:49 pm

Geordie wrote:Well you can get rid of Malins for a start...

If there's a 50 man sqaud being named..Theresa good chance Furbank will be in

Who is Theresa Good, any relation to Andy? England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread - Page 4 1f600
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England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread - Page 4 Empty Re: England Getting Four Wins in the Six Nations - A New Thread

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